Transcript of Virtual Worlds Education Roundtable: April 20, 2010
Topic: Reading Meeting on "Press Enter to 'Say': Using Second Life to Teach Critical Media Literacy"
Thanks to Sheila Webber for the photos. Join our VWER group at Flickr and add your own pictures!
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Hi everyone, and welcome to our weekly Virtual Worlds Education Roundtable meeting.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: If you are sitting in the amphitheater seats, we ask you to come down and join us around the roundtable. There is always an empty seat closest to the ramp.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Our meetings are made possible by the Office of Information Technology at Montclair State University. We meet here each week at 2:30 pm SLT for an hour.
Mimi Muircastle: is this voice?
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: The Virtual Worlds Education Roundtable is a forum to educate and inform the community about issues that are important and relevant to education.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: text chat today, Mimi
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Today is our monthly reading meeting and it will be in TEXT CHAT only
Mimi Muircastle: whew:)
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: The views and opinions of any of our special guests or visitors do not necessarily represent those who volunteer or organize these meetings,
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: or of the College of Humanities and Social Sciences, Office of Information Technology , or Montclair State University.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: This is a public meeting, so we do keep a transcript of what is said in local chat. For a copy of transcripts, please visit http://www.vwer.org
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Some of our transcripts are now available transcribed into a sound file. You can find them in iTunes Podcasts by searching for VWER.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: The Virtual Worlds Education Roundtable meeting happens each week and we are looking to develop a community of educators from around the world with a variety of thoughts, needs, and ideas.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Please join the Virtual Worlds Education Roundtable group here in SL. You can also find us on Facebook, LinkedIn, Flicker, and KoinUp, as well as on Twitter as VWER.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Finally, if you have Mystitool on, or other similar tool, please put it to sleep or detach it for now. :-) It tends to lag things.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: I'm Iggy, the scribe for this group, and I'm hosting today for AJ Brooks. If you've not seen the transcripts I run, you should check them out - they are a great information asset.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: We have two special guests on hand today to discuss their article "Press Enter to 'Say': Using Second Life to Teach Critical Media Literacy"
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Ondine and Jennifer
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Stephanie Vie is an Assistant Professor of Composition and Rhetoricin at Fort Lewis College.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: She is also the Project Editor for Computers and Composition Digital Press, Assistant Editor for Kairos: A Journal of Rhetoric, Technology, and Pedagogy,
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: and copyeditor for Community Literacy Journal. Her research and teaching interests include social networking sites, video games, and Japanese anime.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Jennifer deWinter is an Assistant Professor and Co-Director Professional Writing at Worcester Polytechnic Institute.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Her research & teaching interests include new media theory and praxis; spatial and visual rhetorics; histories and theories of rhetoric;
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: post-colonial theory; Japanese rhetoric and culture.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Why don't we get started they way we usually do, by introducing ourselves. No need to wait, go ahead and type who you are, where you are, and your ties to education into local chat.
Ondine Viertz: hi all, Stephanie = Ondine
Kali Pizzaro: Evelyn McElhinney Nurse Lecturer, RN Glasgow Caledonian University
Jennifer Darkbyrd: Jennifer = Jennifer
LoCE99Ch8 Morpork: Rosanna Brown, Lassen Community College Library, Susanville (northeastern), California, rbrown@lassencollege.edu, @RbrownLassen. In world, call me Lo.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia is Joe Essid, Dept. of Rhetoric and Communication Studies. I'm the University of Richmond's Writing Center and Writing Across the Curriculum Director. I've taught four courses with SL. I'm part of a design team building an immersive simulation of Poe's House of Usher, to launch in Spring 2010.
Margaret Michalski: Margaret Czart, Research Information Specialist from the Universty of Illinos at Chicago.
Firery Broome: University of Delaware
Matt Medina: John Marino, teacher-librarian and tech coach, currently grad student and researcher at UW
Grinn Pidgeon: Dr. Barbara Pittman, Cuyahoga Community College, Cleveland, Ohio. Faculty Development/Instructional technology/English teacher
Maximum Goldshark: Student, teacher credential candidate, CSU, Chico (Jim Aird)
Jimmie Veeper: Jim Fullerton, teacher
Viv Trafalgar: Viv Trafalgar, Interactive and Immersive Narrative Designer, Rezzable; teacher, writer, Iggy lets me write on his blog sometimes.
Zotarah Shepherd: I am a MA in Education (technology & psychology) student at Sonoma State University in northern California working on a curriculum project: Teaching and Learning Life Foundation Skills in Second Life. Visit my Immersive Interactive Educational builds on Ralanora. I also have a build for Multiple Intelligences just moved to Ralanora.
Sheila Yoshikawa: Sheila Webber, School of Information, Sheffield University, UK
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: others?
Olivia Hotshot: Ann Steckel, California State University, Chico - academic technologies, consultamt, sl campus custodian
Mimi Muircastle: Mimi/Charlotte - retired mid. sch. prin. nonprofit interests and wandering educator in SL
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: going once, as AJ says,
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: twice
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: sold to the giant steampunk robot I hid under the floor!
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: today I'll begin with a few questions for our authors
Viv Trafalgar: aw i told you not to leave that there Iggy
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: and we'll open the floor to chat in a bit
Ignatius Onomatopoeia grins at Viv :0
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: here's a link to last week's talk
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: to our authors, In your own teaching with SL, how did you encourage reflective work by your students?
Ondine Viertz: I am interested particularly in having students reflect on avatars and avatar creation
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: yes, a good topic in my own sections
Ondine Viertz: Which was kind of the tack we took in the article itself
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: any surprises from the class?
Ondine Viertz: @Iggy, yes, I was interested in the assignment where you had students try out a new avatar and reflect on it
Jennifer Darkbyrd: I guess that it really depends on the class that I am teaching. I just came off of teaching a visual rhetoric course, and in that, I had students play with 2nd life and Habbo Hotel and talk about how the visual interface necessarily changes the types of interactions
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: so, Jennifer, they compare the two worlds?
Ondine Viertz: uhhh yes, in that students tend to pick out the "hot" avatars, tend to be thin, white, "typical" standards of beauty
Jennifer Darkbyrd: In the study of writing, I had two groups of students set up studies that ethnogrpahically studied how people wrote/said things in 2nd life and see if avatars and the looks of the avatars affected what was said
Jennifer Darkbyrd: Yes, they compare the words
Jennifer Darkbyrd: Theoretically, the two are attempting to get at the same purpose
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: some here may not know Habbo Hotel
Jennifer Darkbyrd: a simulated social space
Jennifer Darkbyrd: Habbo is wildly popular in Europe as a hangout space
Jennifer Darkbyrd: the visual format always reminds me of leggo people
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: my students tended not to like 2.5D worlds like MetaPlace
Jennifer Darkbyrd: and the spaces are rooms that avatars own and decorate
Jennifer Darkbyrd: and then hang out in
Jennifer Darkbyrd: Compare this to second life, where space seems limitless, and the interactions necessarily change
Jennifer Darkbyrd: Also, the prejudices in Habbo and SL are different
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: tell us more...in your article, you discussed racism
Ondine Viertz: It's interesting that the possibilities and the space are limitless, yet most of us are sitting here in relatively human form :)
Jennifer Darkbyrd: SL sexualizes avatars--someone said something about this in this chat
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Habbo does not, I presume
Jennifer Darkbyrd: whereas habbo plays around with ethnic groups more
Jennifer Darkbyrd: While students and I have run into racism in SL, it's more prevalent in Habbo, I would argue
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: I'll snag some Habbo pics for the transcript
Jennifer Darkbyrd: sexual harassment is more prevalent in SL
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: yes, in SL it seemed that furries are the ones who face displaced racism
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: how did your help students deal with sexism / racism in both worlds?
Jennifer Darkbyrd: I think that the furry phenomenon as a whole has made that group the whipping representation
Jennifer Darkbyrd: One thing that I ask students to do is just go in and play
Ondine Viertz: particularly with my students, we did a lot of talking about/theorizing about what SL would be like before even going in for the first time
Ondine Viertz: Sort of the opposite of Jen's view
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: very different approaches
Ondine Viertz: yes
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: how did it work for you both?
Ondine Viertz: I think each has its advantages
Ondine Viertz: For us, I think we maybe ended up over-talking it so that students lost a little of that sense of "let's just see what happens" before trying it for the first time
Jennifer Darkbyrd: They tend to minorly adapt a generic avatar. But then I ask them, after a week (10 hours) to change radically. Go in as the different sex, race, ability--something! Students have these amazing transcripts of a massive change in interaction, action, and perception
Ondine Viertz: I go back and forth--I'd likely do it differently next time
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: I tend to take them in in stages
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: but that means it takes time to get to the more "dangerous" assignments like switching gender
Ondine Viertz: I think in some ways, we can overtalk things in the beginning and get students all hyped up for a type of SL experience (or any in-game experience) that may not match up to what actually happens for them
Ignatius Onomatopoeia nods...true.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: brings me to a Q about dangerous content
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: How did you derive the 30% figure for adult content in SL that you cite on page 318? More often one hears from James Au that 5% is the correct percentage. I've long doubted that claim.
Ondine Viertz: @Iggy, yes, I think because of the interaction with others--that's not controlled in any way--it's important to start small
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: right--NMC and our island, not Ahern :)
Ondine Viertz: It's interesting because it takes us to the issue of defining adult content. What exactly "counts" as adult content in SL? How do we measure this?
Olivia Hotshot: why not use the Linden definition?
Ondine Viertz: But that claim (30%) was Philip Linden's
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: I think Au and LL are using that, as Olivia says--cybersex, etc.
Ondine Viertz: @Olivia, I believe that's where the 30% came from that Au disagrees with
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: some of my students were shocked in skin shops to see pictures of nude avatars on ads
Ondine Viertz: And I think that goes back to the overthinking/overtalking that can happen --how much do you prepare students for what they might run into? Can we prepare them for this uninhibited land of mass sexual content that ... doesn't appear? :)
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: let's return, for a second to "playing" as a way to prepare them,
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: rather than over-talking it
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: I like the way you two distinguish "ludus" and "padeia" in your article. Could you elaborate a bit on that distinction for our audience today?
Olivia Hotshot: (ad why don't we prep them for the Internet this way?)
Ignatius Onomatopoeia agrees--they know Facebook and little more
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: get well soon, Kali!
Jennifer Darkbyrd: I'm really torn on this issue. I think that as educators, we need to warn people about the content and how to avoid it if they want. Much like the objectionable content clause that is on many a syllabus. However, I also think that there is a bizarre double standard for new media and sexuality. Sexuality can exist in PG films and young adult books, but social response seems against it in games and simulations
Olivia Hotshot: bye Kali
Jennifer Darkbyrd: bye!
Ondine Viertz: one of the things that intrigues me about the way students often approach gaming is from a win/lose perspective--ludus--rather than seeing gaming as potentially more open--padeia
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: we do have a double-standard for games and VWs...perhaps it's merely the interactivity
Sheila Yoshikawa: also the demonising of computers, I think
Jennifer Darkbyrd: But then we hit the slippery soap. What isn't interactive?
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: would you say that virtual worlds privilege Padeia?
Ondine Viertz: I prefer to introduce students to a broader idea of what gaming "could" be in that it can move beyond win/lose
Sheila Yoshikawa: and denigrating anything to do with fantasy
Ondine Viertz: @Iggy, certainly SL and some MMGORPs do
Jennifer Darkbyrd: Or contemporary games as well
Ondine Viertz: @Jen, I love the idea of a slippery soap! :)
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: crafting narratives on top of backstory in an RPG (online or on paper) for instance
Jennifer Darkbyrd: that's right: SOAP!
Mimi Muircastle: Freudian slip :)
Ondine Viertz: lol
Ignatius Onomatopoeia slips on the soap
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: here's a tough one...
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Tell us more about the claim that SL is not a "neutral" tool but one that is "imbricated in systems of power that affect access, interaction, and corporate interest."
Sheila Yoshikawa: (page ref, Iggy?)
Ondine Viertz: But for example, even one of my favorite time-waster games, Animal Crossing, is in many ways less ludic, much more toward free, open play
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: page...
Jennifer Darkbyrd: 320
Sheila Yoshikawa: ty
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: ty--just found it (using a PAPER copy)
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Animal Crossing rocks....
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: but the Metaplace version was gory :)
Jennifer Darkbyrd: So now we get into the problems of collections... The original article was about 10 pages longer, and the editors had a number of submissions that went too long, so we cut.
Ondine Viertz: Well, returning to avatar choice, that is a choice that is heavily imbricated in power, in the way that others respond to you and your image in SL
Jennifer Darkbyrd: What we were trying to talk about here is that the band wagon of second life from about 2-4 years ago
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: I was fond of Harry the Handsome Executive (not an adult title) that lampoons cubicle life
Jennifer Darkbyrd: was a little too optimistic.
Ondine Viertz: I'm thinking particularly of how your student, Iggy, responded about how silenced/invisible she felt when she chose an obese av
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: @Ondine, she's a powerful and positive person IRL...it took a strong person to try that.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: it taught the whole class a lesson
Jennifer Darkbyrd: It rarely took into account that my computer is STRUGGLING to run this program right now, and I have a good computer. By supporting second life and interacting in it, we are interacting in two capitalistic systems that are based on the god terms of progress and digital literacy
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: overweight students are invisible on campus...we have a very white, suburban, and trim student body
Ondine Viertz: @Iggy, I agree, and I think that's a concrete example of what we meant when we talk about systems of power--the system controls (in some ways) what you can and can't do, the system allows for certain ways that you can interact (permissions), etc.
Jennifer Darkbyrd: Once I turn people onto SL, they have hardware, software, access ($50 per month of high speed internet) and pleasure spending that needs to be budgeted for
Ondine Viertz: Exactly--my school will not install and run SL on our lab computers, so you get into the local permissions needed to even run the program here
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Jennifer--LL runs a business. We become complicit in their mission by being here...one reason I applaud VWER's efforts to branch out.
Jennifer Darkbyrd: the question becomes, for what? What are the benefits, and what are our ethics?
Jennifer Darkbyrd: Good question
Ondine Viertz: Even look at how you changed the name of your roundtable to VWER :)
Olivia Hotshot: chuckles
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: you can enjoy life free here, even subversively
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: I've an ALT doing an squatting experiment
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: I found a whole community of fellow freeloaders
Birdie Newcomb: I might have met you
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: it seems, though, that getting students
Sheila Yoshikawa: @Iggy we are complicit in the missions of many businesses every day, including ones to do with education, though
Sheila Yoshikawa: I mean in RL
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: to be critical users of SL or any technology is key
Ondine Viertz: @Sheila, agreed--how many of us here use Microsoft products in class?
Birdie Newcomb: as little as possible
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: do we apply our critical methodology to, say, Blackboard? Campus designs that favor cars over pedestrians and cyclists?
Jennifer Darkbyrd: So I am also associated faculty for Interactive Media and Game Development at WPI, and on our advisor board are people from LL. Here's the debate that we always get into: SL simulates a free economy, training people to be better consumers in a free economy if they actually choose to participate in it in any meaningful way. Stephanie just mentioned Animal Crossing, which is also the training ground for capitalism, but SL is more invisible in its conditional rhetoric, I would argue, because it LOOKS so normal
Margaret Michalski: powerpoint only
Olivia Hotshot: Iggy, we do extensively at Chico - with Bb
Sheila Yoshikawa: yes I think WebCt has a more questionable and transmissive educational approach
Ondine Viertz: I think to be effective rhetoricians, we have to ... at least, as a rhet/comp scholar, that's the sort of thing I aim for in my teaching--questioning technology (even as I support and use it)
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: all of these tools involve some level of compromise...but being a wise consumer is not something many of my students understand.
Sheila Yoshikawa: i mean you find it difficult to avoid in webct because of the software limitations, it embodies power differences tutor-learner
Ondine Viertz: So my choice of using Moodle rather than Blackboard is a choice I explicitly discuss with my students
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: yes--teacher-centered software reinforces stale pedagogy
Ondine Viertz: @jen, but Animal Crossing is FUN capitalism! :)
Jennifer Darkbyrd: cause it's a game!
Olivia Hotshot: how do the students know whether they want Moodle over Bb? how would they know?
Margaret Michalski: I did not know you have the option to choose Moodle if your institution is blackboard or other.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: we have to expose them to options
Ondine Viertz: @Olivia, I think they wouldn't ... I think there are many choices that we as educators make on their behalf, because a truly decentered classroom where students help make the decisions is messy, difficult, and in many ways doesn't fit in the corporate university
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: and like the SL race-change experiment, it can open eyes
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Yeah--you cannot switch from Bb to Moodle in mid-term
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: b/c the students prefer it
Olivia Hotshot: Yes, we have an enterprise wide LMS - not singular choices
Ondine Viertz: But you can always push for a change with your IT people ... but it's difficult (again, no SL for me on lab comps because that's what IT says here)
Olivia Hotshot: so one person cannot be on Moodle. another Bb, another on D2L etc
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: well, Jennifer and Ondine set up one of my final questions....
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: The article closes with a warning by two of the best known scholars in the field of computers and writing, Gail Hawisher & Cynthia Selfe, that "all too frequently...writing instructors incorporate computers into their classes without the necessary scrutiny and careful planning that the use of any technology requires."
Margaret Michalski: @iggy but did the students still act like themselves or did they ajust their behavior.
Sheila Yoshikawa: and actually the students say they prefer uniformity, they don't want to deal with lots of different systems
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: @Margaret, they tried to act like a male or female, often with a classmate coaching them
Olivia Hotshot: Shelia - here too. They want consistency
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: except the lunkhead that Viv ran afoul of when we did the Usher simulation :)
Ondine Viertz: @Sheila, I've had a similar experience--students want to know where to go, and each time a diff teacher uses something else, they get more confused, it seems
Olivia Hotshot: Max, you did the gender change experiment, how did it go for you>
Sheila Yoshikawa: @olivia yes i think i really meant consistency ;-))
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: regarding the Hawisher/ Selfe quotation--are you finding that faculty are not critical users of technology?
Maximum Goldshark: Very eye opening.
Viv Trafalgar: @iggy - I'm sure the lunkhead learned something
Maximum Goldshark: New levels of differences of "treatment" of genders than I was sensitive to.
Ondine Viertz: You know, I think in many ways it--like many other things--is very local and situational
Ondine Viertz: Here, we have a hard enough time getting people to even consider using, say, PowerPoint in their classes. The ESSAY reigns supreme
Ondine Viertz: It's hard to be critical when you're resistant, I guess I'd say
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: for now
Jennifer Darkbyrd: I think...I start nervously...that many people start to use computerized technology for many reasons, and the danger is that simulations and games teach multiple things in multiple ways.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: upward pressure from "consumers" and downward pressure from employers will end the reign of the stapled essay
Ondine Viertz: I like how we're both hedging with "I thinks" here :)
Mimi Muircastle: @iggy :)
Ignatius Onomatopoeia forgot the "I think" bit :)
Jennifer Darkbyrd: What if I wanted to teach revolutionary thought? SL looks like a place that would teach it at an exigent level, but at the quotidian and conditional, it's imbricated in an ideology that is its opposite
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: why "danger" Jennifer?
Jennifer Darkbyrd: so students learn both, and pick up on the tension, even if they cannot articulate that tension
Ondine Viertz: But there is definitely the danger of jumping on one side of a binary or other--Yes, I love technology and I'm gonna use it no matter what it will do for my class, or no way, I won't use it, I hate trying to revamp my classes.
Ondine Viertz: I'd like to push for breaking that binary more
Jennifer Darkbyrd: When we wrote this article, it was in response to the field of computers and composition getting their love on for computer games
Jennifer Darkbyrd: We love games too,
Jennifer Darkbyrd: but there are huge red flags
Ondine Viertz: hehe, the lovefest of 2007
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: did you two detect any "Hype" for SL then?
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: as there was in the non-academic world?
Ondine Viertz: @Iggy, very much so. Hype is coming in waves.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: even now? Seems we are post-hype in SL
Jennifer Darkbyrd: I think that if you can start a curriculum with critical engagement with representation, power structures, and other critical questions, then students might be able to move into using online environments in a different way
Ondine Viertz: There is always a new thing, a new tech, that the field embraces as the next educational savior.
Marc Rexen: Yes, it was obvious in 07, the peak of the curve, before the trough of disillusionment.
Jennifer Darkbyrd: I think that we are post hype SL and entering the pro hype games
Ondine Viertz: @Jen, I agree
Jennifer Darkbyrd: similar concerns in both
Ondine Viertz: I mean, who remembers MOOs? MUDs? Hypertext?
Viv Trafalgar raises hand
Ondine Viertz: All hyped at first
Sheila Yoshikawa: me
Olivia Hotshot: me
Marc Rexen: me
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: At the CCCC meeting, Stephanie may remember all the WoW sessions
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: that seems "hot" now
Marc Rexen: bbs, news groups.
Ondine Viertz: Yes
Jennifer Darkbyrd: So there are a number of lessons that SL can give, and MOOs and MUDs that will hopefully transfer when we ask students to design ARGs, for example
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: I built a Beatnik Coffee House in our MOO...and taught w/ Eastgate Hypertexts...gone gone gone
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: ARG=Augmented Reality Game?
Ondine Viertz: And I think again that this points to the necessity of education looking at not the technology itself, but what is underneath, what critical literacies the students might gain
Jennifer Darkbyrd: yes. I'm sorry. Teaching it right now, so immersed in the lingo
Marc Rexen: What each has, and what survives through today, is the wish to communicate with others.
Olivia Hotshot: ARG = what i say when i lose
Jennifer Darkbyrd: me too :)
Sheila Yoshikawa: lol
Ondine Viertz: @Marc, I agree. Each has a similar community bent
Mimi Muircastle: agree @Marc
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: how will an ARG engage what you want to do in your course?
Marc Rexen: Each interface has had it's great uses, and it's dark-sides, the binary groups of Usenet, juxtapositioned against super-computer support groups.
Marc Rexen: Any interface that really works, cover the panoply.
Marc Rexen: (sp I'm sure).
Ignatius Onomatopoeia will ask MS Word to fix that :)
Sheila Yoshikawa: I wanted to probe what you meant by "media literacy" - it is normally applied to decoding and creating messages in "the media" (news, TV etc.), and that's what the "media literacy" associations etc. focus on, but you seem to be applying it differently
Ondine Viertz: I think in a lot of ways, we're searching for an audience for the students that moves them beyond traditional composing for the instructor
Ondine Viertz: and a lot of these technologies can offer that
Sheila Yoshikawa: (sorry new question there)
Ondine Viertz: but that necessarily means that they are interacting not just with you (the teacher) any more
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: would you each teach with SL again?
Jennifer Darkbyrd: I am always interested in getting students to think about how little they control subjectivity, yet how to act in over-determined systems. Games are a great place to do that, and ARGs are terrific right now because it crosses that magic circle that so many game scholars talk about. I was in a meeting and received an ARG phone call--imaginary and participatory reality entering the daily lived life. So interesting
Viv Trafalgar: which ARG?
Ondine Viertz: @Sheila, I am moving beyond just media literacy as being able to read media, understand the rhetorical basis for media, but thinking more about the contextual issues that surround the technologies themselves
Jennifer Darkbyrd: I still use SL to teach certain things. It's terrific when I teach Japanese. It's also a great platform to talk about representation, identity control, and perception
Jennifer Darkbyrd: @ viv: Master Mime
Viv Trafalgar: ahh :)
Sheila Yoshikawa: @ondine, so more into the territory of digital literacies?
Sheila Yoshikawa: seeing these as socially constructed
Ondine Viertz: I'm particularly interested in how corporate products like facebook, myspace, and so on restrict the users' abilities to even shape the landscape of the technology itself
Ondine Viertz: @Sheila, yes--I think so
Jennifer Darkbyrd: Well, and the level of code as power
Viv Trafalgar: @Ondine people don't see facebook as corporate, they see it as 'their space' - and react that way when privacy issues come up.
Ondine Viertz: I mean, even here in SL there are limits placed on the space (there have to be to make it "work" and not be chaotic) but we often don't think about it in those terms
Olivia Hotshot: Aren't these all corporate products?
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: and as much as I love Google applications....it's not a free lunch
Ondine Viertz: @Viv, yes, I think maybe MySpace set that up with its choice of names :)
Mimi Muircastle: good pt. @Olivia
Olivia Hotshot: Thanks @Mimi
Sheila Yoshikawa: and then you get into the territory - well isn't everything either corporate or government ...
Viv Trafalgar: @Ondine and Jennifer - what happens when corporate playspaces like facebook and ARGs and VXs start to bleed into everything (like messaging you in meetings) - how do you get _out_ enough to analyze what's happening
Viv Trafalgar: or do you?
Sheila Yoshikawa: I mean in Life
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Griefers in SL often go after lulz to deliberately get after those who take SL too seriously
Sheila Yoshikawa: or capitalist
Ondine Viertz: @Viv, I think that brings up an interesting point about the division of work/life that educators today are struggling with in many ways
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: The Woodbury U folks dress as Soviet troops and go griefing areas seen as money-grubbing.
Mimi Muircastle: lol @Iggy
Jennifer Darkbyrd: I like to think of it as another perspective. I like going to other countries because I can see how sexist or racist or capitalist they are, which forces me to reflect on my own culture and make visible the invisible via comparison
Jennifer Darkbyrd: SL does this for me, and I think, my student
Jennifer Darkbyrd: s
Viv Trafalgar: @Ondine I'd like to hear more about it - especially as it relates to media awareness and savvy
Ondine Viertz: How much can I push against that and say that my facebook profile is mine and should not reflect on me as a teacher? Yet, the recent instructor who was placed on a month's leave after posting on facebook shows that it's not that easy
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: can these analytical skills cross platforms? So if you teach critical media literacy using FB, can students then apply the techniques in SL?
Birdie Newcomb: what did she post that was objectionable?
Marc Rexen: Yes, this is a huge issue, the aspect of companies/institutions/organizations wanting to the control the "one view of you" that is out there.
Ondine Viertz: I mean, Google things like teacher and facebook and you'll get all sorts of cautionary tales.
Mimi Muircastle: interesting idea @iggy
Olivia Hotshot: A question to the guests - I see you both have freshly baked avatars. What avatars do you use to teach? Dis you create these specifically to do talks?
Ondine Viertz: @Birdie, she posted something like "does anyone know a good hit man" in regards to difficult students
Mimi Muircastle: I was curious about the same thing, @Olivia
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: ouch, Ondine. That might get you fired at U Richmond
Ondine Viertz: @Olivia :)
Margaret Michalski: @ Oliva good question
Jennifer Darkbyrd: @ Viv: There's also the case of free speech and online venues. People are being sued by corporations for tweeting, blogging, or texting a negative comment in digital formats. And they're winning because digital speech is not protected under free speech. Which does not bode well for the movement toward digital democracy
Olivia Hotshot: sorry for bad typing
Ondine Viertz: I thought it would be interesting given that we are talking about how avatars affect how others view you ...
Olivia Hotshot: How so?
Ondine Viertz: I figured that people would notice that my av is new and relatively generic
Birdie Newcomb: @ Jen How do you mean not protected?
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: I had a student ask me to pull his wiki down...a corporate recruiter told him that the SL work would not help him on the job market :(
Olivia Hotshot: <Given that most people never fully rezz here - that really is not an issue Ondine =)
Mimi Muircastle: but what was interesting to me is that both of you appear to be very experienced avatars!
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: he had posted under his real name
Jennifer Darkbyrd: Digital speech is considered printed libel
Jennifer Darkbyrd: My avatar = new so that it would look more like me
Marc Rexen: Nice thing about the new Avatars with 2.0, they fit in better -- lot's less stratification in the Welcome Areas because of it.
Mimi Muircastle: so I was surprised at your new avatar bdays
Ondine Viertz: @Iggy, I think the reaction to the instructor viz what she said about a hit man was especially sensitive given recent school shootings by instructors
Sheila Yoshikawa: there was a landmark case over in the UK recently, where someone who had given a critical opinion of some scientists was deemed to be just giving his opinion and not required to back everything with facts when it is part of scholarly type exchange of ideas
Margaret Michalski: @iggy, virtual worlds hurts you in the job market?
Viv Trafalgar: @Jennifer -the movement toward digital democracy seems to be needing broad support from people who can spread the word - but is anyone at the talking head level interested in doing it?
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: @Margaret--his writing and pictures were considered counterproductive in the world of finance. He wore a Santa suit all term :)
Ondine Viertz: @margaret, 'I'm jumping in obvs, but I think a lot of people have a prejudiced view about gaming--that it's a waste of time, not serious, can't learn anything from it
Jennifer Darkbyrd: @ Sheila, there are a number of cases wherein corporations are winning, which does not bode well because of precidential law. University of London is doing good research into digital democracy, but nothing really exhaustive here.
Marc Rexen: It's not helped by corporate decisions ala Facebook that folks should have just one account -- a real issue if posting and updating Facebook is part of your "Job Duties."
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: here's my last Q for the day...
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: for our two authors, what would be your top three bits of advice for teachers planning to use SL in a classroom--for either a hybrid or online course?
Olivia Hotshot: Iggy, which brings up a good point about one's "digital self" or "digital presence" and how people interpret it.
Ondine Viertz: @marc, and that your account must be of a "real" person--I find that intriguing that FB has that specific limitation
Jennifer Darkbyrd: And how many selves we have
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: we'll go on to half past, of course. I can even stay a few more moments after
Olivia Hotshot: Facebook allows for avatars now.
Jennifer Darkbyrd: Three, huh?
Ondine Viertz: My answer is going to be in part "depends on what you want to use it for." :)
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: LOL--I know we could each give 20 :)
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: okies, Ondine--for your own classes.
Ondine Viertz: And my first reaction is: Don't use it just to be able to say you are using it.
Ondine Viertz: For my own classes, my advice would start with just letting the students have enough time to play in the space
Ondine Viertz: space, sorry
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: yeah--I just critiqued the Bedford Guide for Writing Tutors for recommending SL in a "wow that's cool" way
Ondine Viertz: I think oftentimes we don't give students enough time to really immerse themselves in a way that will be productive for them because there are so many competing things to cover in a traditional classroom
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: agreed
Jennifer Darkbyrd: Only in classes like mine: 1. spend a lot of time running around. Many instructors here assign SL and comment on it without time in SL. 2. Deal with the legal issues in the syllabus--questionable content and so forth. and 3. it needs to support a larger learning objective, not be used for its own sake. So really take the time to articulate it to the learning outcomes of the class and program so that students are not as resistant to it.
Ondine Viertz: @Iggy, right, that's the sort of uncritical move that I think is problematic
Ondine Viertz: There will always be another "hey that's cool" thing.
Ondine Viertz: Think about what your policies and such will be before jumping in, but again, I feel that's probably quite obvious for us here
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: True--but training time for tutor-avatars would be excessive, I felt
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: when one in 50 of our students knows what SL is
Olivia Hotshot: Indiscriminate tech use is never a winning situation - in SL or otherwise - reminds me of a prof who used Skype with his class - and they were all in the same room.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: LOL Olivia!
Olivia Hotshot: true story
Ondine Viertz: @Olivia, I actually used to MOO with students in all in the classroom for peer response because of the transcripts
Mimi Muircastle: bet he got good reception @Olivia
Ignatius Onomatopoeia believes you....or a colleague here who introduced SL poorly this week
Margaret Michalski: @ Iggy, my institution is considering standardized students (Alumni) to help new people.
Ondine Viertz: They did find it strange, but they also liked having those transcripts!
Olivia Hotshot: His face was HUGE on the screen and scared them
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: only talked about virtual sex, RL divorces, etc....all the tabloid crap.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: that is what students will recall.
Mimi Muircastle: lol
Jennifer Darkbyrd: Fun reading is the SL Herald
Ondine Viertz: it's like the police blotter in my small town here :)
Ignatius Onomatopoeia claims no association with the Herald :)
Ignatius Onomatopoeia cannot vouch for his ALTs, however :)
Ondine Viertz: But even having students critique official publications associated with particular games can be fruitful
Olivia Hotshot: chuckling
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: folks, we are at 230
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: I mean 330
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: LOL--thanks to both of our authors for joining us today
Ignatius Onomatopoeia applauds
Ondine Viertz: Thanks for having us here!
Mimi Muircastle: good session - thank you both!
Sheila Yoshikawa: yes, thank you
Margaret Michalski: Thank you Iggy and special guests
Jennifer Darkbyrd: This was a lot of fun!
Olivia Hotshot: Thank you very much to the guests!
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: looking forward to reading more of your work
Mimi Muircastle: enjoyed reading your paper
Viv Trafalgar: thank you both!
Ondine Viertz: It was a great experience and it's so wonderful you have these set up.
Matt Medina: excellent! thank you!
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: and thanks to all of you for joining us.