VWER Meeting Transcripts by Virtual Worlds Education Roundtable is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivs 3.0 Unported License.
Based on a work at www.vwer.org.
VWER Meeting Transcripts by Virtual Worlds Education Roundtable is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivs 3.0 Unported License.
Based on a work at www.vwer.org.
Transcript of the Virtual Worlds Education Roundtable Meeting in VWER Grid, Feb. 2011
Photos by Olivia and Iggy. Join our VWER groups at Flickr and Koinup to add your own pictures!
AJ Kelton: so - lets go ahead and get started, officially I suppose
AJ Kelton: I'm amazed that we are sitting here
AJ Kelton: the very first meeting of the VWER@VWERGrid meeting
Joe Essid: :) 9 on sim for transcript
AJ Kelton: this is an amazing occasion and I'm so thrilled you guys are here to share it
Ann Steckel: see Iggy you didn't have to take off your shoes to count today. pappy will be disappointed.
Pathfinder.Lester : here comes Chimera!
AJ Kelton: and I'm also thrilled to have John and Jokay here to share this with us also
Jokay.Wollongong : Yay! so cool to be here ;)
AJ Kelton: this represents a corner for the VWER
:: Rawlslyn Francis enters VWERMain (now 11 visitors in this region)
AJ Kelton: and I hope to have meeting every two weeks or so
Joe Essid: we went to 11 :)
AJ Kelton: these won't be quite like the ones in SL - the regular weekly VWER meetings
AJ Kelton: we probably won't do roundtables, they will be more discussiony but also open
Chimera.Cosmos : Hiya!
AJ Kelton: since the groups will probably be small at first
AJ Kelton: and thats awesome
Chimera.Cosmos : Earlier, AJ and AJ and Chimera and Liz were all talking. heheh
AJ Kelton: and they will last longer also
Chimera.Cosmos : in here
AJ Kelton: we'll plan on 90 minutes, but break up when it just seems lke time
AJ Kelton: lol - yeah, that was funny
Chimera.Cosmos : got a snapshot
AJ Kelton: I have my MSU grid and this Avatar here
AJ Kelton: testing this move. it was fun
Joe Essid waves at Chimera and reminds her of the Flickr and Koinup groups for VWER :)
AJ Kelton: I actually had one opened in Imprudence and one in....
Kimmy Hescock: I will have to duck out at around the 60 min mark, just a warning
AJ Kelton: one of the other viewers
Chimera.Cosmos : eep - I usually remember when I get an invitation to submit a photo, but otherwise I kinda forget :-(
AJ Kelton: thats ok - like i said, this is loose
Kimmy Hescock: :)
Chimera.Cosmos : will try - keep on us Joe
Chimera.Cosmos : heheh
AJ Kelton: so - why don't we all add into local chat who we are
Chimera.Cosmos : Iggy
Joe Essid: :)
AJ Kelton: what we do
AJ Kelton: etc...
:: Wizard.Gynoid @reactiongrid.com:8008 enters VWERMain (now 12 visitors in this region)
Pathfinder.Lester : I'm Pathfinder Lester, John Lester in real life. I used to work at Linden Lab from 2005-2010. Now I work at ReactionGrid Inc. as Director of Community Development. I started the Hypergrid Adventurers Club back in October of 2010. My blog is at http://becunningandfulloftricks.com
Jokay.Wollongong : Yay.. hi Wizzy! ;)
AJ Kelton: you all know me, AJ Kelton, Director of Emerging Instructional Technology for the College of Humanities and Social Sciences at Montclair State University
Joe Essid: howdy Wiz
Pathfinder.Lester : heya Wizzy
Ann Steckel: Wizzy!
Chimera.Cosmos : I had to bring Liz some clothes from the Francogrid ski trip so she didn't look so noobish. LOL
AJ Kelton: Hey Wiz
Jokay.Wollongong : jokay Wollongong = jokaydiaGRID owner, facilitator of the jokaydia community of practice, edu techie, prim basher ;)
Wizard.Gynoid @reactiongrid.com:8008: hiya all
Chimera.Cosmos : hi Wiz
AJ Kelton: audiecnce member too
Ann Steckel: Ann Steckel aka Olivia Hotshot in other worlds - Cal Stat Univ, Chico, techie and math educator - long time VWER supporter and volunteer
Joe Essid: Joe Essid, aka Iggy over in SL, Writing Center Director, U of Richmond
AJ Kelton: Ann's being polite - she is an essential part of the VWER core
AJ Kelton: as is Joe
Ann Steckel: hey Wiz grab a seat by me!
Ann Steckel: hehe
Jerry Stapleton: Jerry Stapleton aka Jerod Bagley, University of Illinois at Chicago, forever noob
AJ Kelton: lol
Pathfinder.Lester : haha!
Jokay.Wollongong : arent we all Jerry! ;)
AJ Kelton: anyone else?
Ann Steckel: yeah jerry - a noob who designs huds
Liz Dorland: Liz Dorland, Washington U in St. Louis, but many years in chemistry at Mesa Community College in the Maricopa District in Phoenix area
Kimmy Hescock: <-- RL name, Wrenaria Antiesse is typically virtual me, virtual world builder/visual info designer from Oregon State University
Liz Dorland: But Chimera is the main avatar ;-)
AJ Kelton: \o/
Rawlslyn Francis: <--RL name. Elphaba Helendale in SL. Assistant Professor of Language Arts at Florida State College at Jacksonville
Azzura.Supplee : Azzura Supplee - Jokays Number 1 - without the red shirt and beard
AJ Kelton: lol
Ann Steckel: ha!
Kimmy Hescock: I still feel weird being not wrenaria in a vw O_o
Jokay.Wollongong : hehe.. Az = essential jokaydiaGRID team member... my head would explode without her! ;)
AJ Kelton: Yes, an important decision VWER made, and now MSU made as well
Liz Dorland: me too -- very weird
AJ Kelton: and that was to use RL names
Liz Dorland: so we both came heheh
Joe Essid: true. Iggy is me but just more of me :)
AJ Kelton: how do you feel about that.....
:: Talvin.Muircastle enters VWERMain (now 13 visitors in this region)
Pathfinder.Lester : Why have you decided to use RL names?
Chimera.Cosmos : It's an AJ thing ;-)
Pathfinder.Lester : :P
Jokay.Wollongong : Hiya Talvin! ;)
Chimera.Cosmos : credibility?
AJ Kelton: good question....because of a sense of the purpose of the grids
Talvin.Muircastle waves. :)
AJ Kelton: yes - - MSU was definitely that
AJ Kelton: and it was not even my decision
Joe Essid: will it help attract RL colleagues, perhaps? Seems important to some of mine.
AJ Kelton: one of the Associate Deans insisted on it
Jokay.Wollongong : Interesting.. im heading in the other direction.. get introduced by my av name irl ALOT! ;)
AJ Kelton: and to take away the "fake"ness
Pathfinder.Lester : makes sense to me
Chimera.Cosmos : I'm skeptical that colleagues who are too nervous about that sort of thing will really "get" the power of VWs
AJ Kelton: John, you've been Pathfinder for so long
AJ Kelton: its like Sarah Robbins and Intellagirl
Pathfinder.Lester : yeah, i'm totally stuck with it :P
Ann Steckel: Jokay - i hear ya - at conferences people know Olivia but not Ann
AJ Kelton: its part of who you are
AJ Kelton: you too Jokay
AJ Kelton: although JoKay is actually part of your rl name, right?
Kimmy Hescock: Ann: that was true of me when we met, lol
Jokay.Wollongong : yeah that's right... i am actually Joanna Kay.. so its not too far a leap ;)
Chimera.Cosmos : Sometimes I forget folks RL names
Joe Essid: The Director of our Center for Tech & Learning calls me Iggy on campus....it just happens after a while
Kimmy Hescock: i remember the collective "OOOHHH" when you said your SL name
Pathfinder.Lester : well, you're starting a new grid, a whole new world here. so it's good to start out with new policies like that.
Chimera.Cosmos : since I call them the SL name so much more
Ann Steckel: @Kinny - i hear ya!! cause i want to call you wren now - even in person
Talvin.Muircastle has been Talvin for about 16 years now.
Jokay.Wollongong : You will always be Iggy to me, Joe! teehee ;)
Joe Essid: :)
Chimera.Cosmos : me too Iggy
Kimmy Hescock: Ann: it's okay, my dad like to call me wrenaria due to my twitter name now
Ann Steckel: Kimmy* (sorry this is my 5th back to back meeting today - i am fried)
AJ Kelton: we also plan to bring grade school teachers and kids in
AJ Kelton: the kids will NOT have their real names
AJ Kelton: first names, yes
AJ Kelton: last names will be the name of their school
Pathfinder.Lester : good idea
Jokay.Wollongong : Interesting AJ.. has been a topic of discussion for our historygrid project with schools in aus too..
Chimera.Cosmos : like a family
AJ Kelton: protect their privacy
Joe Essid: I think we often craft avatars who reflect part of who we are IRL...some aspect we can emphasize...like me poking Prok with a stick. I'd do that IRL too
Jokay.Wollongong : Group names via school is a great idea ;)
Ann Steckel: hah!!
Ann Steckel hands ig a BIG stick
Jokay.Wollongong : teehee
Azzura.Supplee : just poke?
:: Jeff LeBlanc enters VWERMain (now 14 visitors in this region)
AJ Kelton: you are welcome to beat her with it, not poke
Liz Dorland: Iggy and Prok *grin*
AJ Kelton: lol
AJ Kelton: ROFL
AJ Kelton: funny
AJ Kelton: wow - 14 on the sim
Pathfinder.Lester : oh, speaking of groups....AJ, have you created a group on this grid for the roundtable meeting attendees?
Joe Essid: yay
AJ Kelton: we're pushing a record here
Joe Essid: 14
Ann Steckel: that is what IGGY would do - don't ask what Pappy would do.
Jokay.Wollongong : go vwergrid go! ;)
Liz Dorland: more flying in
AJ Kelton: i didn't know I could
Kimmy Hescock: :)
AJ Kelton: are groups enabled on our sims already?
Joe Essid: Pappy is going to propose marriage to Prok for the Alphaville Herald
Pathfinder.Lester : try it out!
Rawlslyn Francis: (Yes, it's exciting to see "so many" here tonight. :) )
Pathfinder.Lester : i *think* they are enabled
Ann Steckel: i thought groups were still defunct
AJ Kelton: in the old viewr, I forget how! LOL
Jeff LeBlanc: Hi everyone
Pathfinder.Lester : ReactionGrid added some new group code a little while ago
Ann Steckel: would be great if they were enabled for land use esp
Joe Essid: so seriously...is there a viewer 2 ready for OpenSim grids?
Talvin.Muircastle has the dubious honor of being the first non-admin to create a group in JokaydiaGrid, he is told.
AJ Kelton: nope - still requires 1Linden
Jokay.Wollongong : Communicate > Groups.. if its been installed you'll be able to make a new one.. we got it setup a little while back. super handy for group meetings like this
Jokay.Wollongong : Yes... go talvin ;)
AJ Kelton: soi I guess its not enabled yet
Ann Steckel: just tried making a group and nada
AJ Kelton: thats ok - we'll get there.
Joe Essid: way to go, Talvin. I need to make one for Usher
AJ Kelton: I'd love groups, would make it easier for me to communicate with the ELI folks
Rawlslyn Francis is Online
Pathfinder.Lester : i'll ask Kyle about getting the group code enabled here
Pathfinder.Lester : i guess it wasn't rolled out here yet
Ann Steckel: would be super, Path!
Liz Dorland: Who is here from ELI AJ?
AJ Kelton: ok - so, not ELI as in Educause Learning Initiative
:: Budd Turner enters VWERMain (now 15 visitors in this region)
AJ Kelton: our ELI is the Educators Land Initiative
AJ Kelton: I realized only after that that was going to be an issue
AJ Kelton: 15 - we've def. set a record
AJ Kelton: hey budd
Pathfinder.Lester : woohoo!
Jokay.Wollongong : hiya Budd ;)
AJ Kelton: ok - so here is some trivia
Wizard Gynoid is Online
Rawlslyn Francis: Welcome, Budd
AJ Kelton: we now have more people in the VEWRGrid's first meeting than we did at the very first VWER meeting 3 years ago
Pathfinder.Lester : and 6 of us are hypergridded in here.
Joe Essid: hiya Budd. Thanks for helping us set a record!
Pathfinder.Lester : AJ, oh wow
Budd Turner: G'Day
Pathfinder.Lester : that's awesome. :)
Rawlslyn Francis: that's awesome, AJ!
Kimmy Hescock: go us!
AJ Kelton: hows that!
Kimmy Hescock: :)
Joe Essid sees the future :)
Pathfinder.Lester : that totally rocks
AJ Kelton: hey - don't miss our meeting in SL on March 3rd, I think
AJ Kelton: its our special monthly meeting
Wizard.Gynoid @reactiongrid.com:8008: this is the future.
AJ Kelton: Joe, Ann, Evelyn and I will be the guests
Jokay.Wollongong : Yaaaay.. congratulations VWER team!
AJ Kelton: and Fleep Tuque is going to talk to us about the 3 year journey that has been VWER
AJ Kelton: i know - thre years of uninterrupted meetings - every week
AJ Kelton: and a transcript history to prove it
Joe Essid: and don't forget Ev is leading us this TH: Nice topic, considering this meeting. "Which grid for me? - pros and when choosing VW grids for teaching"
Jokay.Wollongong : huge achievement!
AJ Kelton: that library, which we just protected by CC licensing
AJ Kelton: is a real history of edu in VWs
AJ Kelton: but we're not the only one setting records
AJ Kelton: John - you recently completed a major change
AJ Kelton: bringing your edu cred to RG
AJ Kelton: :-)
AJ Kelton: and Jo, you've exploded here on your own grid
Joe Essid bows to the best landlady in any possible world :D
Rawlslyn Francis: woot Jokay!
Pathfinder.Lester : ty for the kind words AJ
Jokay.Wollongong : Awww.. thanks Joe... we're having a great time growing jokaydia... hit the 1000 resident mark just recently. which is SUPER exciting
AJ Kelton: well - John, you and I have talked at length
AJ Kelton: so - John, whats the deal with all this
AJ Kelton: are we just flopping around
Pathfinder.Lester : lol
AJ Kelton: will this always remain a niche?
AJ Kelton: a fun tool thats on the periphery
Pathfinder.Lester : you mean virtual worlds in general, right?
Budd Turner is Online
AJ Kelton: yup
Pathfinder.Lester : are they destined to be niche forever?
AJ Kelton: ypu
Pathfinder.Lester : well, for now, I think so.
Pathfinder.Lester : and y'know, that's *OK*
Pathfinder.Lester : many amazing things are niche
AJ Kelton nods
Joe Essid: Path, you think our defense & aerospace guys were too optimistic, then?
Pathfinder.Lester : but I do think that, ultimately, virtual worlds will become very ubiquitous.
Pathfinder.Lester : BUT....
Joe Essid: They predict haptic interfaces and hologram-like VR very soon.
Pathfinder.Lester : I think this depends on another different line of tech. Augmented Reality.
AJ Kelton: right
AJ Kelton: i'd agree
Pathfinder.Lester : i came up with a metaphor the other day about all this
AJ Kelton: hit us with it
Pathfinder.Lester : think back to the invention of the automobile.
Pathfinder.Lester : when autos first came out, they were niche. primarily because, there were not decent ROADS.
Jokay.Wollongong : For broad use i think both augmented reality and mobile accessibility have got to be drivers... agrees.. we're kinda missing the road ;)
Pathfinder.Lester : once the network of nicely paved highways and roads became ubiquitous across the world, THEN the automobile became an essential part of society.
Joe Essid: remember the PBS show about the first cross-continental road-trip, "Horatio's Drive"--1903.
Pathfinder.Lester : so virtual worlds are like the first autos. and all we have right now are dirt horse and buggy pathways. :P
Chimera.Cosmos : (belatedly agrees with Iggy about Jokay's Landlord Rulership)
AJ Kelton: how important is social interface, like with Facebook or Twitter?
Jokay.Wollongong : (aww thanks chim!) ;)
AJ Kelton: Joe just posted an interesting blog about that
AJ Kelton: (what to post the link, Joe?)
Chimera.Cosmos : I communicate with SL friends and colleagues constantly on FB and twitter
Joe Essid: I'll snag it
Ann Steckel: Joe - i am grabbing some images for you
Jokay.Wollongong : I think when we try to measure virtual worlds with the same yard stick as Facebook/twitter we miss the point... i connect with my community in both enviros.. for diff reasons
Joe Essid: http://iggyo.blogspot.com/2011/02/hamlet-aol-facebook-and-sl.html
Joe Essid: thanks, Ann.
Jerry Stapleton: Once browser-based VWs and VW mobile apps become available on a widespread basis, look out!
Pathfinder.Lester : i think Facebook and Twitter are useful technologies. but completely different beasts compared to VWs.
Joe Essid: Hamlet Au and I argue about this a bit...FB integration.
Ann Steckel: @Jerry - i agree.
AJ Kelton: i agree
Pathfinder.Lester : if i hear FB integration one more time, I'm going to blow up.
Chimera.Cosmos : I don't care if it's integrated or not -- we found each other there anyhow
AJ Kelton: lol
AJ Kelton: I'm not sure I want to be integrate
Chimera.Cosmos : most of them use avatar names -- well, maybe half
AJ Kelton: I use these tools for different purposes
Pathfinder.Lester : everyone always tries to hitch their wagons to things that are taking off. but it doesn't always make sense.
Ann Steckel: Their is no water cooler effect on FB like you get in VW - the collaboration and communication are different
Joe Essid: LOL Path...yeah, two different approaches. FB augments, this immerses
Chimera.Cosmos : I have at least 150 avatar-friends on FB
Pathfinder.Lester : Joe, precisely.
AJ Kelton: great point joe (again!)
AJ Kelton misses his mystitable
Pathfinder.Lester : FB augments your broad social network, and allows a sensory-level awareness of your entire social network. so does twitter.
AJ Kelton: twitter is more of an echo chamber, don't ya think?
Talvin.Muircastle coughs. "As I said in NWN: 'Yes, Grandma, that girl with Kajira over her head is my new girlfriend. My Boss asked the same thing. So did one of my clients." Um, no FB integration, please....
Joe Essid: thanks, AJ. Hamlet just does not want this technology to vanish. But he's willing to cheapen the experience, IMHO. Blue Mars has "withered" (my term) to IMVU with a better interface, for mobile phones.
Pathfinder.Lester : AJ, that's a very good way to put it. "echo chamber" :)
Jokay.Wollongong : Lolz talvin ;)
Jerry Stapleton: yes "awareness" is not necessarily "immersion" or engagement.
Chimera.Cosmos : Blue Mars worlds were too separate
Pathfinder.Lester : Jerry, exactly!
Joe Essid: Lebanese approach to Twitter: Flog your blog :)
AJ Kelton: I use PING.FM to post to all my networks at once
Chimera.Cosmos : not a single world
AJ Kelton: see - I think the world needs to be integrated, if you WANT them to be
Chimera.Cosmos : and no Mac client meant I hardly ever went to Blue Mars
AJ Kelton: I'm sure that someone in SL would love to post to their FB account statust from in world
AJ Kelton: anyway - I find FB give a much better quality of response than Twitter
Joe Essid: LOL @Tavin..exactly. It's the "why does that man have a raccoon head" moment.
AJ Kelton: anyway - I have a question
AJ Kelton: its kind of open
Pathfinder.Lester loves it when AJ asks questions
Chimera.Cosmos : I don't really like folks who can't deal with complexity and diversity ;-)
AJ Kelton: do virtual worlds cause too much cognitive load to make them truly viable in education?
AJ Kelton: i don't mean that we CAN do things with them
Chimera.Cosmos : too boring
AJ Kelton: obviously we can
AJ Kelton: but are we reducing the learning, at first, by bringing students too close to cognitive overload?
Chimera.Cosmos : pfffft
Chimera.Cosmos : cognitive load
Pathfinder.Lester : hmmmm
Chimera.Cosmos : behaviourist concept
AJ Kelton: explain, liz
Pathfinder.Lester : i don't really like the term "cognitive overload" either
AJ Kelton: (said the cognitive load theorist)
Joe Essid: ah, hold their tiny hands and they'll be fine. We found they did okay in my colleague's class with a bit of one-on-on orientation and some defined tasks.
AJ Kelton: joe - hold that thought - not what I meant
Chimera.Cosmos : the "inventor" of cognitive load - Sweller - thought that images intefered with learning
AJ Kelton: one thing at a time, if we can....john, one sec
Joe Essid holds that thought :)
AJ Kelton: no he did not
Chimera.Cosmos : I worked with a guy who was doing a PhD with him back in 1999
Chimera.Cosmos : when we were on sabbatical in Sydney
AJ Kelton: some of the principle that developed from his theories say that when using graphics, you can cause GREATER load - than, l....ok - we can chat about this off line
Chimera.Cosmos : we used chemistry - net ionic equations in solution - for the materials
AJ Kelton: too detailed for text chat
AJ Kelton: and off topic
Pathfinder.Lester : lol
Chimera.Cosmos : awww...my favorite subject ;-)
AJ Kelton: john - why don't you like cognitive overload?
Pathfinder.Lester : hmmm
AJ Kelton: we'll take it back up again, Chim - :-)
Ann Steckel thinks this is REALLY niche =)
Chimera.Cosmos : those "multimedia principles" turn out to be fairly reductionist too
Chimera.Cosmos : but so many folks swallowed them whole ugh
AJ Kelton: i agree on some
Pathfinder.Lester : i find the phrase to be too broad. so broad that I find it kind of useless.
Pathfinder.Lester : i like specifics.
Pathfinder.Lester : and the human brain is capable of many many different kinds of processing.
AJ Kelton: well - everyone hits overload at a different point
Pathfinder.Lester : to lump it all together into "cognition" is a bit much in my opinion.
AJ Kelton: thats one of the problems. :-)
AJ Kelton nods
Pathfinder.Lester : i have an example
Pathfinder.Lester : i'll explain.....
AJ Kelton: ok
Chimera.Cosmos : thinking Pathfinder agrees with me even tho we said it differently heheh
Pathfinder.Lester : when many people say "my brain is overloaded!"....what the very often mean is that they are trying to do many different things at the same time.
AJ Kelton: you're both scientists
AJ Kelton: agreed - but that is not cognitive overload
Pathfinder.Lester : and the human brain can't "multitask." not like computers.
AJ Kelton: actually - the human brain works exactly like computers, doesn't it?
Pathfinder.Lester : :P
AJ Kelton: one process at a time, just very quickly
Pathfinder.Lester : well, not like multi-CPU computers. ;)
AJ Kelton: the problem with the human mind, is it can go off the prgram any time it wants
AJ Kelton: :-)
Chimera.Cosmos : like using your car - steer, gas pedel, watch road, talk to passenger, listen to radio -- we do that kind of thing all the time
AJ Kelton: daydreaming
AJ Kelton: mind wandering
Pathfinder.Lester : Chimera, yes! the brain can concurrently do simple things that most often involve muscle memory, too.
Wizard.Gynoid @reactiongrid.com:8008 watches pathfinder and jokay typing like mad. :-))
AJ Kelton: (we'll get back to virtual worlds, promise)
Jokay.Wollongong : I'm thinking about my Halo playing, ipod wearing, IM sending 16yo students .. *agrees with Chim* ;)
Joe Essid: @Path, thank you. I try telling writers that constantly. They think they can multitask instead of switching poorly between tasks.
Pathfinder.Lester : anyone who cooks knows what I mean.
Pathfinder.Lester : but when you try to jump between tasks that require higher cortical processing. that require high levels of attention. then you lose it.
AJ Kelton nods
Pathfinder.Lester : anyway, that's my 2 cents on it. :P
AJ Kelton: awesome
Chimera.Cosmos : you hit on a key point (one of you) - practice and repetition automates even complex things after awhile
AJ Kelton: so - let me tell you why I ask, and then we can get back to virtual worlds
Chimera.Cosmos : like watching text chat in SL
AJ Kelton: I'm writing about social applications, which includes sames, virtual environments, social media
AJ Kelton: and the load they place on the learning process as my dissertation
AJ Kelton: but not as strict CogLoad perspective
AJ Kelton: sot hat is why I asked
AJ Kelton: :-)
Chimera.Cosmos : that's good :-)
AJ Kelton: so - let me rephrase my question
Chimera.Cosmos : Sweller = "a crock" according to a very prominent Learning Sciences friend of mine from the visualization community heheh
Ann Steckel looks around the room and waits til the popcorn gets handed out
AJ Kelton: my original equation
AJ Kelton: really - one theorist calling another names
AJ Kelton: oh my
Joe Essid hands Ann a glass of wine.
Chimera.Cosmos : you haven't met Sweller! hahahah
AJ Kelton: I'm shocked SHOCKED there's gambling going on in this establishment
AJ Kelton: lol - no, but I have talked to him
Ann Steckel clinks glasses with Ig
Kimmy Hescock thinks popcorn sounds delicious
AJ Kelton: I study Jan Plass, anyway
AJ Kelton: I study WITH him
AJ Kelton: anyway
Pathfinder.Lester : this is a very spicy meeting. i like it.
AJ Kelton: lol
Chimera.Cosmos : I've seen him debate at AERA -- and he is very, very conservative in his views - prefers direct instruction
AJ Kelton: yup - i know
Joe Essid: getting some good snapshots, too, for the record.
Chimera.Cosmos : hates anything with constructivist taint
AJ Kelton: when I asked him if anyone ever studies what I was consdering he said no
AJ Kelton: so I"m kinda the first
AJ Kelton: not sure if that is good or not
AJ Kelton: but
AJ Kelton: although Brian Nelson at ASU talked about CL and VWs
AJ Kelton: great article, if you're interested
Pathfinder.Lester : i'd like to read it
Chimera.Cosmos : I know Brian -- he's in the viz community too
Joe Essid: @Chimera, Ken Bruffee's Social Constructivist pedagogy does make sense in writing instruction...but may be diff from what we are discussing
AJ Kelton: anyway - back to my question
AJ Kelton: all of this stuff forces our brain to "do' things
AJ Kelton: some things are easier than others
AJ Kelton: does using a virtual world cost too m uch brainwork
AJ Kelton: at first
Pathfinder.Lester : if you're a total noob, then yeah
Rawlslyn Francis: It depends on the person.
AJ Kelton: which most students are
Chimera.Cosmos : it's like Sweller with his "learn better w/o images" thing
Pathfinder.Lester : if you're spending most of your time fighting the interface, yeah.
AJ Kelton: yes - thats true too Rawlslyn
Chimera.Cosmos : if what you are teaching IS to interpret visual things, it makes NO sense
Pathfinder.Lester : but once you are comfortable enough with VWs and the screen simply becomes a window to another reality, then i think that issue disappears.
AJ Kelton: agreed - like any tool though
Rawlslyn Francis: agree w/ Pathfinder
AJ Kelton: we can say the same about SPSS
Joe Essid: so does getting off the plane at Barajas Airport in Madrid, then finding the Metro to downtown. You fight visual, auditory, and even haptic inputs that are all new to you. You are immersed.
Jokay.Wollongong : But doesnt that come back to a) good design of noob experiences and b) clear reasons for being in a 3d space
AJ Kelton: but that freaking hard
AJ Kelton: lol
Pathfinder.Lester : i'm a diver. and when you start diving, all you can think about is all the equipment on your body and how to use it.
Chimera.Cosmos : yes, any tool we use has a learning curve
Chimera.Cosmos : otherwise it's too simplistic to be of much use
Pathfinder.Lester : but over time, you forget about it all. and you just experience the underwater world.
AJ Kelton: learning curve +cog load, btw
AJ Kelton: not + =
Rawlslyn Francis: like learning to drive a car
AJ Kelton: schemata
Chimera.Cosmos : cog load is a more specific concept
Pathfinder.Lester : Rawlslyn, exactly.
Talvin.Muircastle : I don't know about other universities, but my Alma Mater gave a "University 101" course to incoming freshmen. (Though they, for reasons obscure, had to make it University 1050 later). If a University is going to embrace the use of Virtual Worlds, make an intro to them part of UNIV101 when the grade is based on just logging in and doing it.
Chimera.Cosmos : people apply cognitive load ideas when trying to break down how learning curves work
AJ Kelton: thats a great idea, Ralvin
Joe Essid: ever been to a Latin American market or the Grand Bazaar in Istanbul? You gotta use good filters or you get overloaded by all the inputs.
Pathfinder.Lester : Chimera, ah ok. gotcha.
AJ Kelton: we have Freshman Experience here
Rawlslyn Francis: Yes, We have that course - "Student Life Skills 1103"
Kimmy Hescock: people students - learn how to use more difficult software than VWs every day
Kimmy Hescock: ever glanced at the menus in Maya?
Chimera.Cosmos : absolutely Kimmy!
Kimmy Hescock shrugs
AJ Kelton: Liz, exactly
Chimera.Cosmos : but no one would suggest you don't learn those things
Joe Essid: students need to *want* to learn it, Kimmy. That's the problem in my experience.
AJ Kelton: students don't WANT to learn
AJ Kelton: they WANT a grade
AJ Kelton: the WANT a diploma
Joe Essid: tsk tsk AJ
Rawlslyn Francis: If my students were excited about using a VW, the interface wasn't a problem, they sailed through it. The students who were resistant had trouble throughout. It's in their approach to it.
AJ Kelton: they don't WANT to learn, most stuff at least
AJ Kelton: and I don't mean grads either
Rawlslyn Francis: exactly, Joe
AJ Kelton: I'm strictly speaking undergrad
Chimera.Cosmos : yes, it's like Intellagirl says -- her courses were always oversubscribed in SL because of how well she used the environment
AJ Kelton: hey - I don't say its good - but its true
Joe Essid: some just need some encouragement. Back to my orientation for Lee's class. They *loved* Usher but needed a guide at first in the new environment.
Talvin.Muircastle : I think that is overgeneralization. However, they are under pressure to *get the grade*, not to learn, per se.
Chimera.Cosmos : scaffolding is what some call that
Chimera.Cosmos : makes sense
Ann Steckel: Students don't want any tech that gets in the way of their A
Jokay.Wollongong : Agrees with Joe... if there is good reason to learn to use the interface - ie the task at hand is enaging or the use of the virtual world clearly fits with the context of the course its not a problem.... frustration sets in when students begin to ask the 'why are we hear, this doesnt work' questions
AJ Kelton: reality is most students are in college (undergrad) to get a degree so they can get a good job, not to "learn" something
Pathfinder.Lester : i think it all comes down to the trick of truly using VWs in ways that truly augment what exactly you are trying to *teach*
Pathfinder.Lester : a lot of VW education work i see is not augmenting. it's, at best, embellishing.
Joe Essid: right...a cynical calculus for some...how much work needed to reap the reward?
Rawlslyn Francis: Yes, AJ, but it's my job to push them past that belief. If I'm excited about it and explain the value, I win *most* of them over.
Chimera.Cosmos : exactly true Rawlslyn
Pathfinder.Lester : the House of Usher comes to my mind as a great example of augmenting. :)
Joe Essid: @AJ, I admit I work at a different sort of school. Most non-Business majors here are here for the experience, not the credentials.
AJ Kelton: it is the job of a good education, yes - and I'm proud to say that I think educators who are willing to use vw are some of the best I've ever seen
Chimera.Cosmos : true for teaching anything "hard" - chemistry comes to mind hehe
AJ Kelton: lol
AJ Kelton: So - Jokay, this has exploded for you
AJ Kelton: and you have a lot of educators
AJ Kelton: how did that happen?
Rawlslyn Francis: most of them love hearing "Oh, you're cutting edge!" hehe
Kimmy Hescock: I am not typically an instructor, so my experience with the classroom aspect is limited - my experiences with it so far have only been positive though, so.... I'm not sure what to say, lol
Chimera.Cosmos : Jokay has shepherded so many projects in VWs that use the environment to great advantage
AJ Kelton: shes an amazing leader
Jokay.Wollongong : Lolz AJ.. i think it was partly timing... jokaydia got a head start on opensim..
Chimera.Cosmos : helped the educators get things going
Joe Essid: Jokay has ethos. There was no Q but I'd want to put Usher over in her grid.
Jokay.Wollongong : Motivated by policy struggles, and also a desire to explore open source.. which is a personal interest anyway..
AJ Kelton: why educators, though - there were tons of communities put out by the lack of support for community
Jokay.Wollongong : Its been a fabulous ride watching opensim develop over the last year.
Chimera.Cosmos : Jokay IS an educator
AJ Kelton: what are your other major demographics?
AJ Kelton: it has
Rawlslyn Francis: Jokay is successful because she's so dam* positive and motivating. People want to be on this journey with her. It's contagious.
Budd Turner: It's a good thing Jokay's not here to hear all this stuff about her…might make her self conscious
Pathfinder.Lester : i agree with Rawlslyn :)
Chimera.Cosmos : yes, personality is important for a leader
Joe Essid agrees with Rawlslyn
AJ Kelton: agrees with everyone who is agreeing with Rawlslyn
Rawlslyn Francis: Just like the classroom: a nurturing environment always produces results in the classroom
Jokay.Wollongong : Aww *blush*... the energy that all educators bring to jokaydiagrid and opensim in general is inspiring..
Chimera.Cosmos : and Jokay also practices what she preaches - re: Community of Practice
Joe Essid rezzes a piano and drops it on AJ :P
Rawlslyn Francis: exactly, Chimera
Rawlslyn Francis: and she is available
Rawlslyn Francis: Twitter, FB, virtual worlds, Google Buzz - she's everywhere
AJ Kelton: yeah - but not all educators, though, Jo - you've attracted quite the postiive lot
AJ Kelton: you, for the most part, don't have many of the SLED crowd
Jokay.Wollongong : I see a movement of educators who want to share and support each other.. its really a joy to work with you all ;)
Jokay.Wollongong : And i have to say.. that stems from the core group of jokaydians who have been part of our work since 07 too..
Chimera.Cosmos : I chose Jokaydia in 2008 because I wanted to be with an international crowd, not the folks I saw all the time
AJ Kelton: how many sims do you have now?
Jokay.Wollongong : people like Chimera, Dean, Pandora, Sapphy, Az and many others have helped to create a community vibe ...
Rawlslyn Francis: good point, Chimera.
Jokay.Wollongong : At the moment we're running about 80 sims..
Talvin.Muircastle chose Jokaydia because life without poking Pathfinder is dull. Oh, wait, did I say that out loud?
Chimera.Cosmos : TAFE mixed with university mixed with all sorts of colleges and practitioners
Ann Steckel: Folks, i need to scram. Thanks for a great meeting and wizzy - thanks for the parting gift. =)
Pathfinder.Lester : Talvin, lol
Rawlslyn Francis: bye Ann:)
AJ Kelton: lol
Wizard.Gynoid @reactiongrid.com:8008: cya ann
Ann Steckel: See you all soon!
Jokay.Wollongong : and i think this morning we hit 1050 accounts.. so growth is super
Kimmy Hescock: I have to duck out as well, unfortunately
AJ Kelton: bye ann
Jokay.Wollongong : *Waves* to anne ;)
Joe Essid: tc Ann
Talvin.Muircastle : Enjoy the popcorn. :)
AJ Kelton: i missed it - how many sims?
Kimmy Hescock: thanks for all the fun
Rawlslyn Francis: Bye, Kimmy
Ann Steckel is Offline
:: Ann Steckel leaves VWERMain (back to 14 visitors in this region)
Jokay.Wollongong : About 80 ;)
AJ Kelton: wow
AJ Kelton: amazing
:: Kimmy Hescock leaves VWERMain (back to 13 visitors in this region)
Chimera.Cosmos : typist spouse says beef stew is ready, but avatars will stay here to collect chat log heheh
Joe Essid: see you soon Kimmy... Wrenaria :)
AJ Kelton: and what's next?
AJ Kelton: where is the jokay ship headed?
AJ Kelton: what is your next goal or project?
Azzura.Supplee : she crashed
Rawlslyn Francis: (Pathfinder and AJ are super supportive too! Always available for help! That's why we're here tonight.)
Liz Dorland: still see her
Pathfinder.Lester : her brain exploded with great ideas
AJ Kelton: lol
AJ Kelton: cognitive overload
Pathfinder.Lester : ha!
Rawlslyn Francis: LOL
Liz Dorland: Pathfinder and Jokay on the same grid...awesome!
AJ Kelton: it is an honor to me that they would be here for the first
Pathfinder.Lester : i looked at many different grids when I was looking for a home
Liz Dorland: that's one of the reasons that Spiral and I went ahead and got a Jokaydiagrid sim in addition to our SL Jokaydia property
Pathfinder.Lester : found jokaydiagrid, and have been very happy. :)
Joe Essid: @Liz...the neighbors at Jokaydia Grid keep me working hard. It's an inspiring place to do work.
Wizard.Gynoid @reactiongrid.com:8008: this is such a great example of why the open sims and hypergrid are the future.
AJ Kelton: Path, whats on your wish list?
Liz Dorland: Jokaydia in SL was very much the same
Pathfinder.Lester : oooh, it's always a loooong list....
Liz Dorland: it's not about the grid, it's about the company ;-)
AJ Kelton: whats at the top
Pathfinder.Lester : right now, my biggest wish is for the different incompatible versions of hypergrid protocols to be resolved.
Talvin.Muircastle is keeping Jokay "in the loop" with a running log.
Liz Dorland: should say IS the same -- Jokay still has Jokaydia
Joe Essid: did we say so many nice things about Jokay that we made her crash?
Pathfinder.Lester : we need all the grids to be compatible, hypergrid-wise, before we'll really see things taking off.
AJ Kelton: true
:: Jokay.Wollongong enters VWERMain (now 13 visitors in this region)
AJ Kelton: do you think we'll EVER connect to the "main" grid?
Pathfinder.Lester : things will get sorted out. we're just in a not-so-great place at the moment.
Wizard.Gynoid @reactiongrid.com:8008: wb jokay
Pathfinder.Lester : AJ, that is my 2nd wish. ;)
Jokay.Wollongong : Woot..*Recovers* ;)
AJ Kelton: :)
Pathfinder.Lester : that SL will decide to play ball with hypergrid
Joe Essid: You know how I flog this issue, but if LL would have continued interoperability, we'd have the Linden Dollar and SL Marketplace working across grids (Path, no need to comment on that :)
AJ Kelton: well - its kinda part of the first one, too
Chimera.Cosmos : the RG folks don't want an economy
AJ Kelton: they don't seem to be going in that background
Chimera.Cosmos : their model is for education - share and share alike
Pathfinder.Lester : but, you know, I think LL will ignore interconnectivity at their own peril.
AJ Kelton: and more and more people are starting to use my AOl analogy, which I got into a fight with Claudia about over 2 years ago
Wizard.Gynoid @reactiongrid.com:8008: it's survival of the fittest. if open sims are more fit they will prevail.
Pathfinder.Lester : in the end, the hypergrid will grow beyond SL. and if SL is not part of that, it's a real loss to that grid in terms of its long-term viability, in my opinion.
Chimera.Cosmos : I hope they both survive
AJ Kelton: no economy - but we need someplace to be able to go and buy thing and bring them back here with us
Chimera.Cosmos : diversity is good
Joe Essid: I mentioned on my blog that could I get Marketplace content delivered to me in OS, at an "IP certified grid," I would have dropped $100 US at least on content for Usher.
Pathfinder.Lester : Wizzy, good point.
AJ Kelton: i hope they wake up in time - I really like SL
Jokay.Wollongong : Agrees.... LL has an opportunity to either be the centre of the metaverse.. or a walled garden over in one corner
AJ Kelton: Joe, who said I was a spurned lover?
Joe Essid: you did
Joe Essid: :)
Chimera.Cosmos : heheh
AJ Kelton: lol - no I didn't
Joe Essid: I don't recall, actually
AJ Kelton: someone said it a at meeting I wasn't at
Joe Essid: heck, I'm a spurned motorist in SL. I would love to have a road rally. No OS grid offers that yet
AJ Kelton: jokay - whats next for you?
AJ Kelton: whats you next project or goal?
Azzura.Supplee : but not being able to buy things helps you to become more creative and less dependent on others
Jokay.Wollongong : Well of course our main focus is on continuing to grow jokaydiaGRID...
Chimera.Cosmos : yeah, I read what you wrote about the Open Road in SL on your blog Iggy
Chimera.Cosmos : agree
AJ Kelton: how big?
Jokay.Wollongong : and working with our fabulous residents to realise their projects..
AJ Kelton: what is your goal for sims?
AJ Kelton: 100?
Jokay.Wollongong : We have capacity to grow to about 120 at the moment.
AJ Kelton: or is that a "how long should this paper be" question?
Jokay.Wollongong : and we'll expand as we see the need..
Jokay.Wollongong : stability and good performance is really important to us....
AJ Kelton nods
Jokay.Wollongong : so we managing the growth is of course a never ending challenge... and woot to the ReactionGRID team who are super at supporting us in that..
AJ Kelton: amen to THAT, sister!
Jokay.Wollongong : We are also beginning to help orgs to develop niche worlds for their schools etc..
Jokay.Wollongong : and have a few interesting projects in the works..
Wizard.Gynoid @reactiongrid.com:8008 wonders if the grids RG supports are more robust that RG itself.
Jokay.Wollongong : many of you have probably seen the video from our fabulous Western Institute Project..
Jokay.Wollongong : which is focused on tourism and hospitality for vocational edu students..
AJ Kelton: i would like to hear how you are dealing with under 18's
Chimera.Cosmos : put in the URL again Jokay
Talvin.Muircastle : AJ: she deals with them very well, thank you! ;)
Chimera.Cosmos : Henny has been doing that for a long time
Pathfinder.Lester : Wizzy, depends on the hardware configs. some private grids are much more powerful than the "public grid" of ReactionGrid.
Jokay.Wollongong : we're also developing a history grid for the FUSE project which is Victorian edu dept..
Pathfinder.Lester : private grids that we host, I mean.
Jokay.Wollongong : In terms of managing young people.. we have two approaches..
Jokay.Wollongong : jokaydiaGRID is PG.. and we monitor it fairly closely..
Jokay.Wollongong : we have a number of class groups aged 13-16 who visit.. as well as a small group of great kids..
AJ Kelton: but you can't control who comes on, or do you?
Jokay.Wollongong : WE have open signups..
Chimera.Cosmos : I went to a kid-parent-teacher-jokaydiagrid event where the kids showcased their work - was awesome
Jokay.Wollongong : But we monitor the grid and the kids fairly closely... with class groups obviously teachers are a key part of that process..
AJ Kelton nods
Jokay.Wollongong : and we also try to keep in touch with parents where kids are visiting outside of school time..
AJ Kelton: do you own the students avatars?
Jokay.Wollongong : its obviously a big challenge... but the community is also a key part of keeping jokaydia safe..
Wizard.Gynoid @reactiongrid.com:8008 has to poof. enjoyed it. keep up the good work!
AJ Kelton: by wiz
Rawlslyn Francis: bye Wizard
Jokay.Wollongong : our active residents - both kids and adults are a key part of that dialogue
Wizard Gynoid is Offline
:: Wizard.Gynoid @reactiongrid.com:8008 leaves VWERMain (back to 12 visitors in this region)
Chimera.Cosmos : me too - stew is calling me!
AJ Kelton: thats great
Jokay.Wollongong : Re: owning kids avatars.. that's really a question for each teacher..
Rawlslyn Francis: bye Chimera!
Jokay.Wollongong : and i think it really depends on your learner..
Talvin.Muircastle : I have been working with young people in Virtual Worlds since TimeScape MUCK became known for being a safe haven for them back in the mid-late 1990s. I can say from experience that NO amount of verifying, screening, technology, etc. can substitute for responsible adults who take a sincere interest in what is happening with the kids and maintaining open and honest channels of communication with the kids. That's why Dianna and I allow our 6-year-old daughter to play in Jokaydia.
Jokay.Wollongong : however we can support kids retaining their work via oar files etc.. and work with teachers to find solutions for that when they are planning their projects
AJ Kelton: excellent stuff
Pathfinder.Lester : so cool that kids can save an entire region of their work as an OAR.
Jokay.Wollongong : Additional to that we can also offer minigrid options - where signs are closed and much more controlled.. as with our historygrid project.
Liz Dorland: my computer is going downstairs with typist, so probably will poof -- night all!
AJ Kelton nods
Liz Dorland: Chimera will stay :-)
Jokay.Wollongong : That grid will be closed to students who have a edu email account only.
Rawlslyn Francis: Night Liz
Jokay.Wollongong : and of course with the hypergrid, we are able to open connections to that grid so kids can showcase their work etc where appropriate
Joe Essid: tc Liz
Jokay.Wollongong : Ciao Liz! ;)
AJ Kelton: thanks - both of you
Pathfinder.Lester : by Liz!
AJ Kelton: so - one last question for each of you
Budd Turner: Any comments on OSAvatar.com? I visited and thought they had already done a credit check on me. I couldn't d/l anything.
Jokay.Wollongong : OH a huge WOOT to Ina Centaur for creation OSavatars.. what an awesome resource!
Joe Essid: I got a peek recently...so pleased to see Ina rolling it out. I've not tried to dl any avatars
AJ Kelton: at this point in time, today, right now, if you had to give advice to someone who was reading this transcript, about virtual worlds and learning, what would it be?
Pathfinder.Lester : Budd, I think the site is still under construction. not fully functional yet.
Budd Turner: Nothing should be available until mid-March
Pathfinder.Lester waits for jokay to go first :)
Rawlslyn Francis: @AJ - find a mentor , follow their projects, give yourself a semester to develop your own plan for using vw's
Jokay.Wollongong : Interesting question AJ.. i would say.... Collaborate, Share, be as open as possible.... watching the evolution of the hypergrid and the adventures that HGAC has been on.. its been thrilling to see a collaborative community evolving...
Pathfinder.Lester : great answer
AJ Kelton: very nice.
Jokay.Wollongong : i cant wait to see where we'll be in a years time ;)
AJ Kelton: yes - one year made a huge difference last year
AJ Kelton: Joh, what about you?
AJ Kelton: John
Pathfinder.Lester : hmmmmm
Pathfinder.Lester : well, i'd first say that jokay is right on in her suggestion....
Pathfinder.Lester : i would add, if you're starting out with virtual worlds, just find the pioneers. learn from them. listen to them. watch them. they will be the ones with the answers.
Pathfinder.Lester : and....
Pathfinder.Lester : remember that, right now, we're all working on how to drive cars. the roads kind of suck right now. but that will change.
Rawlslyn Francis: good answer, Pathfinder
Joe Essid: woot 1967 GTO here I come :)
Pathfinder.Lester : and once the roads improve, then you'll see things take off big time. and all your work will pay off even more.
AJ Kelton: nice - thanks both of you
AJ Kelton: so - our next meeting will be on March 11th
AJ Kelton: its a Friday
AJ Kelton: and it will be at 7pm UTC
AJ Kelton: and my guest will be Justin Clark-Casey
Pathfinder.Lester : oh wow!
AJ Kelton: i'm excited
Jokay.Wollongong : Oooh super!
Joe Essid: someone get the transcript...I'll be "up the country" then for Spring Break.
AJ Kelton: I'll grab it
AJ Kelton: do I have to grab tonights, joe - or you have it
Pathfinder.Lester : if anyone doesn't know who Justin is, he's a core developer for opensim. his blog is http://justincc.org
Joe Essid: I have it, AJ. Thanks
AJ Kelton: I DEF want tonights -for the CL stuff
AJ Kelton: TY path - I as just looking for htat
Pathfinder.Lester : way to score on a killer guest, AJ. :)
Joe Essid: it will run soon, now that I'm getting caught up again with transcripts
AJ Kelton: :)
Jokay.Wollongong : Absolutely... cant wait! ;)
AJ Kelton: ok - thx a ton, pal, don't know how I'd do it without you
AJ Kelton: that library is all you
AJ Kelton: Joe is our historian, of sorts
Rawlslyn Francis: Where will be able to access tonight's transcript? :) Thanks, Joe!
AJ Kelton: from our web site - vwer.org
Pathfinder.Lester : yeah, Joe, major props on the transcripts and library. such a fantastic resource.
Rawlslyn Francis: thx, AJ
Jeff LeBlanc: Ah, same place.
AJ Kelton: i think we have the full 3 years up there now?
Jokay.Wollongong : agrees... community historian = key! Yay Iggy! ;)
AJ Kelton: yes - http://www.vwer.org will be a one stop shop for all things VWER
Joe Essid: thanks, Path. We are keeping records of a new frontier :)
Jerry Stapleton: Thanks everyone. Glad to be here for this "historic" meeting. :-)
Joe Essid: ty Jokay...couldn't do this without a great team.
AJ Kelton: what is OSAvatar, btw
:: Jerry Stapleton leaves VWERMain (back to 10 visitors in this region)
Joe Essid: See you all soon!
Pathfinder.Lester : thank you AJ! this was awesome.