VWER 22 June 2010

Transcript of Virtual Worlds Education Roundtable: Jun 22, 2010

Topic: Open Forum

Thanks to Sheila for the photos. Join our VWER group at Flickr and add your own pictures!

Special Note: Suggest and Vote for Future Meetings

1)For the VWER Reading Meetings, visit http://bit.ly/a1IRau

2)Have an idea for a meeting topic or theme?

Visit http://bit.ly/dkDynw and add yours, or vote what is currently there

3)Know someone who you think would make an excellent special guest to be interviewed? Click here: http://bit.ly/bHVzZk

AJ Brooks: Hi everyone, and welcome to the Virtual Worlds Education Roundtable meeting.

Zotarah Shepherd: Hi Margaret

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: just back, btw....hello Dan, JC

AJ Brooks: Our meetings are made possible by the Office of Information Technology at Montclair State University. We meet here each week at 2:30pm SLT for an hour.

Csteph Submariner: Hi Zotarah

Zotarah Shepherd: Hi Katie

AJ Brooks: Our meeting today is an OPEN FORUM. Hopefully you've brought some ideas, thoughts or questions.

Profdan Netizen: Hey, Iggy.

Zotarah Shepherd: Hi JimEd

AJ Brooks: For those sitting up in the amphitheater seating, please come down and join us around the roundtable. There is always an empty seat on the side closest to the ramp.

Katie Fenstalker waves at Zo

JeanClaude Vollmar: Hey Iggy, hey Zotarah

AJ Brooks: The Virtual Worlds Education Roundtable is a forum to educate and inform the community about issues that are important and relevant to education.

JimEd Monday: Hi ProfDan, Meredith

AJ Brooks: The views and opinions of any of our special guests or visitors do not necessarily represent those who volunteer or organize these meetings,

AJ Brooks: or of the College of Humanities and Social Sciences, Office of Information Technology , or Montclair State University.

Profdan Netizen: Greetings, JimEd.

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: keep the love going, y'all :)

AJ Brooks: This is a public meeting, so we do keep and publish a transcript of what is said in local chat. For a copy of transcripts, please visit http://www.vwer.org

AJ Brooks: If you've not seen the transcripts, you should check them out - they are a great information asset.

AJ Brooks: The Virtual Worlds Education Roundtable meeting happens each week and we continue to develop a community of educators from around the world with a variety of thoughts, needs, and ideas.

Katie Fenstalker winks at Iggy.

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Hi Piona...long time no see. Hi Lali and Ju

AJ Brooks: Please join the Virtual Worlds Education Roundtable group here in SL. You can also find us on Facebook and Flickr by our full name and Twitter as VWER.

Lali Latte: Hi

JimEd Monday: Nice to see you here again Meredith :)

AJ Brooks: Finally, if you have Mystitool on, or other similar tool, please put it to sleep or detach it for now. :-) It tends to lag things.

Katie Fenstalker: hi1

AJ Brooks: Just one more reminder, we ask that everyone sitting in the theater seating join us around the roundtable. There is always an empty seat on side closest to the ramp.

Meredith Winslet: Hi JimEd

Zotarah Shepherd: Hi Lali

AJ Brooks: As a hint, it is better to have "local chat" open for these meetings, it will help you follow along better.

Ignatius Onomatopoeia notes this will all be in our transcript :) Hi Meredith

Csteph Submariner sways from side to side and sings tunelessly "We are the world..."

JeanClaude Vollmar: it's so good to be here. Been having a hard time lately getting here. Now I realize how much I miss yous.

Lali Latte: Hi Zotarah

Zotarah Shepherd: Hi Ju

AJ Brooks: Why don't we start off the way we always do, by introducing ourselves. No need to wait, go ahead and type into local chat now

2VWER 22 June 2010

AJ Brooks: Let us know who you are, what you do, and your educational affiliation.

Zotarah Shepherd: Hi Pionia

AJ Brooks: My name is AJ Kelton and I am the Director, Emerging Instructional Technology for the College of Humanities and Social Sciences at Montclair State University in New Jersey

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: yep--this is a rock in a stormy sea

Ju Roussel: Hi Zotarah :)

Pionia Destiny: smiles

Margaret Michalski: Margaret Czart, Research Information Specialist from the University of Illinois at Chicago.

Zotarah Shepherd: Hi Firery

Profdan Netizen: Dan Holt, Lansing Community College, Lansing, MI. I teach writing, both first year comp and creative writing.

Katie Fenstalker: Katie King from the University of Maryland, College Park -- Women's Studies.

Csteph Submariner: Hi Firery

Ignatius Onomatopoeia is Joe Essid, Faculty in Rhetoric & Communication studies at U Richmond, blogger, bald-headed freak, writer, part-time hillbilly

Firery Broome: Hello Zotarah

Lali Latte: Melinda Korzaan, Assistant Prof, Computer Information Systems. Middle Tennessee State University

AJ Brooks: Silhshoot, Firery, Graham, Pionia, Talus - please come on down and join us - you don't need to be active to sit at the table with us

JimEd Monday: Eli's Alt from Tulsa Community College

Meredith Winslet: History Teacher, CC and work in the library.

Delenn Daines: Judy Kelly, Biology, Henry Ford Community College, Dearborn, MI

Firery Broome: & Csteph as well : )

Zotarah Shepherd: I am a MA in Education (technology & psychology) student at Sonoma State University in northern California working on a curriculum project: Teaching and Learning Life Foundation Skills in Second Life.

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Hi Fiery--thanks for that nice e-mail!

Pionia Destiny: I am an EFL professor.. researching how to use medieval sims to learn a new language

JeanClaude Vollmar: I'm Jeff Le Blanc in RL, JC here. I'm from the University of Northwestern Ohio and am the VP for IT there.

Ju Roussel: <-- phd student, Stockholm Univ.

Margaret Michalski: Hi Fiery

Firery Broome: you are welcome another on the way soon

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: woot!

Graham Mills: Peter Miller, University of Liverpool

AJ Brooks: anyone left to introduce?>

Firery Broome: Hi Margaret

Csteph Submariner: Chris Stephens - tinkerer and chief code monkey at CS dept in Oxford

AJ Brooks: going once

AJ Brooks: going twice

Katie Fenstalker: nice group.

Ahlan Oh: Alan Epstein, Watertown Public Schools, MA, USA

AJ Brooks: sold to the cardboard robot

Zotarah Shepherd: There is room for everyone at the table.

Margaret Michalski: lol

Zotarah Shepherd: hehe

AJ Brooks: well - whats on your mind today, who wants to get us started?

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: meshes :)

AJ Brooks: lol

JimEd Monday: Iggy mentioned SL7B too

AJ Brooks: no wasting time, there, eh Iggy?

Margaret Michalski: well, I can say I am very glad we expanded our discussions beyond SL

AJ Brooks: ok - lest start with meshes

Katie Fenstalker: what are they?

AJ Brooks: Iggy - why don't you give us a primer

VWER 22 June 2010

JimEd Monday: Hi Marc

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: I got dope-slapped by content developers for suggesting that meshes might hamper edu builds

Zotarah Shepherd: I am a bit more relieved about the 30% LL layoffs.

Csteph Submariner: meshes ought to be a huge step forward, but I can't help wondering what the hidden gotchas are going to be

Katie Fenstalker is aware she is still SL centric and blushes.

Ju Roussel: Ignatius, how will they?

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: A mesh is a type of 3D graphic far more realistic than our current prims w/ textures

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: I'm not a techie

Profdan Netizen: My son, a graduate from the computer animation program at Ringling, was excited to hear about the imminent use of meshes.

Firery Broome: Photoshop can export the new 3D files!

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: but the level of skill to develop them is beyond faculty like me

Katie Fenstalker: whre are they used usually?

Csteph Submariner: the software ain't cheap either

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Firery, that may help me. And Blender is free

Ahlan Oh: is this the same as a wireframe?

Ju Roussel: So basically will be able to import stuff from Google Sketchup and more advanced software?

Csteph Submariner: Maya is about $5 grand i think

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: @Ju--yes

AJ Brooks: thats awesome - sketchup is free

Firery Broome: Yes Blender is and lots of tuts. on the web for it

Firery Broome: and good books too

JeanClaude Vollmar: How are meshes different from sculpties?

Firery Broome: You can get an ed price for Maya

Katie Fenstalker nods and thanks JeanClaude

Ju Roussel: I can see everyone robbing the sketchup warehouse and importing those "borrowed" creations. (?)

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: don't know the learning curve or what it will do in terms of lag graphics reqs for SL

Profdan Netizen: YOu can import 3D creations from software outside of SL?

AJ Brooks: who else is using meshes - in VWS

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Already can, Dan

Csteph Submariner: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Frbz6tpLo0

Zotarah Shepherd: http://dusanwriter.com/index.php/2010/06/22/mesh-imports-in-second-life-imminent/

Firery Broome: Adobe has a link to some warehouses as well

Profdan Netizen: Iggy, from 3D programs like maya?

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: our students made the House of Usher, in all its overprimmed and laggy glory, in Sketchup

Csteph Submariner: the vid is not an avatar but an animated mesh object

Ju Roussel: Yes, tomorrows metanomics (at 12.00) is supposedly dedicated to meshes.

Margaret Michalski: I heard of a Second Inventory software. I don't know if it has the capabilities

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: we'll have an SL that has the look of a well made video game, at least in areas with lots of new builds that use meshes

cyber Placebo: @Csteph how long does it take to create a 2mn vid like this

Zotarah Shepherd: Second Inventory is a bit pricy too.

Firery Broome: Sandcastle Studios are the guests should be good

AJ Brooks: so our poor tin cup edu builds will look like crap, is what you are saying

Csteph Submariner: SketchUp can export their collada format too I believe

Katie Fenstalker: @ Iggy -- you are paying for new level of realism with lag?

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: expensive content could be imported from sites like this: http://www.turbosquid.com

Profdan Netizen: The other question that has come up is whether or not viewer 2.0 will be needed to see mesh stuff.

Zotarah Shepherd: Oh I hope not

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: @Katie--don't know. A few commenters at blogs think meshes will lessen lag

Perplexity Peccable: Thanks, AJ :)

Firery Broome: I think Turbosquid might be one of the links at Adobe

AJ Brooks: i think the old viewer will be going away sooner rather than later

Margaret Michalski: Hi Perplexity

Katie Fenstalker nods with interest at Iggy.

AJ Brooks: Hey lexi!

Perplexity Peccable: Hi, Kaite

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: @AJ, then we'll all be naked if LL does not fix that bug

Perplexity Peccable: Katie

Perplexity Peccable: yep!

Profdan Netizen: Hi, Lexi.

Katie Fenstalker: Hi Lexi

AJ Brooks: grab seats, folks - the open one is closest to the ramp

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: and will get kicked out of SLB7

AJ Brooks: I'm not naked in SL2

Perplexity Peccable: Hi, Profdan :)

AJ Brooks: I've never been naked

JeanClaude Vollmar: Oh, oh. Gonna have to bite the bullet and download the new viewer then. *smiles* Have been dragging my feet on that one.

Meredith Winslet: it happens

AJ Brooks: I had to change back to male from female

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: I'm keeping my hillbilly/hobo barrel around just in case

Perplexity Peccable: I am in SL@ - it often happens right after a TP

Perplexity Peccable: part of rezzing, I think

Katie Fenstalker is still feeling clunky in V2

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: LL will fix that bug, I'm sure

cyber Placebo: @ JC try kirsten (20)viewer

AJ Brooks: it does take a while to get used to

AJ Brooks: my big problem is finding things easily that I have no problem finding now

Delenn Daines wears lots of layers of clothing

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: I wonder what will happen to 3rd party viewers not SL 2 compliant?

Profdan Netizen: Agreed, AJ, though I've been using it exclusively for the last couple months with no real problems.

Profdan Netizen: Actually, less crashing than with 1.23.

AJ Brooks: i'm switching back and forth

Ju Roussel: If they do no harm, they'll stay..

Margaret Michalski: Hippo stopped development I think

VWER 22 June 2010

Csteph Submariner: Kirsten's viewer is v2 now

Margaret Michalski: Not sure what imprudence is doing

AJ Brooks: when I need to be sure I'll have no problem, like, now - I'm in the old viewer - otherwise, I try to default to the new one

Firery Broome: non compliant will not run

Csteph Submariner: but it's no better than the LL client

Zotarah Shepherd: V2 messed up V1 for me when I switched and it was hard to build with V2 so I really do not want to switch.

Csteph Submariner: to my mind

Firery Broome: just stop working

Talus Nemeth: many of the non SL2 viewers will have an extended lifespan in OpenSim venues.

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Hippo was very good. What will OpenSim users use, then? Imprudence?

Perplexity Peccable: I found once I made the commitment to SL2 and quit switching back and forth, there were no further problems

Katie Fenstalker: lol

Perplexity Peccable: the trouble is when you switch back and forth

ffeldon Mint: I'm buying a new computer w Windows 7 64-bit. Any advice? Specifically regarding graphic cards?

Katie Fenstalker: I took your word for that Lexi -- me too.

Csteph Submariner: agreed Perplexity

Margaret Michalski: For now both but for how long I don't know

Marc Rexen: ATI works fine 5870

AJ Brooks: FFeldon - the graphic card recommendation are on the LL web site

Ju Roussel: Well, the viewer seems to be approaching the exit, too... The in-browser version is upon us!

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: get as much RAM on board as you can

Perplexity Peccable: yes about RAM

ffeldon Mint: site doesn't have win 7 it's XP or Vista only

AJ Brooks: don't jump the gun on the death of the inworld viewer

Profdan Netizen: I really hope they don't dump the stand alone viewer for browser only.

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: @Ju--that Web-based viewer is very exciting stuff

JeanClaude Vollmar: In browser will be fantastic to have!

Ju Roussel: AJ, I certainly hope so

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: for users like my students

Profdan Netizen: I hope we'll always have a choice.

Ju Roussel: I just can't imagine how the 2 would coexist.

Profdan Netizen: I agree, Iggy.

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: I'll want a builders version (if I ever learn meshes)

Perplexity Peccable: I want to learn mesh :)

Katie Fenstalker thinks a builders version has to be coming....

AJ Brooks: thats actually where this convo started, lexi

Zotarah Shepherd: With mesh out, I just hope my prim builds will not be obsolete.

AJ Brooks: lol

Ju Roussel: I think about Unity3D in-browser: requires high-end machines. I'm fond of my laptop, but Unity3D is a no go.

Csteph Submariner: I've been trying to get to grips with Maya, but it's a very deep program

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: @Perplexity, I am not whining but there's a cost/benefit for faculty here. I get little enough credit for using SL...why learn a new app when my review won't improve?

Perplexity Peccable: You mean SL2?

JeanClaude Vollmar: I've been goofing with sculpties, so meshes sounds interesting.

Katie Fenstalker nods at Iggy.

Perplexity Peccable: Personally, I found SL2 promotes student acceptance

Perplexity Peccable: which is the point after all

AJ Brooks nods at katie nodding at iggy

Katie Fenstalker: Still just trying to get people to try it.

AJ Brooks: the students who work for me LOVE SL2

Zotarah Shepherd: Just when you thought you knew SL well enough, something new comes out that you have to learn.

AJ Brooks: they refuse to use 1.23 anymore

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: This is a central problem of geting mainstream faculty on tenure-track or annual contracts into SL. We gotta make it as easy as possible. I can get as much credit for using a wiki or blogging with a class :)

Csteph Submariner nods at AJ nodding at katie nodding at iggy

Daring Melody: @Ju. Today's high end are run of the mill in a short time

Ignatius Onomatopoeia nods his bobble-head until it falls off and rolls across the floor.

Profdan Netizen: Agreed, Lexi, though I would think a browser based viewer would be even better for students, esp with the wide range of computers, and might make smart phones and tablets, like iPad, SL accessible.

Katie Fenstalker nods again at Iggy with a wink at AJ and Lexi.

Zotarah Shepherd: I want to focus on subject content here rather than learning new tech.

Ju Roussel: Daring, not if future is in the Cloud. I plan that my current machine will be the last powerful one.

Perplexity Peccable: Agreed, Profdan

Perplexity Peccable: tech keeps changing

Katie Fenstalker wants an SL ipad.

Perplexity Peccable: when you stop learning new tech, you have made yourself obsolete

AJ Brooks: Zotarah - being on the bleeding edge of things, you really can't get away with not focusing on tech - since it changes so frequently

Ignatius Onomatopoeia sings his old tune about "students want lightweight laptops and wireless...not gaming machines"

Csteph Submariner: good point Zo, all the eye candy in the world is not going to help a lack of basic content

cyber Placebo: @ AJ what do your students do with it

AJ Brooks: I WANT AN SL IPAD APP TOO!!!!!!!

Katie Fenstalker: lol

Csteph Submariner: I just want an iPad

Margaret Michalski: lol

Ju Roussel: Ignatius, it's truth.

Profdan Netizen: Agreed, Csteph.

Ignatius Onomatopoeia wants a Google tablet...don't tell Steve Jobs I'm a heretic.

AJ Brooks: cyber - you mean the students who work for me?

Zotarah Shepherd: I am ok with tech changing just not required. I don't want to have to redo what I have already built.

Margaret Michalski: I have an Opensim Ipad..made by me

JeanClaude Vollmar: Me three on the SL for iPad.

cyber Placebo: @ aj yes

Profdan Netizen: It's the first Apple product that Im' seriously consider buying.

Csteph Submariner: I have the iPad nano, otherwise called the iPhone

Ju Roussel ordered an ebook reader - thanks iPad for driving the prices down.

AJ Brooks: @cyber - they do their work. Building things, searching for stuff, etc....

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: @Margaret, what clients are 3RG users trying other than Hippo?

AJ Brooks: this is my team of students who work in SL

Perplexity Peccable: Zotarah, so building on what we've already learned rather than starting over

AJ Brooks: scaffolding

Daring Melody: @JU. Hmmm.Point taken

Katie Fenstalker: well it matters that people starting from scratch feel included in building too.....

Zotarah Shepherd: yes

Margaret Michalski: @ Iggy Imprudence has made 3rg their home but others use merekeet and a few other viewers. But Hippo and Imprudence are the most popular

Ju Roussel: Well meshes will be built outside

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Imprudence rocks...even if they removed features to avoid a LL law suit

Ju Roussel: Building in SL will remain a valuable (certifiable, even) skill

Csteph Submariner: I get the feeling that LL are heading towards separating content creation from the 'basic' client

Ju Roussel: Csteph, quite likely!

Katie Fenstalker: @Csteph -- I worry about taht.

AJ Brooks: csteph - explain

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: @Csteph, if the 8% edu figure is correct, and they need social users, it would make sense

Katie Fenstalker: the draw is that user generated content possibilities.

AJ Brooks: no create in the basic client?

Csteph Submariner: I don't mind as long as they still have some collaborative enviroment for builders

Perplexity Peccable: where does one find Impudence? that is new to me

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: I'll get the URL for you

Perplexity Peccable: thx!

Zotarah Shepherd: I hope that building and content creation will not prohibit students from building in SL. They learn that way.

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: http://imprudenceviewer.org/

Katie Fenstalker: I worry about professionalizing SL content.

Csteph Submariner: I would guess the proposed web client will have little in the way of building tolls

JimEd Monday: will building become more commercialized for some users then? - just buy things out of the box from businesses.

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: @Katie, me too. Our DIY ethos here is so compelling.

AJ Brooks: so - if you want to create, use the app, if you want to just visit, use the wb

Margaret Michalski: Hi Olivia

Ju Roussel: LL are tired from the whining small scale content providers -- these changes will likely shift the economy toward "golden solution providers"

Zotarah Shepherd: Hi Olivia

Profdan Netizen: Hi, Olivia.

Perplexity Peccable: Thanks, Iggy

Olivia Hotshot: Hey Everyone! happy Tuesday.

Katie Fenstalker: DIY is everything I think ....

AJ Brooks: OLIVIA!!!!!!!!

Csteph Submariner: I think engaging content will remain engaging content even after meshes come along

Olivia Hotshot: I snuck out of a meeting to be here.

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: But the 2D Web went that direction. I had to get my own server to keep our U off my IP and wonky old projects designed before templates.

Olivia Hotshot: so far no one has missed me

AJ Brooks: we love you, olivia

June 22 VWER #1

Katie Fenstalker waves at Olivia -- the best!

Csteph Submariner: we absorbed sculpties ok

Olivia Hotshot: =)

Ignatius Onomatopoeia missed you!

Csteph Submariner: hi Olivia

JimEd Monday: welcome Olivia :)

JimEd Monday: Hi Sheila

Olivia Hotshot is blushing at the attention but loves it

AJ Brooks: Iggy - you're talking more and more like a techie (than a luddite)

Sheila Yoshikawa: hi, sorry i'm late

AJ Brooks: hey Sheila

JimEd Monday: Hi Sheila

Katie Fenstalker: hi

AJ Brooks: Hey - anyone planning on going to LL's B'day party?

Katie Fenstalker: ????

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: @AJ--appropriate technology for luddites includes VWs...think of the carbon we are not spewing by meeting here

Olivia Hotshot: I am going. Will be a photo

Ju Roussel: it's a party every day ot?

Delenn Daines: let's all go after the meeting

Margaret Michalski: there is one?

Firery Broome: You bet for the B-day

Zotarah Shepherd: Oh I guess it is that time of year again huh?

Margaret Michalski: I got an anit LL t-shirt at helen keller day

Margaret Michalski: anti

Katie Fenstalker has a community Tea after this....

Firery Broome: #7 Margaret

Csteph Submariner: I'm up for a little after-school partying

Perplexity Peccable: that seemed strange

Profdan Netizen: I explored a bit in Blue Mars the other day. Although some nice shadowing, I didn't find the builds that much better than what we find here, so I don't think mesh will necessarily make current builds obsolete.

Perplexity Peccable: especially since LL helped support HKD

AJ Brooks: lol - I wasn't suggesting going - I'm not planning on it

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: It's a lag fest, however

Katie Fenstalker: Blue Mars has mesh already?

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: @Katie, I think so

AJ Brooks: what other virtual worlds have meshes already

Profdan Netizen: They have pro builders using maya and such.

Perplexity Peccable: I wish Blue Mars worked on Macs

Firery Broome: It is a great way to see fantastic builds, lots of creativity there

Katie Fenstalker: mesh is associated with pros?

cyber Placebo: Blue Mars LM please :-)

Ju Roussel: ReactionGrid, via Jibe, I believe

Firery Broome: at the b-day

Csteph Submariner: I think most of the MMO game type VW use meshes

Olivia Hotshot: I agree @Perplexity

Zotarah Shepherd: I think students do better in SL when they socialize and go to events like RFL and the LL birthday

AJ Brooks: I agree Zotarah

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Let's hope that Linden Lab permits end users to continue developing; I'm not in Blue Mars b/c they heavily restrict UGC to professionals (and it's Windows only XD )

Katie Fenstalker agrees with Zo

Profdan Netizen: http://www.bluemarsonline.com/

Perplexity Peccable wonders if Blue Mars will work on my netbook, like SL does

Csteph Submariner: the file format LL are proposing to support is called COLLADA and is an industry standard

JeanClaude Vollmar: Any freebie software like Blender or Wings3D doing meshes?

AJ Brooks: the AH HA moment for my students was when we got off the MSU island and went to Info island for a tour by Lori Bell

Zotarah Shepherd: I have not been able to get into RG lately. I can't download the new viewer.

cyber Placebo: Acronyms...

Profdan Netizen: I seriously doubt it, Lexi!

Perplexity Peccable: AHA moment is a great way to put it, AJ

Csteph Submariner: @Lexi, Blue Mars barely runs on a Cray supercomputer cluster

Perplexity Peccable: :(

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: @Perplexity, NO way--you need a gamer PC to even try Blue Mars

Perplexity Peccable: well, glad SL runs on it!

AJ Brooks: thx lexi! :)

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Sorry for all the abbreviations

Csteph Submariner: np

AJ Brooks: luddite!

AJ Brooks: (iggy, not csteph)

Profdan Netizen: Not exactly, Iggy, just a pretty up to date graphics card--I got in with a 2008 laptop.

Katie Fenstalker wonders to what extent gamer sensibilities are driving realisms..?

Graham Mills: Um, isn't blue mars using otoy to stream?

Ignatius Onomatopoeia waves club and monkey wrench and yells "Hayduke lives!"

AJ Brooks: ROFl

AJ Brooks: Anyone going to SLCC (other than me and Olivia)

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: @Graham, they promise a Web based client too...and that would bring in Mac OS and Linux users

Profdan Netizen: video games is a larger industry than movies, so it has to be an influence.

Delenn Daines: I'm going to slcc too

Zotarah Shepherd: Too far for me AJ

Perplexity Peccable: what about EVE online?

Graham Mills: yes, and lower end hardware

Perplexity Peccable: I know Fleep is there

AJ Brooks: YAY - we should meet up Delenn

Csteph Submariner: I volunteered for the in-world build team, but I already had my trip to the US for this year :(

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: @Profdan, even video games are moving to a Web based model. What is that service that lets you run them on any platform?

Delenn Daines: definitely AJ!

Olivia Hotshot: how would one use Eve? I am interested in hearing that

Katie Fenstalker: Eve?

AJ Brooks: Oh - yes, I know Fleep - I meant from this group. I'm totally up for meeting folks in the actual worlds, its fun

Perplexity Peccable: I've seen her pics, but am not sure what she is doing

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Steam? Valve?

cyber Placebo: http://www.eveonline.com/races/

Profdan Netizen: That's right, Iggy, just checked that out with my son--Onlive or some such?

AJ Brooks: she is running the whole deal

Zotarah Shepherd: Eve?

Profdan Netizen: Where all rendering is done on the servers, not on the client.

Olivia Hotshot: Yes, Eve is a multiplayer game

Margaret Michalski: Hi Birdie

AJ Brooks: with a couple of other folks

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Mac users can play cool PC games now like Left for Dead

Csteph Submariner: Eve the space game?

Olivia Hotshot: yes CSteph

Perplexity Peccable: if you have enough RAM and space to run two OS

AJ Brooks: hey birdie

Katie Fenstalker is still playing Laura Croft....

Zotarah Shepherd: Hi Birdie!

Olivia Hotshot: Perplexity brought it up.

Profdan Netizen: http://www.onlive.com/

Birdie Newcomb: Hi

Katie Fenstalker: Hi

Olivia Hotshot: Hi Birdie.

Csteph Submariner: I played tha\t for a while,. Would be a ripe field for study by economists or sociologists

Olivia Hotshot: Or miners? =)

AJ Brooks: hey jared

Csteph Submariner: haha

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: @Perplexity, it would be even cooler to just run it w/o all that. The industry seems to recognize that the next gen of gamers are not geeks with high-end desktops

Csteph Submariner: I still see Omber asteroids in my dreams..

Olivia Hotshot: I can see WoW as a tool, but not sure about Eve

Perplexity Peccable: I was curious

Perplexity Peccable: I know TONS of folks teaching with WOW

Jarrad Voom: Hi AJ sorry I am late

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: @Olvia, Eve has a real economy, like SL

Perplexity Peccable: Maggie Marat for one major one

AJ Brooks: no worries, J - join us and enjoy

AJ Brooks: Maggie is awesome

Profdan Netizen: What types of classes in WoW, Lexi?

Olivia Hotshot: Yes, i understand that, just had not thought of eve as a teaching tool/

Perplexity Peccable: Maggie has a guild there just for teachers using WOW

Perplexity Peccable: there are gazillions of articles about it

Perplexity Peccable: easy to find with Google search

AJ Brooks: Cognitive Dissonance

Perplexity Peccable: lol

AJ Brooks: 27 on the sim for the record

Olivia Hotshot: i have an ethics issue with WoW in the classroom - but that is my gig.

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: In fact, it would be a better place for economists to study virtual economies than WoW, from what I know if both worlds. But teaching in Eve might be tough. I don't think it has avatars. You build fleets and make money.

Katie Fenstalker: @Olivia -- how so?

Perplexity Peccable: maybe Fleep is just playing

Csteph Submariner: I always remember some lines from a report by some scientists who used WoW for a meeting when they reported that the meeting was without incident except for two people who drowned in lava and one who was eaten by a hyena

AJ Brooks: virtual economies, now you're like ted castranova

Olivia Hotshot: Well the premise is you kill things and steal their stuff.

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: @Csteph ROFLMAO

Sheila Yoshikawa: lol

2VWER 22 June 2010

Olivia Hotshot: too funny

AJ Brooks: oh if that were only possible in the actual world

cyber Placebo: @ Olivia Please expand : i have an ethics issue with WoW in the classroom - but that is my gig.

Marc Rexen: :O

Profdan Netizen: Good point, Olivia.

Olivia Hotshot: [15:04] Olivia Hotshot: Well the premise is you kill things and steal their stuff.

Katie Fenstalker agrees with Olivia that that makes for a complex classroom....

Sheila Yoshikawa: whereas in the talk Maggie Marat gave on Saturday she was saying how in SL the people who were esteemed were the helpful ones

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: @Olivia, that's the history of the male-dominated civilization. Sad but true.

JimEd Monday: There was some chat on the SLED list about Inwordz - I'm not familiar with that one.

AJ Brooks: but you don't HAVE to do those things in WoW (says someone who has never played it)

Olivia Hotshot: Lots of great things there - but the killing bothers me

Perplexity Peccable: Bravo, Sheila :)

Perplexity Peccable: Glad you are here

JimEd Monday: anyone been there?

Marc Rexen: Inworldz is an SL clone on a shoestring.

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Like OpenLife, I think

Margaret Michalski: I agree with olivia about the killing

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Margaret, how is 3RG working with the new OS currency?

AJ Brooks: not me - lets kill EVERYTHING!!!!!

Csteph Submariner: I joined SmallWorlds, but not impressed with it

AJ Brooks: (just kidding)

Olivia Hotshot: well you ARE from Jersey AJ.

Katie Fenstalker: lol

Zotarah Shepherd: My self-reward for finishing my thesis wil be to join WoW. : )

AJ Brooks: LOL

Olivia Hotshot: =)

JimEd Monday: lol

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: @AJ--only if I can play in a Mad Max game or cap zombies. I get bored with the violent games.

AJ Brooks: exit 145 babe!

Olivia Hotshot: hahaha

Olivia Hotshot: i know that exit!

AJ Brooks: 15W on that other road

AJ Brooks: ROFL - I'm not surprised

Csteph Submariner: I played WoW for ages, but I gave up when I got to the end-game as it was just a massive time sink

Margaret Michalski: @ Iggy, I think they are working on it from what I know.

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: @Csteph, I respect teachers trying to use WoW, but it's even less designed for something like this than SL was.

Olivia Hotshot: I am wondering how schools deal with the membership fees for WoW.

Csteph Submariner: interesting in that regard how it raises the value of 'time' over, necessarily, money

Zotarah Shepherd: I was a avid D&D player years ago and if I joined WoW I would probably not get anything else done.

Csteph Submariner: haha

AJ Brooks: thats why I don't play WoW

Zotarah Shepherd: hehe

AJ Brooks: I started playing D&D back in the late 70s

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: It would seem, Margaret, that developing a cross-worlds currency independent of the L Dollar will make a huge difference for OS worlds

Delenn Daines: my boys tell me I should be a shaman on WoW

Perplexity Peccable: I loved Rogue

Profdan Netizen: Yeah, I've heard WoW called virtual crack!

Perplexity Peccable: back in mainframe days

Ju Roussel: I'm interested to hear about WoW fees vs. education too, Olivia...

Csteph Submariner: rogue FTW!

Katie Fenstalker: how would a cross worlds currency work?

Olivia Hotshot: Anyone remember Diablo?

Perplexity Peccable: Rogue taught my daughter how to spell

Daring Melody: @Zotarah. I hear you. Stopped RPGing 24 yrs ago because of the same reasons

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: @Zo--nice thing about face-to-face RPGs. You can have a nerd-night as I do, and still have a life.

Margaret Michalski: oh yes, I just have been out of that loop. Busy developing a 3rg University

Perplexity Peccable: "Help, Mommy! A C is trying to get me!"

Csteph Submariner: haha

Zotarah Shepherd nods to Daring.

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: I dislike MMORPGs because you can't just play once per week with your guild. They want you there.

Ahlan Oh: it's like political work

Perplexity Peccable: Iggy, they can be very instructive, but also very stressful

June 22 VWER #1

Csteph Submariner: yer, they don't favour the casual player mostly

Ignatius Onomatopoeia still games one night a week

Zotarah Shepherd: I used to play 2 or 3 times a week with my friends for hours.

Margaret Michalski: @ Iggy 3rg non-techies are concentrating on the use of OpenSim for education. Techies worry about the rest

AJ Brooks: REALLY @Iggy

Katie Fenstalker wants to be casual in gaming.

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: we are all so old that we have to stop by 10:30 :)

AJ Brooks: ROFLMAO!!!!!!

Perplexity Peccable: lol :)

Csteph Submariner: I've played lots of different MMO, but none to the highest levels

Profdan Netizen: lol

Delenn Daines has a gaming laptop but uses it for sl

Meredith Winslet: definitely lol

Zotarah Shepherd: I am too obsessive to play casually. hehe

Perplexity Peccable smiles at Delenn

Olivia Hotshot: I used to play WoW for hours too - and then i lost the reason why i wanted to

Katie Fenstalker: what counts as a gaming laptop?

AJ Brooks: if you like to play, I'm not so sure there is any such thing as casual

Perplexity Peccable: Sorry, Olivia :(

Csteph Submariner: we so need a VWER WoW guild...

Profdan Netizen: I want to get a gaming computer, just so I can use Ultra settings in SL.

AJ Brooks: i use them when I take pictures

Olivia Hotshot: Thanks Perplexity! =) I am in a recovery program.

Olivia Hotshot: hehe

Marc Rexen: i7 quad core, 5870 video Asus makes one for $1,500.

AJ Brooks: how many peopel here have been into WoW - say YES

Csteph Submariner: yes

Marc Rexen: yes\

Perplexity Peccable: Yowsa, Marc - sounds powerful

Profdan Netizen: n

Katie Fenstalker: n

Olivia Hotshot: yes

Meredith Winslet: n

Perplexity Peccable: n

Graham Mills: n

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: yeah, I'd like that sort of machine for my monthly road trip in SL--or to race other SLers

Delenn Daines: When you go to the manufacturers website, there is a separate category for gaming laptops

Sheila Yoshikawa: n

JimEd Monday: n

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: n

Lali Latte: n

Silhshoot Seelowe: have only viewed it over a students shoulder ã‹¡

Jarrad Voom: yes

Pionia Destiny: no

Birdie Newcomb: n

Margaret Michalski: no

JeanClaude Vollmar: I'm afraid to start WoW. I know I'd be hooked for sure.

Zotarah Shepherd: n

Profdan Netizen: Used to explore the Myst online MMO, URU.

Olivia Hotshot: [waves south to Shil]

Perplexity Peccable agrees with JeanClaude

Csteph Submariner: anyone remember Ultima Online? around '95 '96

Birdie Newcomb: I was looking at the ones for Mac - lame

Perplexity Peccable: Birdie, what on Mac?

Silhshoot Seelowe whispers: Hi Olivia

Olivia Hotshot: =)

Katie Fenstalker: @Birdie -- gaming laptop Mac version?

Birdie Newcomb: mmorpgs

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: last game on a computer played: Great War at Sea..WW II single player. I just don't dig online games for some reason.

Olivia Hotshot: Does anyone think there are any Facebook Game apps worthy of inclusion in education?

Profdan Netizen: Just played Zelda on Wii--last time I had played was 2006!

Zotarah Shepherd: I bought my PC Vista because it was for gaming which runs SL better, after 2 years it is old.

Csteph Submariner: I try to avoid FB games

Margaret Michalski: good question Olivia...don't really know

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: could be a great place for useful games--Facebook. No barrier for students

JeanClaude Vollmar: @Olivia, Farmville! LOL There's got to be and educational aspect of that.

Katie Fenstalker plays Lexulous and Happy Aquarium -- sees no ed uses....

Olivia Hotshot: Csteph, me too, but i am wondering if there is something out there worth looking at

Perplexity Peccable: I know lots of gaming faculty build FB games for education - outreach / healthcare / behavior mod, etc

Zotarah Shepherd: Maybe different games work for different subjects/teaching styles.

Profdan Netizen: Though, creepy treehouse begins to raise it's head with requiring FB.

Olivia Hotshot: JeanClaude - i am laughing now.

Ju Roussel: FB - as in FaceBook - games?!

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: I wish something like the old Geopoliticks game would emerge there. Combined economics, diplomacy, spycraft. It would be great in certain courses. It ran on old pre-Internet bulletin board systems.

Katie Fenstalker: requiring FB? how's that Profdan?

Olivia Hotshot: Iggy is right though - low barrier if any

Margaret Michalski: @ perplexity, thanks I will need to check those out

Jarrad Voom: I'm with Iggie

Csteph Submariner: i think it's worth looking at how the current crop of 'youth' experience the virtual world

Zotarah Shepherd: I think virtual worlds work better since you can take more constructive approach.

Sheila Yoshikawa: Don't know if this is relevant - but at a talk I was at on Monday, a speaker (head of elearning at Bath uni) was saying how in a survey only % of students said they would be willing to 17% said they were likely to use their own money to access learning stuff on their mobile phones, this is vaguely tying up with something said ages ago (I think - I feel ok getting them to sign up to SL cos it is free, is it acceptable to require them to sub to some game that does require money to play?

Perplexity Peccable: Oui, Ju, c'est vrai

Ju Roussel: 'creepy treehouse' - the phrase of the day :)

Csteph Submariner: and I think it's more likely something like Habbo or |Gaia than games/3D

Olivia Hotshot: games that are browser based and cost zero interest me.

Sheila Yoshikawa: that should have been "only 17%"

Olivia Hotshot: Ju, i thought the word of the day was Back Channel. (wait that is 2 words)

Profdan Netizen: Link for creepy treehouse: http://flexknowlogy.learningfield.org/2008/04/09/defining-creepy-tree-house/

Perplexity Peccable: Thanks Profdan!

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: @Sheila, I read that for US students born since 1982, there's two things they want things to be online: free and "not suck."

JimEd Monday: playing devil's advocate here: http://www.cracked.com/article_18461_5-creepy-ways-video-games-are-trying-to-get-you-addicted_p1.html ( Email5 Creepy Ways Video Games Are Trying to Get You Addicted)

Sheila Yoshikawa: I had a debate with someone about whether it was fair to apply creepy treehouse just to online environments

Csteph Submariner: I know this is not MMO, but I love little 'games' like this

Csteph Submariner: http://www.funny-games.biz/reaction-effect.html

AJ Brooks: wow - I go away to answer the phone and this conversation is all over the map now - LOL

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: but I bet they'd way a little for convenience (on smart phones, for instance)

Zotarah Shepherd: If students cannot create in a program then I have little interest in it for teaching.

Ju Roussel: So, since I'm outside of US... Is use/design on base of (insert game name) part of curriculum in instructional design programs? Who are the people who create FB-based game for a university instructor?

Sheila Yoshikawa: we create creepy treehouses in physical universities, lure the students into coffee shops and comfy chairs etc

(Short Editorial: Iggy missed this comment...darn. The coffee shop on my campus is very popular with students. They feel that they own it, and faculty are on their territory when there, but we all use it for meetings. So I guess it depends on the design and sense of ownership)

Perplexity Peccable: a friend at work was teasing me and said dataviz is my "porn" - made us both laugh

Katie Fenstalker likes iPhone koi pond....

Katie Fenstalker agrees with Lexi....

Katie Fenstalker: data sound now too!

Sheila Yoshikawa: I was sort of joking there but i get cross when it is implied online automatically includes a creep factor

Katie Fenstalker agrees with Sheila

Perplexity Peccable: Well, Sheila, doesn't offline automatically include a creep factor?

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: I fell into the Uncanny Valley when I looked at those gaming avatars at Turbosquid

Perplexity Peccable: think of the Catholic Church

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: creeped me out big time

Katie Fenstalker: @Lexi LOL

Profdan Netizen: I agree as well--but I have a problem with requiring students to use a social network like FB, and requiring them to "friend" me.

Ju Roussel: What about the Catholic Church?

Perplexity Peccable: there are creeps everywhere, online is no exception

AJ Brooks: FOLKS - BEFORE WE ALL START TO SPLIT UP - JUST WANTED TO TELL YOU THE TOPIC FOR NEXT WEEKS MEETING "Does SL enhance the learning experience?"

Katie Fenstalker: I agree with you Profdan.

Ignatius Onomatopoeia sits on his lapsed Catholic hands and will only tell stories offline :)

Perplexity Peccable: Right, Profdan - that is not ok

JeanClaude Vollmar: I agree Lexi

Pionia Destiny: great topic...

AJ Brooks: I hope folsk will bring examples, from both yes and no perspective

Katie Fenstalker: Afterall their FB shouldn't be colonized by academic capitalism....

Margaret Michalski: @ profdan yeah, as a doctoral student they made me join or else. Some sort of monitoring system but I don't have anything to hide

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: @Katie, only other forms of capitalism?

Katie Fenstalker: some are better than others.

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: agreed

Pionia Destiny: I ask my students to join Fb..

JeanClaude Vollmar: Besides, everyone's a stranger online most times. Didn't mommy say don't talk to strangers? If so, none of us would be here if we took her advices.

Birdie Newcomb: I had a waking vision of what the Linden plan for SL on a browser might look like: floating bubbles of people who don't yet have an avatar -- they can look and move but not build or talk. Creepy.

Pionia Destiny: I found that it's a great way to keep in touch... but they join only if they want to

Katie Fenstalker: If you could have multiple FB it would okay to require,

JeanClaude Vollmar: I've only met a few of you in RL.

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Birdie, that is Giulio's vision--the guy who posts to SLED

Sheila Yoshikawa: re: next week, surely it will be a short meeting, we just say "yes" and go home lol

Zotarah Shepherd: hehe

Margaret Michalski: @ pionia if a teacher asks it is different. But if the department wants it then...total different story

Csteph Submariner: haha

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: he claims his business clients just walk away at the thought of an avatar, but they want bubbles

Katie Fenstalker: but once they are on it for school that makes for not using it as well for other things.

Zotarah Shepherd: Open ended questions work better.

Sheila Yoshikawa: @birdie agree that IS a creepy treehouse

Perplexity Peccable: Teachergirl Razor does a great thing

Perplexity Peccable: offers offline equivalents for SL instruction

Perplexity Peccable: but makes the SL part slightly easier ;)

Pionia Destiny: I see your point..

AJ Brooks: That was the most voted for topic suggestion. I didn't phrase it. :-)

Katie Fenstalker: likes TG way of doing it....

Profdan Netizen: That's intriguing, Lexi.

Perplexity Peccable: she gest a lot of student choosing teh SL portion

AJ Brooks: jsut a reminder folks - also - you can add topic ideas or vote for the ones that are already there

Perplexity Peccable: but no one is forced

Katie Fenstalker: Teacher Girl is tremendously creative.

AJ Brooks: margaret, do you have the URL handy for that?

Zotarah Shepherd: Maybe add. If so how?

AJ Brooks: I think this is it http://goo.gl/mod/FLSv

Margaret Michalski: give me a minute and I will get it up

AJ Brooks: no - thats not is, sorry folks - thanks Margaret 0- We'll wait for yours

Zotarah Shepherd: An aside. Are any of you in doctoral programs using SL?

Katie Fenstalker: n but wish I was

AJ Brooks: I will be studying VWs as part of my doctoral program

AJ Brooks: my focus is on social applications, including VWs

Perplexity Peccable: Teachergirl has several grad students working on dissertations based in SL

Zotarah Shepherd: I am looking for a PhD in education program where I can continue my research.

Margaret Michalski: Suggest and Vote for Future Meetings

1)For the VWER Reading Meetings, visit http://bit.ly/a1IRau

2)Have an idea for a meeting topic or theme?

Visit http://bit.ly/dkDynw and add yours, or vote what is currently there

3)Know someone who you think would make an excellent special guest to be interviewed? Click here: http://bit.ly/bHVzZk

Csteph Submariner: not yet Zo, but heading that way in the next year or so

Margaret Michalski: here are all

Margaret Michalski: lol

AJ Brooks: Thanks Margaret

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: thanks Margaret! I'll move those links to the top of the transcript

AJ Brooks: please go and vote - vote early, vote often

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: it am the hillbilly way :)

JimEd Monday: my advisor shot down SL as a topic

Zotarah Shepherd: I have a Education Thesis Collective meeting on Saturday at 5:30pm slt. All are welcome.

Zotarah Shepherd: Ok Csteph.

Profdan Netizen: Slurl,Zo?

Csteph Submariner: argh, kinda late for the UK otherwise I'd love to

Csteph Submariner: I may anyway

AJ Brooks: what is an Education Thesis Collective meeting?

Sheila Yoshikawa: who needs sleep, eh?

Csteph Submariner: hahaha

Csteph Submariner: sleep is for wimps

Margaret Michalski: needs more hours in a day

Zotarah Shepherd: A group for people working on thesis projects or research in education in SL. We have some PhD students there too.

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: @Csteph--say THAT in 20 years, sonny

JeanClaude Vollmar agrees with Margaret

AJ Brooks nods "thanks Z"

Csteph Submariner: haha, in 20 years I'll be retired for 5 years

Csteph Submariner: so it won't matter :)

AJ Brooks: FOLKS - BEFORE WE ALL START TO SPLIT UP - JUST WANTED TO TELL YOU THE TOPIC FOR NEXT WEEKS MEETING "Does SL enhance the learning experience?" I hope folsk will bring examples, from both yes and no perspective

AJ Brooks: if you didn't get it before :-)

AJ Brooks: it was very chatty at that point - may have scrolled by

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: good topic AJ, though I enjoy the Chao...I mean open forums :)

Margaret Michalski: does it have to be personal experiences?

AJ Brooks: thanks everyone for another GREAT roundtable

Margaret Michalski: or articles etc

Zotarah Shepherd: http://slurl.com/secondlife/Ralanora/130/126/22

Perplexity Peccable: lol, Iggy :)

AJ Brooks: anything, i guess, Margaret - is fine

Katie Fenstalker: thanks to all as usual.

Lali Latte: thank you

AJ Brooks: we'll do more open forums, I think

Sheila Yoshikawa: thanks

Perplexity Peccable wishes she could come more often

Margaret Michalski: ok

AJ Brooks: I like them too

Meredith Winslet: Yes -- it's intriguing

Marc Rexen: Thank you AJ.

Delenn Daines: g'night all!

Margaret Michalski: it is time already

AJ Brooks: Lexi - great to see you as always

Csteph Submariner: just wanted to share this pic from a nascent attempt at using VW fir teaching..

Csteph Submariner: http://users.ox.ac.uk/~csteph/tempest/

Profdan Netizen: Excellent discussion, thanks, AJ.

Margaret Michalski: geeze that flew by

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: see ya'll at the birthday bash soon

Margaret Michalski: thanks AJ

JimEd Monday: thanks AJ - fun as always

Zotarah Shepherd: This hour sure flew by

AJ Brooks: thanks everyone - have fun!

Csteph Submariner: nite nite all

AJ Brooks: see you next week

Zotarah Shepherd: Thanks AJ

Margaret Michalski: nite all

Sheila Yoshikawa: bye

Zotarah Shepherd: Bye

Daring Melody: By all

JeanClaude Vollmar: Bye everyone. Good to see you.

Pionia Destiny: Thanks.... I hope I can join you next meeting... safe paths... everyone..

AJ Brooks: later JC

Csteph Submariner: so, who was for crashing SL7B?

Perplexity Peccable: ciao!

Zotarah Shepherd: Where is it?

Csteph Submariner: no idea

Perplexity Peccable: lol

Csteph Submariner: I was hoping someone else knew :

AJ Brooks: guess they didn't do such a good job of getting the word out

Csteph Submariner: lol

AJ Brooks: if SL were a dog, it would be 49 now

Zotarah Shepherd: Wow there are lots of sims

Csteph Submariner: plus ça change..

Ignatius Onomatopoeia: hey, that's my age :)

AJ Brooks: but SL will be 6 years older than you next year, if it makes it

Csteph Submariner: aha, you only have 2 years on me

Margaret Michalski: you guys are too funny

Csteph Submariner: actually one

AJ Brooks: me too -

Csteph Submariner: now I count..

Margaret Michalski: missed you the passed few weeks

AJ Brooks: when do you leave for Poland?

Zotarah Shepherd: Something going on at SL7B Rare and Supernatural

Margaret Michalski: July 22nd-Aug 11th

Silhshoot Seelowe: bye folks, thanks for letting me sit in.

Margaret Michalski: so still around

AJ Brooks: come back anytime silhshoot