Transcript of Virtual Worlds Education Roundtable: April 13, 2010
Topic: How to Use Second Life as an Environment to Stimulate Reflection
Thanks to Lolly Dovgal & Sheila Webber for the photos. Join our VWER group at Flickr and add your own pictures!
Links of Note:
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Hi everyone, and welcome to our weekly Virtual Worlds Education Roundtable meeting.
Sheila Yoshikawa: it's taking ages for things to rez for me, i'll wait a little to sit down
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: If you are sitting in the amphitheater seats, we ask you to come down and join us around the roundtable. There is always an empty seat closest to the ramp.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: even got room for dinosaurs
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Our meetings are made possible by the Office of Information Technology at Montclair State University. We meet here each week at 2:30 pm SLT for an hour.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: The Virtual Worlds Education Roundtable is a forum to educate and inform the community about issues that are important and relevant to education.
Fleche Xeno: I'll try not to eat the speakers before the presentations' over.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: LOL
Willow Shenlin: how cool
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Our topic today is "How to use SL as an environment to stimulate reflection" and it will be in TEXT CHAT only
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: The views and opinions of any of our special guests or visitors do not necessarily represent those who volunteer or organize these meetings,
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: or of the College of Humanities and Social Sciences, Office of Information Technology , or Montclair State University.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: This is a public meeting, so we do keep a transcript of what is said in local chat. For a copy of transcripts, please visit http://www.vwer.org
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Some of our transcripts are now available transcribed into a sound file. You can find them in iTunes Podcasts by searching for VWER.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: The Virtual Worlds Education Roundtable meeting happens each week and we are looking to develop a community of educators from around the world with a variety of thoughts, needs, and ideas.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Please join the Virtual Worlds Education Roundtable group here in SL. You can also find us on Facebook, LinkedIn, Flicker, and KoinUp, as well as on Twitter as VWER.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Finally, if you have Mystitool on, or other similar tool, please put it to sleep or detach it for now. :-) It tends to lag things.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: I'm Iggy, the scribe for this group, and I'm hosting today for AJ Brooks. If you've not seen the transcripts I run, you should check them out - they are a great information asset.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: I'm fascinated by the topic, given how influential one assignment I did has been. My students had to switch race or gender for a week
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Then write reflectively about how they were treated. If you want to hear more about one student's experience as a human in Furry country in SL
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Come to Jamey Wonder's talk this Friday, 1130-1230 SLT, at this SLURL:
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: http://slurl.com/secondlife/Richmond/69/181/122
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Jamey and I will be on hand in SL while we both talk to visitors at a real-life poster session for our annual Arts & Sciences Student Research Symposium.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Why don't we get started they way we usually do, by introducing ourselves. No need to wait, go ahead and type who you are, where you are, and your ties to education into local chat.
Kali Pizzaro: Evelyn McElhinney Nurse Lecturer, RN, Glasgow Caledonian University
Jarrad Voom: Jarrad Voom from the Puget sound in the Great Northwest USA
Maximum Goldshark: Student, Chico, Jim Aird
LoCE99Ch8 Morpork: Rosanna Brown, Lassen Community College Library, Susanville (northeastern), California, rbrown@lassencollege.edu, @RbrownLassen. In world, call me Lo.
Grinn Pidgeon: Dr. Barbara Pittman, Cuyahoga Community College, Cleveland, Ohio. Faculty Development/Instructional technology/English teacher
hobbs Constantine: is Heather Dodds, Course Mentor for Natural Sciences, Western Governors University, here for my own research interests, working on my Phd
Chimera Cosmos: is it all in text today?
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: all text, yes
Zotarah Shepherd: I am a MA in Education (technology & psychology) student at Sonoma State University in northern California working on a curriculum project: Teaching and Learning Life Foundation Skills in Second Life. Visit my Immersive Interactive Educational builds on Ralanora. I also have a build for Multiple Intelligences on Koru.
Olivia Hotshot: Ann Steckel, Cal State Chico, techie, educator, janitor and builder
Esparanza Freese: Hope Botterbusch, Kansas State University, Teaching and learning in Virtual Worlds
Aerdna Beaumont: Funda and FESPSP Brazil
Sheila Yoshikawa: I teach in the iSchool at Sheffield University, UK, I've taught first year students and Masters students in SL (, for one module in each case, 3 years running)
Margaret Michalski: Margaret Czart, Research Information Specialist University of Illinois at Chicago.
Geoff Lumley: is Geoff Barker-Read from the University of Leeds, UK. I'm Head of the Academic Quality and Standards Team
Viv Trafalgar: Viv Trafalgar, Interactive Games and Immersive Narrative Designer, Rezzable; Iggy's dogsbody; I teach sometimes.
Firery Broome: University of Delaware
Chimera Cosmos: Liz Dorland, Washington U in St. Louis, formerly Mesa Community College in AZ - interest in orienting newcomers, especially in edu, and promoting networking
Mimi Muircastle: Mimi/Charlotte retired middle sch. prin/Friends of HumBay NWR/RFL next week!
Willow Shenlin: just defended my dissertation. finishing edits and looking for a job :-)
Mimi Muircastle: yay Willow !
Olivia Hotshot: \o/ Willow!!! =)
Chimera Cosmos: Yay Willow!
Sheila Yoshikawa: yay Willow
Tonito Alderson: Tony Ratcliffe, Edmonton, Alberta, Canada. Prospective PhD student in e-learning and tech
Esme Qunhua: Jane Wilde Vermont USA, faculty of Marlboro College Grad School, PhD student SUNY Albany. Teach in Second Life' | `
Kali Pizzaro: good luck
Ninlil Xeltentat: Arizona State University, technology and nonprofits. about to defend my applied project, should be writing, but i'm here instead.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: woot Willow way to go
Viv Trafalgar: go willow!!
hobbs Constantine: way to go Willow
Willow Shenlin: yeah! thanks
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: other intros?
Viv Trafalgar: Good luck Ninlil
Kali Pizzaro: HEy Hattie
Olivia Hotshot: 29 currently in the sim
Jarrad Voom whispers: Go willow
Hattie Haystack: Hi Kali
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: going once...
hobbs Constantine: yay Ninlil!
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: twice...
Chimera Cosmos: Is anyone new today?
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: sold to the hillbilly squatting on Linden abandoned land!
Chimera Cosmos: first time here?
Kali Pizzaro: ha
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: so, "reflection" in SL
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: AJ was going to do this topic, but could not be here
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: my assignment came back to me right away
Ninlil Xeltentat: hi Bau!
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: how I asked students to switch race or gender
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: the results were...
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: amazing. Guys who'd never thought
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: about how they treated women were stunned
Chimera Cosmos: did they know real identities?
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: by how they got treated....then they blogged about it
Olivia Hotshot: 30 in the sim atm
Chimera Cosmos: from the class?
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: no..they didn't reveal their RL gender or race in SL
Chimera Cosmos: cool
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: anyway, you can read about the assignment here later on when I post this
Tonito Alderson: I'm new. Sorry, catching up on the chat. Too much lagg
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: http://iggyssyllabus.pbworks.com/Gender+or+Race+Switch
Viv Trafalgar: it's a great assignment
Olivia Hotshot: Iggy i wrote a similar lesson for a group here - it is used in teacher training - Max is in the middle of participating in that activity
Ninlil Xeltentat: that is excellent!
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Tonito, if you have trouble
Kali Pizzaro: fanfab
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: open the local chat window
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: so you can scroll back
LoCE99Ch8 Morpork: Did your students use different avatar names?
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: @Lo, no
Margaret Michalski: I actually tested that with an alt. It is fun to test.
Mimi Muircastle: @Olivia it would be fun to compare your outcomes with Iggy's
Bau Ur: Indeed I think this kind of experience is one of the things SL is best for.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: I told them to devise gender neutral names when creating their avatars
LoCE99Ch8 Morpork: Or go to places where they weren't known?
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: and they did "venture out"
Olivia Hotshot: Mimi - indeed - but my guess is it will be similar.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Jamey's project was the strongest
LoCE99Ch8 Morpork: at least not known by name?
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: she was dissed by furries in Luskwood--the same ones she'd met as a white female when she went back. As black, no one would talk to her
Chimera Cosmos: wow
Chimera Cosmos: weird
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: anyway, the projects were great.
Chimera Cosmos: how many?
Chimera Cosmos: furries
Mimi Muircastle: I read her write up earlier - great observations - very insightful
Willow Shenlin: wow. powerful
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: 18
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: another changed body type--to white heavy-set female
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: she's an athletic black woman IRL
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: and no one would talk to her
Chimera Cosmos: interesting
Margaret Michalski: yes, I got similar reaction.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: it sponsored good reflection by them
Kali Pizzaro: sounds great
Margaret Michalski: or they walk away
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: so what else have others tried to spark this in classes or projects?
Olivia Hotshot: we had a faculty member banned from a sim for being in a wheel chair - she is able bodied in rl and wanted to experience what it was like to be a disabled person.
Bau Ur: Was it the default entry black avatar or a custom black avatar? Was she comparing two entry level avatars so that in both cases it was evident she was a noobie?
Chimera Cosmos: banned because...?
Viv Trafalgar: banned from a sim?
Willow Shenlin: banned from a sim? why?
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: @Olivia, that might be reportable to LL
Fleche Xeno: Anyone trying to be an elderly individual.
Mimi Muircastle: wow, @Olivia sad story
Olivia Hotshot: she was obstructing a path - supposedly
Sheila Yoshikawa: wow
Kathryn Pleides: what?
Zotarah Shepherd: That reminds me of an assignment we did in a Social Psychology course. Very interesting.
Olivia Hotshot: and was asked if she "really did need the wheel chair"
Olivia Hotshot: as "no one needs one in SL"
Chimera Cosmos: sheesh! a path?
Margaret Michalski: @ Fleche, good idea never thought of that oe.
Willow Shenlin: obstructing in SL? like the others could not fly?
Bau Ur: It is difficult to even obtain a well designed elderly skin.
Chimera Cosmos: seriously autocratic - not your normal SL reaction!
Kathryn Pleides: I've seen some good elderly men's skins
Kathryn Pleides: but not many
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: these are great areas for students to explore in studying a virtual world
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: leads to SL as subject for analytical work
Kali Pizzaro: my students kept diaries of their experience in Sl in which they did 2 group problem based learning scenarios.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: URLs if you have them!
Chimera Cosmos: Olivia, did she know the avatar(s) banning her in RL too?
Chimera Cosmos: there might have been history?
Olivia Hotshot: no
Chimera Cosmos: wow
Mimi Muircastle: @Kali were the diaries only written or were they photos, vids etc?
Olivia Hotshot: she was fairly new to sl - and teaches students to become special ed faculty
Kali Pizzaro: one student reported how he felt so lonely when he was in on his own
Kali Pizzaro: no the diaries were written
Mimi Muircastle: ty
Kathryn Pleides: Yes; it's hard to start on your own
Kali Pizzaro: but they did other questionnaire
Olivia Hotshot: Max, what did you think about the journaling part of the activity you did for access & equity
Maximum Goldshark: Most notable for me changing genders for my current class is the feelings I get when trying to act female. Very interesting to talk to other women about those observations.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Here's my student who was ignored as a heavy-set woman: http://fall103.pbworks.com/Jenna%27s+Race+Project-+A+Spin+on+Fierce
Maximum Goldshark: and of course, never been asked for sex so much...
Olivia Hotshot: eeeesh.
Maximum Goldshark: But my female AV is kinda pretty.
Maximum Goldshark: I expected it.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Hi Lolly--come on down and grab a seat--some to Max's Left
Kali Pizzaro: @Kathryn he had not started on his own he went back in to collect an xray and felt he missed his classmates
Kali Pizzaro: he did not expect that
Sheila Yoshikawa: ahhh
Firery Broome: Great old skins Wrigglesworth Elderly Avatars & More
Bau Ur: It is difficult to avoid confounding variables. One cannot easily change *just* race or gender or age when changing avatars.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: @Max--my male students felt the same way--though they needed fashion advice to "get it right"
Kathryn Pleides: It's hard to find really good darker skins too
Maximum Goldshark: I' solicited lots of advice on my female av...
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: @Kathryn, we found okay ones at Milky9
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: but the female shape was like Jessica Rabbit
Kathryn Pleides: Milky9? I have a friend interested in that, I will let her know
Firery Broome: at Tableau: http://slurl.com/secondlife/Tableau/65/73/134
Kathryn Pleides accepted your inventory offer.
Ninlil Xeltentat: B@R bare rose is really good for skins too.
Kali Pizzaro: max did anyone guess you were a man
Firery Broome: male and female and clothing as well
Kathryn Pleides: ty Iggy!
Willow Shenlin: Dennis Beck did a study on how avatar choice influenced teachers in SL: he focused on gender and races.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: thanks Firery!
Olivia Hotshot: Firery - i have seen those and was about to post the link. They are great examples - and they have all the "gear" to go with them
Maximum Goldshark: no, never even asked
Firery Broome: yes very fun!
Maximum Goldshark: But I get a lot of "new AV?"
Bau Ur: ON my monitor with rather poor contrast ratio it is hard for me to see the details of my own avatar when the skin is as dark as I would prefer it to be. I wonder how that sort of purely technical thing might affect people's choices.
Kali Pizzaro: did you try to change your language or did you not think about it
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: I'm surprised at how many students retain the new gender or race for the remainder of the term
Mimi Muircastle: @Willow - do you have a link to the Beck study?
Kali Pizzaro: or when you reflected back did you think you had changed
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: one Greek student changed back...because he encountered racism in a Greek-speaking sim
Willow Shenlin: I've got a short summary here: http://arvelsig.ning.com/page/inworlds-discussions?xg_source=activity
Maximum Goldshark: @Iggy once you get comfortable and are familiar, you stick with it.
Mimi Muircastle: thanks!
Kali Pizzaro: questions are for max
Kathryn Pleides: I wonder how it would affect students' perceptions of SL if they were started with Tiny or other non-human avatars and kept those?
Willow Shenlin: and he posted his slides in SL at CAVE 16,237,42
Olivia Hotshot: SOUL Special skins and shapes have some excellent ethnic skin choices - http://slurl.com/secondlife/Skin/194/144/39
Bau Ur: Tinies generally get less sexual attention.
Willow Shenlin: in the Experimental CAVE
Maximum Goldshark: Sorry, Kali.
Kali Pizzaro: no problem
Margaret Michalski: @ igggy funny you should say that. I was speaking Polish in one sim. The minute I said where I was from they had a problem.
Mimi Muircastle: got it Willow!
Bau Ur: Tinies might therefore get a very different point of view even when female.
Willow Shenlin: He's Caleb Negulesco in SL
Kali Pizzaro: did you change your language or did you think you did when you reflected back
Maximum Goldshark: Same language, I know I have changed,
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: A couple of students encountered anti-Furry bias, as though it's a "safe race" to bash in SL
Kali Pizzaro: thanks
Maximum Goldshark: Speach patterns? yes, absolutely.
Olivia Hotshot: http://www.totalengagement.org/authors.html - Excellent resource if you want to learn more about avatars and engagement - super section on appearance
Kathryn Pleides: It would be interesting to see, Bau.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: interesting that the SL 2 new avies are all human
Sheila Yoshikawa: yes i noticed that
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: I ask my writers to reflect on avatar choice as an early writing task
Maximum Goldshark: I tried to act like a believable female, which included what I was guessing was female words, topics etc.
Bau Ur: Ii note here that we have no way to do these exercise "double blind". Knowing that our appearance has changed may cause our behavior to change also, in anticipation of the response of others. Difficult to control all the variables.
Olivia Hotshot: maybe animals once the new Linden homes include caves and jungles etc.
Mimi Muircastle: thanks for the info Olivia
Olivia Hotshot: welcome Mimi
Bau Ur: Difficult to correct for such unintended differences.
Firery Broome: woodland for them
Zotarah Shepherd: Hellow Mimi
Willow Shenlin: about non-human avatar reactions: where did the xenophobia come from? did the students get an answer to that?
Kali Pizzaro: some of my students picked avatars who were the opposite race. this was not part of the project. they did it off their own back
Sheila Yoshikawa: yes Bau
Olivia Hotshot: @Firery - good point
Kali Pizzaro: so interested to see why the
Bau Ur: Ignatius, did your students have an identical script to use in each avatar, or did they "wing it" in each case?
Mimi Muircastle: Hi Zo - missed your IM's last night - sorry
Zotarah Shepherd: Ok Thanks
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: @Willow--no answer
Mimi Muircastle: great ques. @Beau
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: I think studying non-human avatars in virtual worlds would be intersting. I mean, do Orcs get dissed in some MMORPGs?
Kali Pizzaro: Iggy did any of them remain in a newbie avatar
Esme Qunhua: If I understand Iggy you were not conducting a test you were asking students to reflect on their own experiences.
Willow Shenlin: @ iggy: LOL
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: @Kali--no. They all wanted to look "experienced"
Ninlil Xeltentat: what is the opposite race? how do you determine which is opposite to which one?
Olivia Hotshot: I believe there is an invisible pecking order - tinies, furries, nekos, etc
Kali Pizzaro: ok did they say why
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: That is a strong from of bias in SL--newbie looks get you disssed
Mimi Muircastle: yes, Olivia, I have heard the same thing
Viv Trafalgar: only if the tinies are poultry @olivia
Kali Pizzaro: yeah
Fleche Xeno: its also a sim relative bias
Olivia Hotshot: Viv! hah!
Mimi Muircastle: @viv :)))
Firery Broome: Well I think the furries my be at the bottom
Zotarah Shepherd: I think newbie appearance gets more bias than others.
Fleche Xeno: its' like each race has its onw enclave
Olivia Hotshot: @Firery, lets hope not literally
Margaret Michalski: @ Kali, I thin staying as the default would put some biased into the results. People tend to act different to newbies as it is.
Firery Broome: due to the sex aspect
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: @Ninlil...there are few Asian or Arabic skins out there. A few African ones. My Asian students usually changed gender or posed in a dark skin
Kali Pizzaro: sure
Firery Broome: ha!
LoCE99Ch8 Morpork: All I got as a newbie was offers of help.
Marc Rexen: Ver obvious with the new flood of AV's with 2.0.
Olivia Hotshot: @Ninlil - i posted above a good resource for ethnic skins
Kathryn Pleides: LoC - me too
Kali Pizzaro: indeed Loce
Sheila Yoshikawa: and me
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Birdie--open seat between Lolly and Jimmie and Jimmie and Noir
Kathryn Pleides: I have observed gentle razzing of older avatars who still wear newbie skins/hair/clothes though
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: thanks Olivia for posting that
Marc Rexen: Eventually, the new outfits will get known, but newbies are being more openly accepted because they don't look new to older residents.
Olivia Hotshot: welcome Iggy
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: so far, to recap
Kathryn Pleides: But part of that may depend on where one is and who else hangs out there
Willow Shenlin: actually, thinking back, I had to change my avatar because my 'floating jellyfish" was 'freaking' out someone at the session. but i hardly understand the race bashing.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: we'll discussed one type of assignment
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: that leads to reflection
Olivia Hotshot: Has everyone seen the new avatar set? The newbies look way less noobish.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: do we have others?
Sheila Yoshikawa: I think hair colour is a factor - I think my blue hair puts people off - I think my only out of the blue proposition was after one of these meetings lol
Marc Rexen: Everyone got copies in Inventory.
Mimi Muircastle: yes, I love the new avies compared to the old!
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: I would love to know
Kathryn Pleides: Now if only they'd improve the default walk!
Willow Shenlin: any answers as to why LL choose only human avs for the 2.0?
Kali Pizzaro: my students reflected on a health history and discussion to inform their clinical decision
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: more about reflection in, say, the sciences
Kali Pizzaro: history
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: tell us, Kali
Marc Rexen: A bent toward the social...very obvious shift in direction.
Bau Ur: Helath histo?
Lolly Dovgal: Does it put people off that I have a aquatic dragon pet on my shoulder all the time?
Firery Broome: You have always gotten all the old one in your Library folder
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: did they blog? Assess each other's work
Firery Broome: so they are there, just not a new one
Kali Pizzaro: they had to take diagnostic history and discuss the findings, i sent them the text and they wrote a clinical note
Kali Pizzaro: deciding their actions
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: so SL became a new means to an type of assignment they might do IRL with a patient
Kali Pizzaro: they then had to choose investigations and again reflected on teir discussion and interpretation to inform the next decision
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: I recall your blog about the virtual patient...was it that assignment?
Bau Ur: ah, health history....I thought you were saying something about histology, sorry.
Kali Pizzaro: i gave them different results and they worked on through until diagnosis and management
Kali Pizzaro: no
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: ah
Kali Pizzaro: this is an action research project
Esme Qunhua: Kali did this all take place in SL?
Kali Pizzaro: so their results will inform my next class
Kali Pizzaro: yes
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: how did they react to this assignment, compared to those who had not used SL for reflective work?
Mimi Muircastle: I am curious about young adults who move from Teen Grid to adult SL and their reflections @Iggy
Sheila Yoshikawa: did they have a text chat record of what happened in SL? that they could refer back to? I think that aids reflection @Kali
Kali Pizzaro: yes i sent them it Sheila
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: good topic to study, Mimi
Ninlil Xeltentat: i wonder how much of what we want to protect them from on the adult grid happesn on the teen grid.
Kali Pizzaro: they had time to reflect and discuss
Zotarah Shepherd: I will ask a teen friend who just came to the main grid.
Mimi Muircastle: anyone here have info about that experience?
Sheila Yoshikawa: I think that the possibility of easily recording what you have heard/done is a big bonus in SL
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: I have a link, Mimi..hold on
Sheila Yoshikawa: taking pictures and going through chat
Mimi Muircastle: thanks ZO anyone else?
Zotarah Shepherd: The teens on the teen grid probably faced quite a bit there if they had a public account.
Sheila Yoshikawa: can help focus and reflect
Esme Qunhua: Mimi one female anecdote that less sexual harassment in SL than on the teen grid.
Birdie Newcomb: teens can make wicked griefing
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: my student Emily studied the teen grid..and a famous TG resident who moved over: http://fall103.pbworks.com/Emily%27s-Final-Project
Mimi Muircastle: wow - but knowing the hallways of middle schools, not surprised :)
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Daniel Voyager
Mimi Muircastle: thanks, Iggy
Olivia Hotshot: i know Daniel quite well - he has been here to the meetings
Willow Shenlin: ah yes. Daniel loved moving to the main grid. more things to see, NASA, etc....
Birdie Newcomb: intelligent and caring
Olivia Hotshot: he had a bunch of Linden support as he goes to lots of office hours and knows most Lindens. i think of him as Torley Junior
Zotarah Shepherd: I am in the TG Survivors group
Maximum Goldshark: Sounds like the teen grid would be a great place for junior high schoolersto understand bullying.
Mimi Muircastle: has Daniel continued to write about his experiences?
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Kali, I had another Q for you--
Kali Pizzaro: go
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: will you try that assignment again?
Mimi Muircastle: ty@Olivia
Kali Pizzaro: yes but will review the data
Kali Pizzaro: data
Olivia Hotshot: welcome Mimi
Kali Pizzaro: to inform some changes
Jimmie Veeper: http://danielvoyagerblog.wordpress.com/
Mimi Muircastle: ty Jimmie
Ninlil Xeltentat: does anyone here mind if I take photos so I can blog about this discussion?
Jimmie Veeper: He's good with tsl stats
Esme Qunhua: I would be interested in strategies for promoting reflection. I have students do a lot of touring, meeting with SL residents who are experts in their field and then writing on blogs or in moodle
Mimi Muircastle: fine with me :)
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: @Ninlil, photos are welcome!
Olivia Hotshot: Ninlil, please join our flickr group.
Ninlil Xeltentat: will do.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: you can share them at our Flickr and Koinup groups, too--
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: just search for VWER
Ninlil Xeltentat: ok
Mimi Muircastle: good ques. @Esme
Bau Ur: Has anyone explored the effect of being neither (discernibly) male nor female in SL? That can be as illuminating as the difference between being female and being male. It would certainly be a way to promote reflection upon the importance of perceived gender per se.
Olivia Hotshot: By the way - there is a new section in the TOS for photos and machinima everyone might want to read.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: @Esme, it depends...blogs are often public
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: but you can get classmates to respond
Ninlil Xeltentat: Olivia, that's why i asked. LOL.
Ninlil Xeltentat: there is a discussion at metanomics tomorrow about the new TOS stuff.
Mimi Muircastle: @Olivia important info
Sheila Yoshikawa: I think that in general terms the texts that are about encouraging reflective thought and writing generally are useful in SL as well
Birdie Newcomb: dragons, I can't tell the gender
Olivia Hotshot: @Ninlil - exactly.
Maximum Goldshark: @ Bau, good idea.
Firery Broome: New terms are topic for this week Metanomics
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: @Bau--it's a good Q. Don't know of any studies.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: let's return to the Q of how to encourage reflection
Bau Ur: " I find that I am least welcome or least interacted-with when I am most androgynous and neutrois. But I am always "myself" and do not try to seem female or male in interaction, regardless of avatar.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: what techniques might work best?
Kathryn Pleides: Bau - good thought
Sheila Yoshikawa: e.g. Jennifer Moon's work on reflective writing
Tonito Alderson: I have used Jenny Moon's work, a number of years ago.
Viv Trafalgar: @Iggy - writing and discussion - as we are doing here - and as your student is doing on Friday are good means of reflection
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: I didn't do the gender/race assignment early on, b/c they would not have been as open to sharing
Viv Trafalgar: what time is her poster session again?
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: by that point, they were fearless about their blogs
Sheila Yoshikawa: also it depends how used the students are to being asked to reflect - some find it very uncomfortable to start with (in RL or sl)
Mimi Muircastle: @Iggy safe subjects to begin with
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: @Viv--1130 SLT-1230
Kali Pizzaro: yes for me it is important for me and them to reflect on theirs and others clinical decisions. as well as their feelings and thoughts about sl in general
Viv Trafalgar: oh ty ty
Bau Ur: Ignatius, good point, a certain amount of trust-building among students can be important before you can hope for really good sharing of reflections.
Olivia Hotshot: 31 people on the sim
Sheila Yoshikawa: it is also about getting beyond just describing thoughts/feelings/observations
Chimera Cosmos: reminds me of that Saturday Night Live skit - with the androgynous character that made everyone very nervous
Kali Pizzaro: indeed
Zotarah Shepherd: I would like to explore places then meet for reflective discussion in SL. I think discussion helps bring out ideas and identifying feelings than a paper about the experience.
Mimi Muircastle: good pt. @Sheila
Birdie Newcomb: Pat
Chimera Cosmos: it makes people uncomfortable in RL, so makes sense that it might in SL
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: @Zo--my Greek student found a great coffee shop
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: just like IRL--people meet in SL to chat and share ideas
Kali Pizzaro: yeah reflection is often uncomfortable but valuable
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: then there are the support groups in SL
Kali Pizzaro: yeah they are interesting
Maximum Goldshark: You GOTTA ask yourself the hard questions...
Bau Ur: But elicting reflection itself....some people are so unaccustomed to it. They need a number of queries to get them going Other people are hampered by queries, and will do more and better thinking if you just turn them loose.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: not academic, but reflection to be sure
Kali Pizzaro: yep Max
Sheila Yoshikawa: usually helpful to have some structures or prompts to start with (for newbie reflectors), when asking for reflections
Esme Qunhua: I guess I should mention how I use group chat during tours so that our group can discuss what they see from afar and only with out group
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: @Bau..if you call it metacognition, it's suddenly valued in academe
Mimi Muircastle: lol @Iggy
Viv Trafalgar: @Esme - group chat is great, when it works
Bau Ur: :)
Kali Pizzaro: it is valued in nursing
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: I get students to do writer's memos to me--what they would have done differently, what they liked best, etc. in a project
Kali Pizzaro: as it can bridge the theory practice gap. so they say
Kali Pizzaro: ha
Kali Pizzaro: yeah there is a structure and model to follow
Kali Pizzaro: Iggy
Kali Pizzaro: with recommendations for future practice
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: @Kali--we don't use SL in training writing consultants, but that gap is the hardest bit. I have to get them to think of "praxis" constantly
Kali Pizzaro: yes praxis indeed
Willow Shenlin: praxis?
Kali Pizzaro: fancy word for theory and practice
Willow Shenlin: got it
Birdie Newcomb: that's a term from the New Left
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: I'm thinking of Freire's notion, Willow--what Kali said
Chimera Cosmos: This is interesting tho - not all cultures view reflection the way us Westerners do - http://fora.tv/2010/02/04/Ethan_Watters_The_Globalization_of_the_American_Psyche
Sheila Yoshikawa: My first year students had to write a reflection on the interview they carried out in SL, as part of their assessed work. They could compare the RL and SL experience of interviewing, which added depth to the reflection, in line with Variation Theory (which grew out of phenomenography)
Willow Shenlin: ok
Kali Pizzaro: sure there is a new fancier statement
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: yeah--Freire was actually old leftÑMarxist [correction later by Iggy: Freire considered himself a Christian Socialist]
Kali Pizzaro: yes Sheila
Kali Pizzaro: exactly
Kali Pizzaro: but not everyone is able to do it and then we try to assess it.
Bau Ur: The ways that discussion groups are moderated can be very important, in eliciting conversational responses to RL topics within SL. (I am thinking of various philosophy discussion groups that have developed distinct "followings" due to people's feelings about different stiyles of facilitation and moderatioin.) Perhaps it is less important for eliciting reflection on SL experiences themselves.
Kali Pizzaro: ha
Kali Pizzaro: ba that was to an earlier stateent
Kali Pizzaro: bau
Sheila Yoshikawa: @Kali have to teach it first ...
Kali Pizzaro: oh getting tired
Kali Pizzaro: yep
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: @Chimera, good point! Some studies in contrastive rhetoric show that some of our first years come to us from Japan with a sense of "no self" so reflection in difficult
Sheila Yoshikawa: @Bau - what is less important?
Bau Ur: pardon, I have terrible chat lag. I am probably babbling surreal non sequitars. Sorry.
Kali Pizzaro: yeah not in their culture
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: and I had a Jordanian student tell me "all we do in summarize. No analysis" at home
Kali Pizzaro: possibly
Kali Pizzaro: yep we have the same
Chimera Cosmos: analysis is different than reflection
Chimera Cosmos: I think
Viv Trafalgar: that's really interesting
Olivia Hotshot: Hey everyone - i am off to give a tour of our campus so i must scoot. have a great meeting and see you next week.
Chimera Cosmos: watch the fora episode Viv
Mimi Muircastle: agree @Chimera
Chimera Cosmos: very very interesting
Sheila Yoshikawa: bye olivia
Kali Pizzaro: yeah but to reflect is foreign to them ha
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: see you next week--our reading meeting with BOTH authors coming by!
Mimi Muircastle: good luck Olivia!
Olivia Hotshot: thanks bye all
Kali Pizzaro: oh i am getting sleepy i will butt oot ha
Kali Pizzaro: Bye Olivia
Zotarah Shepherd: Bye Olivia
Kathryn Pleides: bye
Sheila Yoshikawa: @chimera - but I think reflection involves analysis
Viv Trafalgar: bye olivia!
Chimera Cosmos: about trauma counseling in other cultures, and use of drugs for mental illness vis a vis cultural assumptions about what IS mental illness
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: They will be great to continue this topic, too...they studied their own classes' work in SL carefully.
Willow Shenlin: some Asian students in a school (another life) critisized the teacher was he was trying to get his students to participate instead of him strictly lecturing and basically answering his own questions
Lolly Dovgal: I must go to, to join Olivia. I'll post pics I took later tonight.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: thanks, Lolly!
Mimi Muircastle: have a great tour Lolly
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Do IRB issues ever come up when students write about themselves, in public?
Bau Ur: I have a friend who is a divinity school teacher who was dubious about the value of virtual discussion groups He found to his amazement that students discussed far more in virtual discussions than they ever had done in RL small group discussions SL has enough ...presence-of-person?....in the form of these avatars to engage people, and enough masking to allow shy or hesitant people to come forward with bolder ideas, self revelation, riskier speculations.
Mimi Muircastle: very interesting @Beau
Sheila Yoshikawa: yes but you can't generalise too much - I have UK students who find reflection hard and overseas students that are able to provide thoughtful reflection
Viv Trafalgar: very true Bau
Chimera Cosmos: I think thats a great strength of SL Bau - agreed
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: @Bau--moreso than in teleconferences, too..something about the virtual embodiment
Marc Rexen: Agreed.
Kali Pizzaro: Indeed Sheila
Kali Pizzaro: i have done a presence and immersion questionnaire for this group also
Chimera Cosmos: yes, the fora.tv talk is about generalizing how we think people think -- too much
Chimera Cosmos: assuming everyone thinks like we do
Margaret Michalski: @ Iggy, good question. My institution always stresses not to say too much about yourself online. Not just in virtual worlds but in general.
Kali Pizzaro: so interested to see the analysis of that data
Bau Ur: Hehe :) CHim.
Esme Qunhua: Also @ Bau not only are you safe but you are in a rich context, with visual cues. Classrooms are so sterile.
Sheila Yoshikawa: @Bau though I haven't actually noticed a huge difference in my students - some are a bit more/less lively - but I think you can get participation in f2f settings if you facilitate there imaginatively, too
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: @Chimera, it can be dangerous...Robert Kaplan's ideas from the 50s about cultural rhetoric are now seen as very dated and simplistic
Mimi Muircastle: so true @Esme
Chimera Cosmos: exactly Iggy
Kali Pizzaro: most of my students have answered that they acted the same in sl compared to rl
Sheila Yoshikawa: sometimes people are contrasting asking questions of a whole class in RL (which I think is pretty ineffective) with a participative discussion in SL
Kali Pizzaro: they were specifically asked
Sheila Yoshikawa: rather than like with like
Bau Ur: Esem (laughing) no classroom under my control has ever been sterile except for the autoclave...but, yes, I know what you mean,
Mimi Muircastle: lol @Beau nor mine in middle schools!
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: yet some rhetorical patterns emerge. Arabic rhetorical styles help one see similarities between, say, Mahfouz's structure in his novels and bombast from Saddam Hussein--a series of binaries leading to a conclusion
Chimera Cosmos: in Japan, apparently melancholy and sadness are seen as necessary and important
Chimera Cosmos: far more than in the US
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: students love to find this out...and they can do the same in SL with analysis of text chats from a welcome area
Esme Qunhua: I teach in college where the room is not Mine (and it is not exactly sterile, more icky)
Chimera Cosmos: so the lines for clinical depression and medicating are VERY different
Bau Ur: INteresting Ignatius. Iggy, do you find also that because nonEnglish speakers are often more skilled in writing than in speaking English, they are better received by native English speakers in virtual interactions?
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Yes, Bau, I do.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: one class mentor, a German woman, refused to use voice with my class.
Willow Shenlin: eheh.....pending typos in case of excited discussions
Viv Trafalgar: there's also more opportunity to proof what you're saying @Bau & @ Iggy
Bau Ur: melancholy is a a traditional Japanese aesthetic principle :)
Bau Ur: One can hardly be thought profound or substantive if not melancholy :)
Ninlil Xeltentat: some of that is because many have experienced discrimination because of their accents.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: and exaggeration a typical Arab stylistic move--ask anyone in my family :)
Ninlil Xeltentat: i'm an immigrant to the US myself, and although I picked the language up slowly, and have no more accent. But my parents still struggle.
Ninlil Xeltentat: haha, Ignatius, yes, we Arabs love to exaggerate. my friends always ask why I do it, and I can't explain why.
Margaret Michalski: @ Ninlil, very true, for some reason certain international people tend to think their English is not good enough.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: these topics are great to consider in SL--because we provide students with a truly international venue
Sheila Yoshikawa: though it depends - some of my non-English lang students are embarrassed about writing bad English (til they see my typing lol)
Bau Ur: Ninlil, perhaps not only discrimination, but simply the obstacle of being understood. My sister, for example, is not a bigoted person but like most Amwricans she had little exposure to any foreign accent before she went to college. She had a very very difficult time understanding the accents of non native English speaking teaching assistants, professors, and fellow students.
Willow Shenlin: yes, some things dont translate culturally. Like humor
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: as my Greek student found out, speaking Greek in a dark skin and getting taunted
Viv Trafalgar is glad Celts never exaggerate
Kali Pizzaro: indeed Viv
Sheila Yoshikawa: lol
Fleche Xeno: I'm a Chinese American with a French first name, and I speak with a british accent. :)
Kali Pizzaro: i told you a thousand timess......
Viv Trafalgar nods seriously and with moderation
Ninlil Xeltentat: we do provide an international venue, but as with other web content, it is still very western centric in standards and schools of thought.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: @Viv--other half of my family--now you know where it comes from in me :)
Fleche Xeno: assumption about identity on avie appearance is overrated. :)
Zotarah Shepherd: Some people speak with an accent in English on purpose, even though they have been in the US for many years. I like to hear accents.
Ninlil Xeltentat: I haven't been in an eastern educational system in so long, that I don't know what the structures are like. Perhaps someone with experience in both can clarify how they compare.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: @Fleche, except for newbie avatars....they really do get ignored or taunted
Sheila Yoshikawa: um, are we still talking about reflection?
Kali Pizzaro: 27 on the sim
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: @Shiela..sort of :)
Sheila Yoshikawa: lol
Fleche Xeno: I predict that, soon, there will be accent modification software for SL voice, so people can accent their own voice as well
Aerdna Beaumont: lol
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: we have 7 more minutes...what are some questions we have not answered?
Margaret Michalski: @ Zo, I don't think I completely agree with that. I know people that ave been here a very long time and still have accents.
Willow Shenlin: @fleche, there already are voice changer software
Willow Shenlin: and you can use it while in SL
Maximum Goldshark: Thanks all. C-Ya!
Willow Shenlin: works well
Kali Pizzaro: cheers Max
Willow Shenlin: very fun to complete your avatar appearance change ---gender or alien
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: to recap again--reflection about identity
Mimi Muircastle: true @Margaret my Swedish grandfather, born in USA had accent his whole life :)
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: in clinical settings
Kali Pizzaro: eyes hitting the floor. great discussion folks but i got to go to bed
Ninlil Xeltentat thinks about her mac voices
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: and in international communities...what else?
Chimera Cosmos: It's very difficult to learn to speak un-accented if you take up a new language after age 12 or so
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: goodnight Kali!
Mimi Muircastle: bye Kali :) ZZZZZZZZ
Sheila Yoshikawa: @Iggy - I am trying to reflect on whether the inherent ly disjointed nature of this kind of chatlog encourages reflection or the reverse
Mimi Muircastle: it encourages speed reading for me:)
Bau Ur: What I have heard so far is...SL provides excellent grounds in which to actually *experience*, though virtually, things worth reflecting upon. Sl provides venues for reflective discussions among avatars. What other aspect of reflective learning related to SL should we be thinking of?
Sheila Yoshikawa: I mean, that you have to puzzle it out makes you concentrate on meaning, more
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: @Sheila--I think it does IF you review the logs...my class found that in years and years of using chat software in writing classes
Birdie Newcomb: makes the effort to be present an interesting exercise
Mimi Muircastle: good pt. @Birdie
Fleche Xeno: reflection on our relationship to the way we modify our persona identity through accessories
Viv Trafalgar: the logs make it possible for people to be present, even if they have to step away for a moment @Sheila @iggy
Fleche Xeno: esp our identity to gadgets
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: we used to use Daedalus Interchange in the 90s--same type of chaos that falls into place as student reflect on the stream of talk later
Mimi Muircastle: my reflection happens when I re-read the chat logs
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: lot of research on that type of software in the journal Computers & Composition
Fleche Xeno: anyonex experiment on using googlewave to hold discussions?
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: I think our students are better at this than most of my colleagues--they can follow multiple threads
Birdie Newcomb: tried it and flopped
Bau Ur: hmm so that is another thing. The ability to log chat histories gives students an automatic record of discussions upon which to reflect... thoughts expressed and exchanged do not simply disappear nor rely upon memory.
Sheila Yoshikawa: @fleche, I don't think of SL as an accessory ort gadget though
Marc Rexen: It would be interesting to know of lasting behavior changes.
Zotarah Shepherd: Margaret Some want to keep their accents, even though they could loose their accents and some cannot get the "American" accent no matter how hard they try. I think accents are charming and give flavor and variety to English. Just my reflection.
Willow Shenlin: @fleche: good point. i mean, a dramatic haircut can change your attitude in SL.
Sheila Yoshikawa: @ fleche did experiment on Googlewave with mixed results
Willow Shenlin: in RL
Fleche Xeno: we see alot of people wear Bluetooth in real life 24/7
Ninlil Xeltentat: I was just in a conference in Atlanta, and after 15 years of being in teh US, I still can't pronounce the word Atlanta without sounding funny.
Fleche Xeno: and we also have accessories in SL that we would not wear
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: quick note!
Kathryn Pleides: I tried Google Wave when it came out but... well, meh
Fleche Xeno: like huds
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: next week--our "reading meeting" with the two authors of
Ninlil Xeltentat: so i kept saying "i'm going to Georgia" and people thought i was going to the country.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Press Enter to "Say": Using Second Life to Teach Critical Media Literacy
Viv Trafalgar: oooh
Willow Shenlin: but HUDs are necessary accessories to manipulate the avatars
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: I'll get the link out soon if we've not already shared it
Sheila Yoshikawa: found googlewave useful for interactions and assembling a range of stuff, but needed some other tool to make sense of it all (e.g. a brain)
Viv Trafalgar: I need to jump out early tonight - goodnight all
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: goodnight Viv!
Marc Rexen: Need a Google Nvivo. :)
Mimi Muircastle: see you viv
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Any final thoughts tonight?
Willow Shenlin: @sheila brain = a tool. i like that LOL
Ninlil Xeltentat: I really love Google wave for collaboration.
Mimi Muircastle: great discussion - good job, Iggy!!!!
Margaret Michalski: thinks Iggy sparked an idea as a topic in the future
Sheila Yoshikawa: yes, thanks
Ninlil Xeltentat: I think that it is a great discussion, and the assignment sounds like something many educators should replicate.
Mimi Muircastle: and very glad there will be a chat log !
Willow Shenlin: Thanks. gotta go
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: thanks--AJ has big shoes to fill...least we didn't ban anyone this week :D