Transcript of Virtual Worlds Education Roundtable: May 25, 2010

Topic: Managing large classes in Second Life

Photos by Sheila Webba. Join our VWER group at Flickr and add your own pictures!

Iggy's note: I'm lazy this week, and stupidly I forgot my MS Word spell check before working with the transcript in Dreamweaver. So what you see is what you get in the good old summertime.

Olivia Hotshot: Hi everyone, and welcome to our weekly Virtual Worlds Education Roundtable meeting.

Olivia Hotshot: If you are sitting in the amphitheater seats, we ask you to come down and join us around the roundtable. There is always an empty seat closest to the ramp.

Olivia Hotshot: Our meetings are made possible by the Office of Information Technology at Montclair State University. We meet here each week at 230 pm SLT for an hour.

Olivia Hotshot: The Virtual Worlds Education Roundtable is a forum to educate and inform the community about issues that are important and relevant to education.

Olivia Hotshot: Today's meeting, Managing large classes in Second Life, will be in TEXT CHAT only.

Olivia Hotshot: The views and opinions of any of our special guests or visitors do not necessarily represent those who volunteer or organize these meetings, or of the College of Humanities and Social Sciences, Office of Information Technology , or Montclair State Univers

Olivia Hotshot: This is a public meeting, so we do keep a transcript of what is said in local chat. For a copy of transcripts, please visit http//www.vwer.org

Olivia Hotshot: <having huge chat lag>

Olivia Hotshot: Some of our transcripts are now available transcribed into a sound file. You can find them in iTunes Podcasts by searching for VWER.

Olivia Hotshot: <speak easy is not showing so hang in there>

Olivia Hotshot: The Virtual Worlds Education Roundtable meeting happens each week and we are looking to develop a community of educators from around the world with a variety of thoughts, needs, and ideas.

Margaret Michalski: same here

Olivia Hotshot: Please join the Virtual Worlds Education Roundtable group here in SL. You can also find us on Facebook, LinkedIn, Flicker, and KoinUp, as well as on Twitter as VWER.

Olivia Hotshot: Also, the VWER will visit to the 3rd Rock Grid on May 21st at 1:00pm SLT. Information to assist in creating an account and login to the 3rd Rock Grid is in the boxes at the bottom of the stairs. Click to get a notecard. See Margaret Michalski for more in

Olivia Hotshot: Finally, if you have Mystitool on, or other similar tool, please put it to sleep or detach it for now. -) It tends to lag things.

JB Hancroft: iTunes podcasts: thank you :)

Olivia Hotshot: I'm Olivia, today's moderator for this group, and hosting today for AJ Brooks. If you've not seen the transcripts Iggy runs, you should check them out - they are a great information asset.

Olivia Hotshot: Why don't we get started they way we usually do, by introducing ourselves.  No need to wait, go ahead and type who you are, where you are, and your ties to education into local chat. 

Olivia Hotshot: I am Ann Steckel, an educational technology consultant and educator from California State University, Chico.

Kali Pizzaro: Evelyn McElhinney Nurse Lecturer, RN Glasgow Caledonian University

quercas Minotaur: Tracy Villareal, UT, Austin, teching classes in SL

Birdie Newcomb: Birdie Newborn, wanderer

Mimi Muircastle: Mimi/Charlotte educator whereever I am

Profdan Netizen: I'm Dan Holt, professor at Lansing Community College, Lansing, MI. I teach writing, first year comp and creative writing.

Viv Trafalgar: Viv Trafalgar, interactive narrative and games designer, Rezzable; educator, builder

barbarathelibrarian Magic: Barbara Janson Johnson & Wales University Library studying learning communities in Second Life for my doctoral dissertation

Kathryn Pleides: Kathryn Frech, hs librarian and edtechie

Jims Seetan: hi I am Jim Sweetman consultant with the UK national college.

JB Hancroft: My name is JB Hancroft, and I am a fulltime SL and VW developer. I am interested in this session because I have a number of clients who are looking for 1000+ simultaneous students in a VW campus.

Zotarah Shepherd: I am a MA in Education (technology & psychology) student at Sonoma State University in northern California working on a curriculum project: Teaching and Learning Life Foundation Skills in Second Life.

Icsconnect Voom: Dick Huiras - ICS-Connect Center for Learning SL

Shaw Checchinato: James Shock, Iowa State University, HCI grad student.

Sheila Yoshikawa: I'm Sheila Webber, I teach at Sheffield University in the UK, but at the moment I'm in a hotel room in Prague, Czech REpublic so I'm feeling cool and globetrotting lol

Mary Roussel: I am Mary Pinto ... educational technologist ... Venezuela

Margaret Michalski: Margaret Czart, Research Information Specialist University of Illinois at Chicago

Callista Silvansky: Kimmy Hescock, visual info designer, Oregon State University

Olivia Hotshot: <38 on sim for the transcript>

cyber Placebo: Edith Paillat, Language technologist Victoria University of Wellington NZ

Kali Pizzaro: go Sheila

Kimira Davi: I am Kim Poteet, and I teach developmental reading and writing at Southern Illinois University Edwardsville.

Kalyan Horatio: Kalyan Chattopadhya, school of Education , University of Leeds

Bobb Kalamunda: bob hutchins, im a basic sicence educator at Baylor in dallas TX

Composite Maven: Terry Creasy, Texas A&M University

Decka Mah: Lindy McKeown Project Officer - Virtual Worlds University of Southern Queensland Australia

Annie Obscure: University of Houstion

Delenn Daines: Biology faculty, Henry Ford Community College, Dearborn Michigan

Olivia Hotshot smiles as the names keep coming. Anyone else?

IzzyLander Karu: A&M-Corpus Christi

Auden Breguet: Doug Dechow, Librarian, Chapman University, Orange, CA

4chaz Abbot: 4chaz abbot Research Faculty Co-Teaching of Mathematics and Physics to Underperforming College-Bound Students

Kali Pizzaro: Woop what a crows

Kali Pizzaro: crowd

Kali Pizzaro: oops

Mimi Muircastle: listening for the chirps, kali :)

Olivia Hotshot: Last call?

Olivia Hotshot: OK then lets start......

Kali Pizzaro: ;-P

Olivia Hotshot: Today's session will be a bit less formal than others in that most of us (i am assuming) have hot taught large classes in SL or held meetings with large groups.

Olivia Hotshot: not*

Olivia Hotshot: So, lets start off with a yes or no....... Have you taught or held group meetings for more than 25 people?

barbarathelibrarian Magic: no

JB Hancroft: yes

Kali Pizzaro: no

Mimi Muircastle: no

Mary Roussel: yes

Annie Obscure: yes

quercas Minotaur: yes

Jims Seetan: no

Julie Sugarplum: yes

Composite Maven: no

Delenn Daines: no

Bobb Kalamunda: no

IzzyLander Karu: No

Kimira Davi: no

Ju Roussel: y

Merryann Munster: no

Icsconnect Voom: Yes

Birdie Newcomb: not

Margaret Michalski: no

Callista Silvansky: no

Sheila Yoshikawa: yes, held meetings

Graham Mills: no

CD Texan: yes, held meetings

Birdie Newcomb: held one festival

Olivia Hotshot pastes I Voted stickers on all of you

Zotarah Shepherd: yes

Sheila Yoshikawa: and i have more than 25 students but not online at once

Profdan Netizen: Same here, Sheila.

Kalyan Horatio: no

4chaz Abbot: no

Mary Roussel: no

JIhan Wonder: hi Nice to meet everyone

Kali Pizzaro: Hi Jihan Join in

IzzyLander Karu makes up a huge number

Decka Mah: yes

Kali Pizzaro: so bigest class?

JB Hancroft: I taught a session at SLPro! that was about 120 people.

Olivia Hotshot: biggest i have done is here at VWER but 55 for an event.

Kali Pizzaro: biggest

Kali Pizzaro: who JB

Olivia Hotshot: SLPro! was fun JB! well done

JB Hancroft: ty :))

Kali Pizzaro: we had 90 in January

Olivia Hotshot: wow

cyber Placebo: wow

Olivia Hotshot: 120 is huge

JB Hancroft: My concern is how to get anywhere above 240 or so... in SL.

Sheila Yoshikawa: 40 - I only just found out how to up teh avatar limit on my sim ;-( ... but I was involved in the VWBPE of course - but not such a direct role

Olivia Hotshot: ok so lets start off with the scary stuff - what about teaching large numbers of people simultaneously presents obstacles or scariness?

Bobb Kalamunda: obstcles

Kathryn Pleides: lag!

Graham Mills: unpredictable

JB Hancroft: Obstacles of sim performance - if they are regular SL users, they come with <unknown> amounts of lag.

Delenn Daines: if they are newbies, the endless questions

Delenn Daines: if they are newbies, the endless questions

Delenn Daines: if they are newbies, the endless questions

Delenn Daines: if they are newbies, the endless questions

Delenn Daines: if they are newbies, the endless questions

Delenn Daines: if they are newbies, the endless questions

Profdan Netizen: crashing

Jims Seetan: teacing / presentation side is fine - technology is the issue

IzzyLander Karu: absolutely...lag and ability to follow discussion

Icsconnect Voom: pure lecture and no interactivity

barbarathelibrarian Magic: different computers and people struggling with voice, settings, etc.

Viv Trafalgar: rofl @Delenn

Zotarah Shepherd: lag and crashing

Kimira Davi: just like in RL it

Ju Roussel: JB, this might be impossible? (>240)

Kimira Davi: julst like in RL it is easier to detach in a large group

Mary Roussel: obstables .... lag ... crashing ... language

Decka Mah: Technical errors that put people off like students getting locked out with sim full messages

barbarathelibrarian Magic: people getting lost on the way

Viv Trafalgar: @JB - use 4 cornered sims with 75 on each... and no one moves a muscle

Olivia Hotshot: also maybe the logisitics of where they will all sit and be within hearing distance

Sheila Yoshikawa: A lot of planning of activities beforehand and preferably a team teaching, with responsibilities for different things

Jims Seetan: stupid question, how do you know the capacity of a sim?

JB Hancroft: The technical part - will my computer work - is similar to anyone using a desktop sharing app for the first time, etc.

JB Hancroft: Viv... yes - exactly.

Kathryn Pleides: Viv - and no fancy sim textures, grass, etc

Decka Mah: Pedagogical worries about having te3achign strategies thatgie students a worthwhile learning experience more than a talking head

barbarathelibrarian Magic: "there are no stupid questions" hehe

JB Hancroft: theoretically: 100. In practice: 50. Somewhere in between, if you push it.

Viv Trafalgar: and you need a group that works, or a media stream

Olivia Hotshot keeps listening - educators worry a lot!

Viv Trafalgar: or a chatbridge

Ju Roussel: Jims, that's in your agreement with LL. Full sim gets what? 75?

JB Hancroft: so unless my AV needs to be looking at your AV, we can be in different "arena", sharing the same experience

Jims Seetan: thanks

Birdie Newcomb: or a really interesting speaker

Graham Mills: Full = 100

Viv Trafalgar: and someone to tell people to take off their AOs

Decka Mah: Large groups might not even need to be anywhere near each other if they were doing something like an inquiry based task that involved going to all sorts of different places in SL in teams or small groups or individually

Birdie Newcomb: a helper

Ju Roussel: I tend to think that for numbers beyond 200, you need an alternative VW, not SL

Sheila Yoshikawa: sorry I think I gave my strategy rather than the problem - I think will always be someone/people who have urgent problems and need a bit of hand holding e.g. movement communication, so useful to have a co-teacher to pick those up

Profdan Netizen: Actually, one of the things I like about SL is that is limits the number of students to deal with at a time. Like in brick and mortar, we would try to get small computer classrooms so we didn't have so many students.

JB Hancroft: but the shared experience then add to the complexity of the logistics... chatbridge, sync of shared media, etc.

Olivia Hotshot: Ju, which VW would that be?

Viv Trafalgar: @Decka - then especially, group chat really needs to work

JB Hancroft: I'm looking at Teleplace for some meetings.

Jims Seetan: does voice make a difference?

Olivia Hotshot: Should SL classes have student caps like rl ones?

Ju Roussel: @Olivia, I encountered assemb live, but have not digged enough into it to say more.

Sheila Yoshikawa: and cross talking from groups could be an issue, so I have a number of locations a good distance apart

barbarathelibrarian Magic: how many people JB

cyber Placebo: 1 question: when we mean large groups are we talking conventional lectures here, then if this is the case no need for a VW

Profdan Netizen: Definitely, Olivia.

cyber Placebo: you can do this in a chatroom

JB Hancroft: My client has a need for approx. 600/time.

Kali Pizzaro: it is helpful if your students dont mute you (by mistake i think,mmmm)

Sheila Yoshikawa: lol Kali

Annie Obscure: silly question - why would you WANT to have large classes in SL?

Olivia Hotshot: Cyber - we are just saying large gatherings for the sake of information sharing - learning if possible =)

barbarathelibrarian Magic: oh my can't do that sorry

Olivia Hotshot: @Annie - to hear a guest speaker?

JB Hancroft: Annie - good question.

Jims Seetan: what is VW? apart from a car

cyber Placebo: information sharing means experiential learning?

Kali Pizzaro: can the students keep up with the chat

JB Hancroft: virtual world ;)

Jims Seetan: ta

cyber Placebo: VW are to experience and manipulate

JB Hancroft: de rien

cyber Placebo: if you deliver knowledge then I am not sure Sl is the right place

Kali Pizzaro: does it enable them to have time to reflect on what they want to say

Profdan Netizen: They're also to share and communicate, Cyber.

cyber Placebo: (JIM VW - Virtual World)

Sheila Yoshikawa: @Jims if only SLwas as reliable as a VW

Olivia Hotshot: @cyber - do you doubt that VWs are places for content/knoweldge delviery?

Jims Seetan: thanks dur :)

Decka Mah: I have a scripted building that holds 35 and flies apart into break out rooms and comes back together for whole group. It works well to manage that sized group and could be made to handle larger groups for discussions if we modified it

JB Hancroft: Unless there is a huge pre-existing investment in SL... then it's about the experience, and the material, and the interaction

Kali Pizzaro: Sounds great Decka

Jims Seetan: v intersting decka

Profdan Netizen: Sounds cool, Decka.

Ju Roussel: JB and others with big numbers ambitions, tell us more - are those supposed to be large scenario plays? Certainly 600 does not sound like a lecture hall any longer.

Kali Pizzaro: yes @JB

JB Hancroft: I use similar "holodeck" approach, to reduce lag

Callista Silvansky: decka: i want one, thats awesome

JB Hancroft: this is for corporate training

Jims Seetan: decka, how about a look round at some time?

cyber Placebo: @ Olivia do you doubt that VWs are places for content/knoweldge delviery? no I don't but I don't think it is right for large lecture delivery but group reflection, experiential learning etc

Olivia Hotshot: OK folks, lets reign it back in - we're talking about obstacles, worries, things we fear might impede education

cyber Placebo: there are a lot of other tools online that can potentially help information sharing

Olivia Hotshot: Good point @cyber

JB Hancroft: Olivia... the first hurdle is that unless people are used to the platform (SL or another) there is the learning of that...

Kalyan Horatio: who determines how to use sl and for what?

Kalyan Horatio: I think we the teachers and our adult learners

Profdan Netizen: How do you handle orientation for large groups?

Ju Roussel: rememberign FCVW, you invest in tutorials on how-to use heavily.

Kali Pizzaro: i think it is useful to invest time into teaching the basics before the more serious stuff starts

Kali Pizzaro: i certainly found it invaluable so did the students

Kalyan Horatio: I teach ESL communication and for me more than 10 learners are difficult to handle.

Profdan Netizen: Kali, how much time do you think is right to teach the basics first?

Jims Seetan: life dicates that we have more often so how do we handle them?

Olivia Hotshot: Ok so to summarize - in a small fashion - we worry: lag, structures that are inadequate, unprepared students, technical difficulties, training, and poor software reliability?

Sheila Yoshikawa: I don't think it's worth using at all unless you are going to do something extended in it - I mean I don't see any point in getting people inworld for a one-shot

Decka Mah: I hold parties for orientation on a playdeck with a DJ taking requests and lots of interactive games and toys so people learn to use all the interface and the comms tools and have fun and teach each other the "cool" tools

JB Hancroft: I have found that there is an expectation of zero acclimation time... people know how to use email, spreadsheets, a browset, etc.

Kali Pizzaro: well i had a smaller clas but they picked it up in an hour with a handbook they could look at also

barbarathelibrarian Magic: Decka that sounds great

Olivia Hotshot: OK< lets shift gears a bit - what tools do we have that might help to prevent glitches or ease training or content delivery?

JB Hancroft: Decka - that's wonderful :)

cyber Placebo: @Decka can we come?

Ju Roussel: not putting effort into readiness factor results on loss of effectiveness

Olivia Hotshot: @ju - good point

JB Hancroft: For a large event, I worry like an "expectant father"

Decka Mah: We have to take care not to turn them off Secodn Life before the class even starts with boring structured tutorisls

Sheila Yoshikawa: including explaining and *discusing* beforehand whythey ae doin it

Decka Mah: People learn best with a challenge and some fun

Jims Seetan: once we deal with orientation and presentation will sl cope with the crowd?

Mimi Muircastle: another good pt. @Decka

JB Hancroft: Decka - I like the idea of a party and a DJ :))

Jims Seetan: me too

Kali Pizzaro: yeah that is why you make it fun (but shoosh dont tell anyone)

Kali Pizzaro: ;-P

JB Hancroft: Depending on the group, competitions can be a way to get people "going".

Decka Mah: PAty strategy is teach the first person to arrive 1 thing

Ju Roussel had 900+ professors and postgrads once expected to use a simple tool of a wiki :) and not insisted enough on creating/publishing tutorials prior to project start. Big mistake. Huge.

Decka Mah: they have to show one other

Jims Seetan: treasure hunts work well

Olivia Hotshot: Do you think that the speakeasy might be a good tool for people?

Decka Mah: teach each person 1 different thing in the environment eg. IM the DJ a request, click a pose ball to arm wrestle etc

JB Hancroft writes with Sharpie on forearm: "treasure hunt"

Graham Mills: Hmm, have to get them back to base to start if you disperse them

Kali Pizzaro: it is interesting AJ made a comment about this once. His students complained because they could not play the youtube video in bb

Kali Pizzaro: but how do they do it normally

Jims Seetan: i like the practical approach decka

Kali Pizzaro: sometimes you just need to get in there and do it

Kali Pizzaro: it is good to instruct in voice if you are at a distance i found

Decka Mah: Graham, maybe getting back to base is a part of the event you plan like the scavenger hunt or a race

Jims Seetan: i'm assuming that we have willing adult learners

JB Hancroft: there seem to be two major schools of thought: 1) follow these lessons, and 2) holisitic... learn it as you experience it

Graham Mills: lol, what if they "fail"

Jims Seetan: group chat does that kali

Kali Pizzaro: yeah but i had a problem with it

Kali Pizzaro: it would not let all participate

Jims Seetan: i have only used it wioth about ten people

Decka Mah: Graham build in the support ...I send them a printable cheat sheet and you can use email outside the world to get people who bail out back in too

Kali Pizzaro: yeah i had only 8 that time

Olivia Hotshot: One of the things i think we do well here at VWER is the signage for tech support and the live support (Margaret) during meetings

cyber Placebo: @JB Immersive environment lends itself to holistic, experiential

cyber Placebo: but some students are very clingy

Profdan Netizen: Do any of you use backup IM, like AIM or Skype?

cyber Placebo: and need everything spelled out

Annie Obscure: I came to see if anybody had guidelines for building a large 'apex' auditorium - I'll be building one soon

Mary Roussel: yes cyber

Kali Pizzaro: i found my students helping each other and i had less to do

barbarathelibrarian Magic: google chat

barbarathelibrarian Magic: with my assistant guide during tours

cyber Placebo: others are flying away like puppies

Sheila Yoshikawa: @jb, well I wasn't actually advocating "lessons" before you go in "being prepared" is mostly me setting things up for them going in, and giving them reasons why and getting them to register an avatar - certainly wouldn't give lessons on how to move in SL before they went in!

Bobb Kalamunda: i find trying to teach the faculty a bigger problem than the students

JB Hancroft: cyber ... different people, yes; so not just one solution

Decka Mah: Cyber that is becasue of different learnign styles ..see Honey and Mumford

Jarrad Voom: Student helping students is cool.

JB Hancroft: Sheila :)

Kali Pizzaro: mm we could argue that one all day Decka

Ju Roussel: Annie, those guideliness sound like a good candidate for a SL wiki article.

Kali Pizzaro: yep Jarrod

Jims Seetan: learning as a social activity - wenger in practice

Delenn Daines: I talk to my students with a conference call, everyone has a phone but not necessaryily a headset

Decka Mah: Video clips from youtube help give people a mental model of what they are about to expereince too

Kali Pizzaro: yeah i found they created their own etiquete

Kali Pizzaro: oh spelling

Kali Pizzaro: hahah

JB Hancroft: Annie - talk with CJ Carnot from NMC.

Olivia Hotshot: OK, another slant please?? What skills does one need to handle these large groups? How do these skills differ from a partcipant?

cyber Placebo: Wel your environment has to be welcoming and informative enought to help you

Olivia Hotshot: (ignore the grammar folks )

Olivia Hotshot: hehe

Birdie Newcomb: listening while talking

JB Hancroft: "herding cats"

Sheila Yoshikawa: @Jarrad though you can also get students pushing students over and so forth, they get boisterous which is great, but i also find i have to monitor for bullying....

cyber Placebo: loads of signs everytwhere

Delenn Daines: you need a helper to answere questions

Sheila Yoshikawa: it's a fine line

JB Hancroft: ++Birdie... agreed. Multi-tasking and trouble-shooting.

Callista Silvansky: patience ;)

Ju Roussel: time management, with precision of a Swiss watch

Kali Pizzaro: interesting Sheila health students tend to behave and not wander we have found

Olivia Hotshot: ok, so we need a Swiss helper i see. =)

Zotarah Shepherd: With large groups you need more assistants

JB Hancroft: heh

Sheila Yoshikawa: yes, helpers and that's where SL is great, can call on people in other parts of the country to just drop in and help for an hour

Jims Seetan: we all agree on co-facilitation i think

IzzyLander Karu agrees with JB's herding of cats

Kali Pizzaro: Sheila mm sounds familiar

Kali Pizzaro: hehe

Olivia Hotshot: One of the skills i have had to get better at is reading the chat for meaning - not details and saving the details for later.

Annie Obscure: kali - that's funny, ours wander all over.

Birdie Newcomb: I used rangers to help against possible griefing

Decka Mah: Would it be feasible to train up some student mentors in advance or else consript some volunteers form within the SL community. I had so many owonderful vounteers help me build my island

Kali Pizzaro: we must be scary

Jims Seetan: yes, i'm working on that decka, organic growth

Olivia Hotshot: @Decka - i use student volunteers as well. They are really reliable and seem to enjoy it.

You decline Caledon Oxbridge Lecture Hall, Caledon Oxbridge (76, 140, 29) from A group member named Charlie Navarathna.

Annie Obscure: It could be the space

Kali Pizzaro: doea it make a difference f your studnets are in a private area of your island

Birdie Newcomb: Having them all in one group would be a big help, you could dole out permissions, send notices

Kali Pizzaro: yes i make groups for my folk

Sheila Yoshikawa: yes, make groups

Jims Seetan: yes i use groups to organise, retreive people

Kali Pizzaro: takes funds of course

Kali Pizzaro: then kick them out at the end of the module reuse the group

JB Hancroft: heh

Kali Pizzaro: ;-)

Olivia Hotshot: Another skill one needs for managing large groups is to be able to create a group, ad people, form roles and send notices. This is helpful for communication before and after meetings/classes.

Decka Mah: On USQ Island we made little parcels for the home place for various groups so they can just hit home and end up back at their marshalling area

Birdie Newcomb: good, a home base is handy

Kali Pizzaro: yes i do that to i get them to set home

Jims Seetan: we use notecards for everything

Jims Seetan: and ahome base

Decka Mah: How do people manage the naming conventions so they know which student is which avatar?

Olivia Hotshot: Is anyone using signage with the multi-media on a prim option?

cyber Placebo: Oh DECKA would you be happy to give us a tour of your island and activities?

Sheila Yoshikawa: yes, I create homes for each class now, somewhere they feel is their own space, in the sky

IzzyLander Karu: has or does any of you select individual students to be team captain/group leaders for your groups?

cyber Placebo: This is such a great idea homes for groups

Birdie Newcomb: Do any of you use a specific teleport portal?

JB Hancroft: For me - it depends if the organization has a policy about that.

Jims Seetan: using role play we are inventing some generic avatars using hotmail addresses

Profdan Netizen: I've done so, Izzy, later in the semester.

Kali Pizzaro: yeah i teach tem to tp each other and tell them to tp if any one gets lost

barbarathelibrarian Magic: it's wonderful

barbarathelibrarian Magic: i just started using the multi media on a prim option

IzzyLander Karu: @ Profdan, has that been a benefit to you and your students?

JB Hancroft: Birdie - I use my own scripted tool, adapted for the client.

Kali Pizzaro: not yet but will do next semester

Annie Obscure: We have one lecture class that meets regularly in world - I always make sure I'm in the sim and watching the minimap -

Annie Obscure: it's pretty obvious when a student is lost

JB Hancroft: A simple two-button HUD works well: 1) Home 2) Help

Decka Mah: @Cyber sure we could do that

Profdan Netizen: Definitely--that way I don't have to moderate all small group chats, or SL field trips.

Kali Pizzaro: ah good idea JB

Birdie Newcomb: lost sheep

JB Hancroft: Help is tied into a Mentor list

Olivia Hotshot: @Birdie, excellent idea

Birdie Newcomb: That's where Emerald's radar would be handy

Olivia Hotshot: I believe Viv spoke about Chatbridge earlier. Does everyone know what it is and why one would need it?

Birdie Newcomb: no

Graham Mills: But then you have to teach them about HUDs as well

barbarathelibrarian Magic: no

barbarathelibrarian Magic: woulld like to...

Jims Seetan: how is it diferent from group talk please?

JB Hancroft: Graham... just "click on the button".. :)

JIhan Wonder: what is chatbridge

Kali Pizzaro: is it in a webpage

IzzyLander Karu: most excellent Profdan. thats what i encourage too....similar to group work in f2f clases

Kali Pizzaro: out of world

Ju Roussel: any good instruction on how to set chatbridge up?

Graham Mills: You have to get the HUD to them and then wear it

Olivia Hotshot: waiting to see if i can spot Viv to answer - but i can

Profdan Netizen: Exactly, Izzy.

Olivia Hotshot: Chatbridge is used for large groups so everyone can hear the conversation in text or voice

Profdan Netizen: Do any of you use SL, along with an LMS and other Web 2.0 apps?

JB Hancroft: Graham - yes, I've included that as part of the orientation, but that's just my approach to it.

Olivia Hotshot: it bridges the sim lines - extends the reach of communication

Birdie Newcomb: Is Chatbridge an SL product?

Graham Mills: Every solution adds to the problem ;)

JB Hancroft: heh...

Annie Obscure: http://www.intersectionunlimited.com/ourproducts.html

Olivia Hotshot: No - it is not - and can be used in other VW

IzzyLander Karu: Olivia, perhaps you can point to info/resource for chatbridges

Sheila Yoshikawa: don't you sometimes get echo with chatbridges?

Profdan Netizen: Also, out to 2D web, Olivia?

Olivia Hotshot: http://www.intersectionunlimited.com/serendipity/index.php?/archives/9-ChatBridge-Connects-with-Public-IM-Clients!.html

Mimi Muircastle: ty @Olivia

barbarathelibrarian Magic: thank you Olivia

Olivia Hotshot: it can allow people not logged in to see it yes Prof dan

Mary Roussel: thks Olivia

Kali Pizzaro: cheers

Ju Roussel: yes but... any opensource alternative?

Olivia Hotshot: http://sl.nmc.org/2008/08/07/chatbridge-interview-with-chase-marellan/

Annie Obscure: for the record, 40 people in this sim now :-)

Olivia Hotshot: lots out there on the net for people

Olivia Hotshot: Shelia, yes you can

Kali Pizzaro: Just a thought to those who teach large classes


Kali Pizzaro: if you had a choice would you cut the class size

IzzyLander Karu: someone mentioned one of the use of SL for delivery to large groups is guest speakers. has anyone done what where the speaker is not in SL, but being streamed into sl?

Olivia Hotshot: Annie asked a bit earlier about recommendations for builds to hold lots of avatars - any suggestions folks?

Ju Roussel: and what this sim is using? definitely distances between avatars het more than 20 meters here?

Profdan Netizen: Good back up if students can't get inworld for some reason.

Olivia Hotshot: Izzy, yes, we have done it here in VWER from Educause in denver

Annie Obscure: rather than deal with 'herding cats' professors and voice in SL I've held in world meetings with a conference call on phone

JB Hancroft: IzzyLander - not yet. Not for a large group.

Olivia Hotshot: and Metanomics has done some presentaions with mixed relaity

Composite Maven: Yes, we streamed a live speaker into SL

Olivia Hotshot: recommendations for builds ??? anyone? =)

Annie Obscure: on the subject - some people may not know the 'apex' trick - build an amphitheater at the corner or 'apex' of a sim,

IzzyLander Karu: great, where might i find some information on logistic, technical needs to be able to set up such an inworld feed?

Ju Roussel: you can do your own with ustrem, no? (referring to SLED here)

Annie Obscure: it spreads the load among servers

Mimi Muircastle: RL mtg. apologies for leaving early

Kali Pizzaro: take care mim

Olivia Hotshot: Bye Mimi

Zotarah Shepherd: Bye Mimi

IzzyLander Karu: bye Mimi

Sheila Yoshikawa: bye

JB Hancroft: If you are aware of the Relay For Life, there are some pretty good "anti-lag" building techniques that have been put together, based on several years of experience

Jarrad Voom: by Mimi

JB Hancroft: bye Mimi :)

Olivia Hotshot: JB, along with low lag clothing choices too

cyber Placebo: @ Izzy I have seen it done with Adobe connect pro on a prim

JB Hancroft: MamaP Beerbaum has the Notecard on that.

Oronoque Yarrowroot: @Ju, with the viewer 2 you can use UStream

Jarrad Voom: on what JB?

cyber Placebo: for people who weren't on SL and for epople on SL

IzzyLander Karu: thanks Cyber.

Sheila Yoshikawa: Kate Miranda has given some good advice about low lag venues, she arranges large scale concerts

JB Hancroft: The notecard from Relay For Life - suggested building techniques to keep lag to a minimum.

Ju Roussel: Oro, yes that is what I meant.

Annie Obscure: JB do you have that notecard?

Profdan Netizen: @cyber, text only, or voice as well with Adobe?

Olivia Hotshot: Maybe educators need to take their cues from musicians and non-profits - they seem to be holding large events

Jarrad Voom: JB do you hve that notecard?

Ju Roussel: JB, please share the notecard?

Ju Roussel: could we have it in a cube on this table? ;)

Olivia Hotshot: JB if you get the card i will share it with the group

JB Hancroft: I do...

Kali Pizzaro: are you folks letting students create there own avatars then inviting them all into a gorup

Kali Pizzaro: their

Profdan Netizen: That's what I do, Kali.

Kali Pizzaro: is it laborious

Kali Pizzaro: oh my spelling

Annie Obscure: NCI holds a number of events each week that fill the sim limits

Graham Mills: The recent Alice in WonderSLand was good -- 55 incl cast and audience

Annie Obscure: I wonder about how large to make the stage area.

Merryann Munster: Yes, Alice in WonderSland managed quite well

Kali Pizzaro: what about simulations? does anyone do those with large classes

Olivia Hotshot: excellent point about Alice - @Merryann

JB Hancroft: should be set for $L0 buy

barbarathelibrarian Magic: thank you

Sheila Yoshikawa: @kali that's what i do

Ju Roussel: Thank You JB!

Birdie Newcomb: ty

Kali Pizzaro: hwo do you manage them.

Mary Roussel: ty

Annie Obscure: We frequently have > 30 students in the KIN 4315 path at the same time

Kali Pizzaro: as they are best done in smaller gorups me thinks

Kali Pizzaro: or do you diagree

Oronoque Yarrowroot looks under her wabbit feet to see if she is on an apex

Kali Pizzaro: disagree

JB Hancroft wonders if the wabbit feet are made of prims

Annie Obscure: Kali - we have a long 'lesson path' - it's a self paced activity, but it's for a RL college class, the students are students, they all come at the same time

Kali Pizzaro: ok so you dont need to facilitate it

Kali Pizzaro: they come when they need

Kali Pizzaro: or want?

Annie Obscure: LOL - when the assignments is due

barbarathelibrarian Magic: we have a lesson path also

Kali Pizzaro: now now

Kali Pizzaro: hehe

Annie Obscure: no, but I do try to be in the sim.

Kali Pizzaro: sure

Profdan Netizen: What do you mean by a lesson path?

Annie Obscure: that works well - we have 'help poles' when the students touch them I get 'summoned'

Kali Pizzaro: ok so i have a health sim i dont want to be there all the time but i want to see their discussion

Kali Pizzaro: nursing

Kali Pizzaro: simulation

Ju Roussel: Kali, a simple script, then.

Olivia Hotshot: OK folks as we wind down the chattering - i have a question.... how many people would you be willing to "teach" in a SL class....... obstacles be damned.... and no lag (coughs)?

Kali Pizzaro: so i come in to cut and paste it

JB Hancroft: chat logging is easy

Annie Obscure: it's a long trough like area with interactive, almost museum like 'exhibits' along it.

Profdan Netizen: Or have a moderator send you a chat transcript, Kali.

JB Hancroft: the av positioning and movement, if you need that recorded when you're not there... is harder.

barbarathelibrarian Magic: it is a path that has notecards and they try the tasks associated with each station, progressing to increasingly more difficult tasks as they proceed along the path

Profdan Netizen: ty, Annie.

Kali Pizzaro: yeah i get tehm to drop it into a troley and it emails me direct

Ahlan Oh: ay!

IzzyLander Karu love to teach in SL

Kali Pizzaro: trolley

Profdan Netizen: ty, Barbara.

Kali Pizzaro: mm olivia

Kali Pizzaro: no big classess if i could help it

barbarathelibrarian Magic: yw

Kali Pizzaro: ;-)

Olivia Hotshot: still waiting to hear numbers and thinking you all might chicken out. =)

Marnie Mehler: I'd give it a try

Olivia Hotshot: Personally i like the number 20.

Ju Roussel: Kali, you can leave chat loggers, or objects that forward chat to you (which I suppose, is how chatbridge works, too)

Kali Pizzaro: 24

Birdie Newcomb: not ready for prime time...

Dorsey Titanium: the most i taught was 45 at one time

Graham Mills: 20 is good for a single teacher

Olivia Hotshot: Way to go @Marnie

Kali Pizzaro: sure Ju we are also intergrating Sl and BB to do that

Olivia Hotshot: good point @Graham

barbarathelibrarian Magic: 20 no more yet :)

JB Hancroft: I'm ok with 20 - 30... living on the edge ;)

Oronoque Yarrowroot: I could deal with larger classes if every AV had the same surname

Olivia Hotshot: Bye Jarrod

Kali Pizzaro: but jsut tryting it out

Birdie Newcomb: 45 was wearing in RL

Jarrad Voom: Thanks all must run.

Kali Pizzaro: haha Oronoque

Bobb Kalamunda: 15 preferred, max 20

Merryann Munster: Just an FYI...there are many of us in the SL community that might not be affiliated with a University, but are experienced, patient and willing to help new people. If you need mentors, perhaps reaching out to the greater community might be an idea.

Annie Obscure: depends on the subject -

Oronoque Yarrowroot: Brian Mnemoni has tons of little namesakes

Kali Pizzaro: great merryann

JB Hancroft: Agreed, Merryann.

IzzyLander Karu: I would say > 20 if there were support avaialable - SL-TA perhaps

Annie Obscure: and I'd heartily agree with Merryann

Kali Pizzaro: maybe we need a wee list of folks

Olivia Hotshot: Ohhh SL TA - good one.

Graham Mills: It would be great to have a flashmob just to test for lag

Kali Pizzaro: ta?

Profdan Netizen: You know, that would be a good thing to give to students, a list of avies who could help out in world if they have problems?

IzzyLander Karu: TA = Teaching Assistants

JB Hancroft: there are lists in the SL Wiki

Kali Pizzaro: mine dont get out of our clinical skills lab haha

Olivia Hotshot: @Profdan - i like that idea

barbarathelibrarian Magic: New Citizens group is wonderful and they are online at all odd hours

JB Hancroft: of people who are willing to be contacted for various things... building, scripting, etc.

Annie Obscure: We give our students a web page of useful slurls - NCI Kuula is on the list.

Viv Trafalgar: need to run - thanks for the great conversation

Kali Pizzaro: cheers Viv

Annie Obscure: I need to run as well

IzzyLander Karu: take care viv

Profdan Netizen: What about with tech help--let's say voice isn't working, or a student is having problems with lag?

JB Hancroft: bye Viv - tc

IzzyLander Karu: bye Annie

Oronoque Yarrowroot: this little wabbit has never seen a TA and all her RL classes are 45+

Shaw Checchinato: @Profdan...good idea.

Sheila Yoshikawa: it depen ds how many helpers, and what you are trying to o, if groups are feeding back into larger groups (e.g. after an activity) about 20-25 per get-together group, but you could have more than one going, they can feed back to each other, I do that in RL classes...

Mary Roussel: a tech assistant is always needed

Sheila Yoshikawa: sorry lagging behind there

Annie Obscure: @Profdan - we have 'help poles'. If you touch it I get an IM if I'm in world, with a slurl, and come.

Profdan Netizen: That was one of my biggest problems last semester, esp. since our students can't get tech help from our college IT yet with SL.

IzzyLander Karu: hehe, Oronoque, i doubt many get TAs with that class size

Annie Obscure: if I'm not, I get an email and SMS message

Annie Obscure: we're determined that SL not be frustrating.

Sheila Yoshikawa: Librarians have helped me ;-))

Oronoque Yarrowroot: would integration with a CMS (a la SLoodle) make things easier?

IzzyLander Karu: but, in sl, i think you'll need one if you have large classes due to all the things that could go wrong

barbarathelibrarian Magic: we have google group which helps with communicatoin

Oronoque Yarrowroot: @IzzyLander, that is one class, but I have three

Olivia Hotshot: Well folks, my time here today is at an end. I ant to thank you all for coming. Look for the transcript soon and thanks to Margaret for keeping it today.

barbarathelibrarian Magic: thank you this was great

Kali Pizzaro: cheers all

Profdan Netizen: Thanks, Olivia.