Transcript of Virtual Worlds Education Roundtable: Feb. 16, 2010

Topic: Reading meeting!

Links: "Promoting Reflection through Action Learning in a 3D Virtual World" by R.L. Sanders, L. McKeown. The article may be found at : http://bit.ly/amzSgs

Margaret Michalski: Hi everyone, and welcome to the Virtual Worlds Education Roundtable meeting. Our meetings are made possible by the Office of Information Technology at Montclair State University. We meet here each week at 2:30pm SLT for an hour.

Stephan Mrigesh: Toronto, Canada here

Margaret Michalski: For those sitting up in the amphitheater seating, please come down and join us around the roundtable. There is always an empty seat on the side closest to the ramp.

ValentineBouquet Garnet: Hi Gwenette! we have 30 inches here in Pittsburgh

Margaret Michalski: The Virtual Worlds Education Roundtable is a forum to educate and inform the community about issues that are important and relevant to education.

Birdie Newcomb: sunny california

Margaret Michalski: The views and opinions of any of our special guests or visitors do not necessarily represent those who volunteer or organize these meetings,

Margaret Michalski: or of the College of Humanities and Social Sciences, Office of Information Technology , or Montclair State University.

Gwenette Writer: Ahh Birdie makes me homesick:)

Margaret Michalski: Today's meeting is "The Reading Meeting -Promoting Reflection through Action Learning in a 3D Virtual World" by R.L. Sanders, L. McKeown. The article may be found at : http://bit.ly/amzSgs

Margaret Michalski: The facilitator of this meeting is Margaret Michalski.

Margaret Michalski: This is a public meeting, so we do keep a transcript of what is said in local chat. For a copy of transcripts, please visit http://www.vwer.org. If you've not seen the transcripts, you should check them out - they are a great information asset.

Margaret Michalski: The Virtual Worlds Education Roundtable meeting happens each week and we continue to develop a community of educators from around the world with a variety of thoughts, needs, and ideas.

Margaret Michalski: Please join the Virtual Worlds Education Roundtable group here in SL. You can also find us on Facebook, LinkedIn, Flicker, and KoinUp, as well as on Twitter as VWER.

Margaret Michalski: Our visit into the Reaction Grid will be February 18th. Please contact Olivia Hotshot for details.

Margaret Michalski: Finally, if you have Mystitool on, or other similar tool, please put it to sleep or detach it for now. It tends to lag things. As a hint, it is better to have "local chat" open for these meetings, it will help you follow along better.

Margaret Michalski: You can find local chat by clicking COMMUNICATE in the bottom navigation bar and you'll find LOCAL CHAT as one of the tabs at the bottom of the window.

Birdie Newcomb: we had a light sprinkling of snow on the mountain peaks a few weeks ago... *=)

Margaret Michalski: I'd also like to remind folks to come on down and join us around the table, there's always an open seat closest to the ramp.

Margaret Michalski: Why don't we get started they way we usually do, by introducing ourselves. No need to wait, go ahead and type who you are, where you are, and your ties to education into local chat.

Margaret Michalski: My name is Margaret Czart, Doctoral Student and Research Information Specialist from the University of Illinois at Chicago, Department of Distant Medical Education.

Birdie Newcomb: Birdie lifelong learner, life getting longer.

Csteph Submariner: Chris Stephens Code Monkey University of Oxford

Lavarrynth45 Heron: I am H. L. Spiegel, instructional technologist

Kathryn Pleides: Kathryn Frech, school librarian

Stephan Mrigesh: LOL Birdie, my short haired dog needs a jacket, but I don't complain.

Wena Merlin: Hi. I'm a language tutor and a PhD student at the University of Birmingham / UK

Kali Pizzaro: Evelyn McElhinney Glasgow Caledonian University, RN and Lecturer

Kendra Organiser: I am Kay Endriss, teaching high school statistics in Winston Salem, North Carolina

Rik Python: Rik Pyton - Global Hybrid Video Machinima PREPROD PROD POST FX

ValentineBouquet Garnet: Professor, Pittsburgh

Gwenette Writer: Gwenette Writer Sinclair vw developer

Jan Itano: Janet A edtech coordinator from Pittsburgh. frozen

Ilene Pratt: Ilene Frank - librarian retired from University of South Florida in RL

Mimi Muircastle: Mimi Muircastle/Charlotte VWER com. retired mid. sch. prin. never ending learner like Birdie :)

Kali Pizzaro: Hi All seat at the back of the table

Gwenette Writer: dev eloping lirary complex for Kennesaw State now so perfect timing :))

Shaw Checchinato: James Shock, writer and HCI student with Iowa State.

Margaret Michalski: anyone else

Stephan Mrigesh: Simply Stephan founder of the College of Internet Virtual Life

Zotarah Shepherd: I am a MA in Education (technology & psychology) student at Sonoma State University in northern California working on a curriculum project: Teaching and Learning Life Foundation Skills in Second Life. Visit my Immersive Interactive Educational builds on Ralanora. I also have a build for Multiple Intelligences on Koru.

Kali Pizzaro: Join us at the table folks

Trudy Takacs: Trudy Takacs, education and job training - also frozen in Connecticut

Opal Zepp: Cheryl Tarsala, University of Illinois adjunct, instructor in Library and Information Science.

Kali Pizzaro: seats at teh back of the table

Toddles Lightworker: Todd Cochrane partime PhD Student Uni Canterbury NZ, full time staff at the Wellington Insititute of Technology in Wellington NZ , Learning about reseerch in education and how to use MUVEs in vocational ed

Dusty Artaud: Randi Kopp, Kidsbridge Tolerance Museum, TCNJ, NJ

JeanClaude Vollmar: I'm Jeff Le Blanc from the University of Northwestern Ohio. I'm their VP for IT.

KarenJane Greymoon: Karen Sorensen, Ph.D. candidate at NDSU in Fargo. I'm sort of an SL newbie and skeptic, to be honest.

Logos Sohl: Niamh O Riordan, PhD student investigating innovation in virtual worlds educational projects.

Margaret Michalski: going once

Logos Sohl: @KarenJane give it a little time...

Margaret Michalski: going twice

Kali Pizzaro: join us we don't bite on Tuesdays

Margaret Michalski: Sold to the man who has a vacation day from facilitating this meeting.

Kendra Organiser: @KarenJane - laugh as we all talk about snow!

KarenJane Greymoon: I tried last week, but had technical difficulties....I hope to do better this week.

Kali Pizzaro: Welcome

Margaret Michalski: Now, the authors R.L. Sanders & L.Mckeown cannot be here tonight but they have offered to answer any questions about the paper. Hopefully you have had a chance to read the paper.

KarenJane Greymoon: Yes, they are forecasting another potential 500 year flood here this spring. Third 500 year flood in 13 years.

Dagmar Kojishi: /mg suspend

Margaret Michalski: If you want to ask anything direct to her please IM me. Answers will appear on one of the blogs later.

Margaret Michalski: To start us off I would like to say a few words about the article. Overall, I personnaly thought the authors adderessed questions important to teaching and learning in a virtual world environment. As a student, who has not taken very many action learning courses I would agree with the responses. However, as a researcher I would like to be given a table or some other sort of summary on the students responses in addition to the statements given in the article.

Stephan Mrigesh: Is the paper published online, and do you have a URL for us to click on?

Margaret Michalski: What is your opinion about the results of each research questions addressed. Let us take the first question: How did action Learning Change the way you think about teaching and learning? Feel free to use your personal experiences.

Wena Merlin: http://www.waset.org/journals/ijss/v2/v2-1-8.pdf

Kali Pizzaro: http://elearningresearch.middlesex.wikispaces.net/file/view/Sanders+&+McKeown.pdf/96377750/Sanders+&+McKeown.pdf

Stephan Mrigesh: ty

Kali Pizzaro: Stephen Join our FB and you will get a link to the paper in advance

Margaret Michalski: Please don't be shy there is no wrong answer

Stephan Mrigesh: apologies.

Kali Pizzaro: no problem Stephen

Mimi Muircastle: well, to me, this approach to teaching and learning just makes sense - both as an adult learner and for the young students I have taught

Margaret Michalski: What ae you ro opinions on the research questions

Birdie Newcomb: Is Action Learning just a new name for what people have already been doing?

Margaret Michalski: stated in the article

Kendra Organiser: I like the notion that asking more questions helps others find their own answers.

Mimi Muircastle: it is to me, Birdie :)

Margaret Michalski: action learning is learning by doing

Margaret Michalski: that is how I see it

Kali Pizzaro: it is a experiential learning with a bit of social constructivism

Wena Merlin: TPR - Total Physical Response

Kali Pizzaro: i see it like that

Margaret Michalski: is that how everyone else views it

Logos Sohl: Reflection is a big part of it too

Kali Pizzaro: something we have been doing in nursing for a long time

Birdie Newcomb: it seems similar to my plan -- plunge ahead, make mistakes, try again.

Toddles Lightworker: it seems that "reflection " and other questions may not , at a glance btw, be about VW learning specifically?

Kendra Organiser: @Birdie - that's how I learn!

Mimi Muircastle: I agree Birdie - young learners love this kind of learning as it is engaging and active

Csteph Submariner: does it apply to more academic subjects? If so, how?

Margaret Michalski: action learning theoretically does let you learn by making mistakes

Mimi Muircastle: and, so do the adults that I have taught in educ. grad school

Logos Sohl: I was thinking today about the idea that action learning might be the only way to learn as regards virtual worlds for now as we are all still finding our way even in terms of the environments themselves and how they ought to be used

Stephan Mrigesh: Would it be that in a weird way, we are actually exploring the possibillities of Socialism? (Being that we have no Democratic control of our environment.)

Mimi Muircastle: good pt. Logos

Birdie Newcomb: anarchy might be closer

Ilene Pratt: Toddles, that's what I thought to - I kept trying to figure out if there was something special about this course taking place in Active Worlds.

Opal Zepp: I agree Toddles, they don't seem to address the VW component of the experience specifically.

Kendra Organiser: nice, Logos

Margaret Michalski: in the case of the article they put it as explore plan act and reflect

Margaret Michalski: do you agree with this

Kali Pizzaro: experiential learning

Birdie Newcomb: good to put explore before plan

Margaret Michalski: I personally don't se one definition of active learning

Birdie Newcomb: the other way around always got me in trouble

Kali Pizzaro: haha

Mimi Muircastle: @Birdie :)

Logos Sohl: Active learning or action learning

Toddles Lightworker: so explore works in constructionist applications of VW ?

Logos Sohl: ?

Kali Pizzaro: indeed logos

Logos Sohl: y

cyber Placebo: y

Toddles Lightworker: yes

Wena Merlin: y

Ilene Pratt: Yes!

Opal Zepp: y

Birdie Newcomb: yes

Zotarah Shepherd: y

Shaw Checchinato: yes.

Mimi Muircastle: there is also Action Research I have used in grad school

Dagmar Kojishi: So it seems!

Margaret Michalski: ok

Gwenette Writer: yes loud and clear

Stephan Mrigesh: Loud and Clear:)

Kali Pizzaro: text only this meeting

Rik Python: y

Kali Pizzaro: thanks

ValentineBouquet Garnet: finally!

Margaret Michalski: so how do you feel about the students experience

Margaret Michalski: to how action learning changed the way

Margaret Michalski: they thought about learning and teaching

Margaret Michalski: as a student I would agree

Shaw Checchinato: question....are we using "action based learning" to equally mean "project based learning?"

Mimi Muircastle: good ques. @Shaw

Logos Sohl: For the students in this course "Students know and can see when their colleagues are logged into the world. They can walk up to another and talk to them about life, work, or the latest news. Through these interactions, both planned and serendipitous, students begin to create knowledge together. They talk about the work they are doing in class, they share ideas, processes, and resources with one another and contribute to the base of knowledge that exists in their field. Throughout this process, they move from novice to expert, both in terms of knowledge and skills, but also in terms of their abilities to work collaboratively and inside a virtual learning environment using tools previously unknown to them." But many of the people I speak to here are self directed learners, isolates who work alone and don't tend to engage the community or other people to help them. I find that surprising.

Margaret Michalski: in this particular case I would say they are equal

Margaret Michalski: but it is only my opinion

Logos Sohl: Are we really so social in our learning and are our students social?

Shaw Checchinato: ok...thanks....that was my thought.

Shaw Checchinato: just wanted to be sure.

Margaret Michalski: in the article the students

Margaret Michalski: had to reflect on their on

Mimi Muircastle: I think it partially goes back to the old ques. of learning styles and finding ways you learn best

Margaret Michalski: as I understood it

Kali Pizzaro: they all fit the constructivist theory to try to promote deep learning

Birdie Newcomb: grad students might be more ready for this than undergrads.

Stephan Mrigesh: One of the best things to know about planning, is that hardly anything goes to plan, so keeping an open environment to make those mistakes in would be vital to your

ultimate goal. IMHO

Toddles Lightworker: ultimately the pedagogy is determined though ?

Margaret Michalski: are their experiences equal to that any of you have expeirenced in action learning

Mimi Muircastle: not sure about that Birdie as I have used it and seen it used at the middle school level very successfully

Rik Python: Sounds like "Agile" development methods used in the commercial IT world.

Gwenette Writer: this medium of vw works for collaborative learning as well as individual endeavors . . . a very flexible medium . . . depends on design of curriculum delivery . . .

cyber Placebo: An article about VW and PBL that might of interest http://previewpsych.org/BPD2.0.pdf

Margaret Michalski: @ Birdie I am a graduate student

Csteph Submariner: sorry, as a lowly techie, I am a little lost in the jargon; constructivist? deep learning?

Dagmar Kojishi: I agree about "grad students might be more ready...." I continue to deal with resistance from students who just want me to show them which hoop I want them to jump through, and then give them a biscuit when they do it.

Kali Pizzaro: indeed Gwenette

Margaret Michalski: and at my institution there is no real stress on action learning

Mimi Muircastle: agree, Gwenette

Logos Sohl: I worry that the article is based on self report

Rik Python: "Agile" is an unstructured, iterative approach to project management.

Mimi Muircastle: good pt. Logos

Logos Sohl: I worry that students were told to design their own active learning research projects

Kali Pizzaro: Dagmar not acceptable in higher education, but does not mean students are ready for it

Margaret Michalski: I, a doctoral student maybe had one exercise that involved action learning

Mimi Muircastle: but how is that a problem, Logos

Margaret Michalski: So, when I evaluate this article I look at what I missed out on.

Logos Sohl: Becuase one of the findings is that they were more aware of the active learning component of the course

Mimi Muircastle: ok

Dagmar Kojishi: @Kali. I agree, not acceptable. More and more (I've been doing this 25 years) they seem surprised that anyone expect anything more, though.

Ilene Pratt: Logos, there was some structure there - they were all exploring school media center issues/concerns.

Zotarah Shepherd: Students must become more immersed in the subject when they have to participate in a class to find answers or build a project, which is the best use of a VW

Margaret Michalski: Even if they design their own projects they learn by doing

Mimi Muircastle: so true, Zo

Gwenette Writer: Agile methods generally promote a disciplined project management process that encourages frequent inspection and adaptation, a leadership philosophy that encourages teamwork, self-organization and accountability, a set of engineering best practices intended to allow for rapid delivery of high-quality software, and a business approach that aligns development with customer needs and company goals. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agile_software_development this IS often what happens here in sl/vw as there are so many levels of expertise on any given project and also the platform itself is constantly evolving

Toddles Lightworker: agile is also about extending the development into the "community of stakeholders" in very short and immediate cycles testing and planing

Margaret Michalski: So the students reaction to the action learning is not a real surprize to anyone

Ilene Pratt: But Zotarah, could they do the same thing in RL? Seems like students would benefit by talking to RL school media librarians - I couldn't tell how that was incorporated (though it seemed to be incorporated in earlier syllabi for this course.)

Birdie Newcomb: It moves beyond grades to get to the actual subject matter.

Mimi Muircastle: no surprise to me :)

Stephan Mrigesh: If you start throwing in barriers to the learning curve of any individual, or group interest that would be prospective clients/students, the potential profit of those who seek unfiltered content would plummet, and feel better trying to hack the information on their own? (No need for schools.)

Logos Sohl: If they are told that they must design their own action learning then they will be more aware of it in the project and then it's not a shock that they report being more aware of it. That's the point I was making. As a course concept it's pretty neat because it encompasses self direction elements

Kali Pizzaro: what about reflection, a vital component in action learning. Do you think this is easy for the students

Margaret Michalski: yes Kali

Gwenette Writer: I think for library science the future of information storage and rtrieval will be intimately tied to vw platforms and cloud computing . . . might be good students understand this medium yes??

Margaret Michalski: that leads us to the 2nd research question

Margaret Michalski: what role does reflection play in learning

Margaret Michalski: sorry major lag

Zotarah Shepherd: Yes of course Ilene, thought there are many things in SL that are not possible or would be expensive or time consuming in first life.

Kali Pizzaro: when we started doing it in nursing it was a difficult concept for the students to understand

cyber Placebo: reflection = taking ownership of knowledge

cyber Placebo: higher order thinking skill

cyber Placebo: bloom's taxonomy

Mimi Muircastle: yes, cyber!

Kali Pizzaro: it can be a emotional experience

Mimi Muircastle: good learning is often emotional !

Kali Pizzaro: indeed

Teachergirl Razor: agreed

Ilene Pratt: Gwenette, I agree - Active Worlds is a great platform and lib sci students should get involved, but I wasn't sure how using it differed from going over to a RL media center .

Margaret Michalski: again, as a student I have never taken a course that required me to actually reflect on the project

KarenJane Greymoon: I like using reflection exercises in my classes, because often students don't reflect unless it is assigned, it seems.

cyber Placebo: it is changing hopefully margaret

cyber Placebo: slowly

ValentineBouquet Garnet: I use reflection in all of my classes

Kali Pizzaro: we use reflective assessments all the time in nursing about the last ten years

ValentineBouquet Garnet: as part of assignments and as part of in class discussions

Mimi Muircastle: well, I beg to differ - my entire doctoral program was based on action research etc. with reflection required for 3 years!

Zotarah Shepherd: I have been reading a few theses this week and some mention the ways we can gage the depth of reflection and immersion.

Toddles Lightworker: if you are dealing with community of practice , does not the community have specific artifacts or objects that identify the learner as having developed to a requisite level hence scaffolding may be necessary rather tahn jsut freeform learning i.e. no schools?

Margaret Michalski: In the article the students appeared to really like the concept of reflection

Birdie Newcomb: important in a field like nursing, IMHO

Ilene Pratt: I've used reflection as well - good results for students - and good reads for me ;)

Opal Zepp: Reflection + assignment, do students find it to be a lot of "extra" work?

Logos Sohl: As regards reflection the students don't talk about the second kind of reflection: the social reflection aspects. We might have expected this to come out strongly. But students are talking more around their blogs and journals. This suggests to me that the vw itself didn't necessarily aid the reflection aspects or if it did, students didnt comment on it

KarenJane Greymoon: I try to have them set goal at the beginning of the class, revisit them at midterm and then write a final reflection at the end

ValentineBouquet Garnet: a great to mine the discussion

Teachergirl Razor: I use it in info and media studies

Margaret Michalski: Had I done it more perhaps It would have been much more beneficial

Shaw Checchinato: Question....I see the results....but I find the methodology seems to steer the results...

Mimi Muircastle: good teaching, karenJane :)

ValentineBouquet Garnet: reflection is an essential part of student learning

Gwenette Writer: @ Ilene: if it does not differ that is perhaps a signal that the curriculum delivery is not incorporating the unique creative aspects of the vw medium . . .

Shaw Checchinato: are the results purely derived from qualitative measures?

Margaret Michalski: I must say that I do not like the concept of survey. People tend to answer how you think they should answer

Birdie Newcomb: reflection is one of the difficult to measure qualities

cyber Placebo: don't let the medium wag the dog's tail though

Mimi Muircastle: funny, for me personally, when I get to do action learning research etc. I am an excellent student, but when i cannot, not such a good student :)

Ilene Pratt: Gwenette, yeah! Maybe they did it with the class maybe not so much - I guess I just wanted to know more about the nuts and bolts of the course.

Logos Sohl: Undergradds struggle to do reflective work or they perhaps don't like sharing it with instructors who are grading them. I'm pretty sure my entire class is afraid to comment on what they really think of SL for fear that I might take offence

KarenJane Greymoon: @margaret--I agree. Sometimes I get the feeling they are saying what they think I want to hear rather than what they really feel.

Margaret Michalski: in this case they used blogs and other for reflection

cyber Placebo: that is because it is not streamlined with primary and secondary ed

Csteph Submariner: @cyber agreed, there is sometimes a tendency to let the technology drive things

Margaret Michalski: is this a standards for most

Logos Sohl: @Shaw I see this too

Dagmar Kojishi: What would a typical reflective practice or action learning project look like? How would you do the reflection part?

Kali Pizzaro: Cyber good point

Shaw Checchinato: good.

Margaret Michalski: I see it as beneficial to both the students and the teachers

Birdie Newcomb: that's what they learned i high school -- tell the teacher what they think she wants to hear

Kali Pizzaro: in nursing this may be reflecting on a critical incident

cyber Placebo: @dagmar depending on what you teach

Gwenette Writer: anonomous communication drops are great tool for reflection

Teachergirl Razor: mine seem anxious for me to know whether they really like or really dislike it -- the others are quiet

Shaw Checchinato: its a good paper but without a sound methodology the results appear skewed.

Gwenette Writer: y haha

Opal Zepp: Elaborate, Kali, pls

Margaret Michalski: @ shaw I agree

Dagmar Kojishi: I understand, Cyber, but I'm thinking generally. Discussion roundtable? Blog? Journal?

Kali Pizzaro: interestingly the students in this paper found the reflection increased their self confidence

Gwenette Writer: reflection is to be about the delivery or the personal expereince??

KarenJane Greymoon: I also have difficulty getting people to explain "why" or "how"...they stop at the "is"

Margaret Michalski: it would have been better if they perhaps gave a specific example for the project

Stephan Mrigesh: How unique does a student feel in a world of pixels? Yes, I can design my Avatar to be anything, but what advantage is that to any one, when my good looks do not get me by any more, and the only content I can produce to prove my worthy as a Citizen here, comes from my brain alone, and without physical interaction.?

cyber Placebo: in language courses intercultural experimentation is essential, interacting with semi-immersive objects and environments can be a good way to provide reflective work for students

Mimi Muircastle: great pt. Stephan

Gwenette Writer: ahahah I consider this physical interaction @sm

Logos Sohl: I'd like to see more specific information about what tools they used and more importantly how they mapped onto the action learning pedagogy

Margaret Michalski: @ Kali I would too

Margaret Michalski: reflection would tell me why I did certain things

Margaret Michalski: and I would see why I should have done it differently

Gwenette Writer: here we begin to understand what IS truly unique about us IS our consciousness the rest of our physicalness in rl or vw is randomly assigned our consciosness is our own

Mimi Muircastle: yes, Margaret, that is the value from my pov

Rik Python: We find that younger students relate better to an evolutionary agenda during collaboration, and reflect on both the message along with the techniques/process for structure -- in realtime.

Mimi Muircastle: I have seen that Rik

cyber Placebo: Again for languages playing with looks is an important element of descriptive language, you go beyond how good you look but it is another way of experimenting with action learning and taking ownership of describing yourself (one never talks better than about oneself)

Kendra Organiser: @ Rik - what do you mean an evolutionary agenda?

Rik Python: Evolutionary agenda is iterative

Kendra Organiser: ty

Rik Python: It happens as a result of participation real-time

KarenJane Greymoon: Studies have started to show that the brain does not see as much of a difference in perception between something really happening and something virtually happening. They did students with people virtually eating and found that they felt full (or even ill) when it was over. I think students do feel their unique presence here. It is a challenge for me to make it productive.

Gwenette Writer: younger students are immersed in ever evolving social networks structures that they can join, create, dissolve as needed to collaborate or communicate

Gwenette Writer: naturally "agile" hahhaha

Rik Python: where players jump into the project "out of the box"

Rik Python: It works with Video production.

KarenJane Greymoon: *they did studies, not students

Margaret Michalski: considering the fact that these are graduate students is reflection just as important as it would be if these wre undergraduate

cyber Placebo: @karenjane, wow scary

Rik Python: But you have to also know the structure of Production infrastructure

Gwenette Writer: @KJ yes that IS the challenge we are HERE so now what do we DO:)

Mimi Muircastle: to me, reflection is critical to learning at every level

Kali Pizzaro: agree Mimi

cyber Placebo: @karenjane, do you know where I can find that study?

Mimi Muircastle: :)

Kali Pizzaro: we use at all levels

Rik Python: Seems like kids want to jump into it rather than submit to excessive structure as to how to do it

Margaret Michalski: So how about how it has changed the students

KarenJane Greymoon: yes...let me go look for the link. brb

Margaret Michalski: students

Mimi Muircastle: yes Rik - and me too!

Kali Pizzaro: as we want them to reflect to think about how they can change clinical practice

Logos Sohl: When I ask people here how they've learned to do what they do, they often find it hard to tell me. Is this because they haven't reflected on it or because learning doesn't take place at conscious levels

Margaret Michalski: technically a course should make a person more knowledgeable

Mimi Muircastle: yes, very important, Kali

Mimi Muircastle: I think they did not have a chance to reflect

Logos Sohl: Is reflection more important where we are trying to teach know how or know what or is there a difference

Oronoque Westland: since I am late I am sorry to jump in with something that may be off the point...my undergrad students felt that by my assigning reflective journals I indicated that I valued their thoughts, feelings and suggestions

Logos Sohl: Bailenson has some studies on that idea @ cyber

Mimi Muircastle: great point Oronoque!!!!!!!!!!

Stephan Mrigesh: I suppose it all depends on what each teacher see's as being the future?

Teachergirl Razor: had that experience too

cyber Placebo: (I don't know Arthur said, I don't remember what I was taught, I only remember what I learnt" (The white mandala)

Kali Pizzaro: another important point about reflection is that some cultures do not believe in it. it is a very western concept

Kali Pizzaro: some argue

Rik Python: Seems kids are better a reflecting "real'time" rather than pausing or going somewhere to do it.

cyber Placebo: it is not that they don't believe in it, it is just a way of refraining liberal thoughts on behalf of the people

Margaret Michalski: After reading this article I have found is that reflection is the key

Gwenette Writer: @MM technically the more I studied any subject, the more I realized the size of the body of knowledge I did NOT know hahah

Birdie Newcomb: Interesting thought @Kali

cyber Placebo: a way of keep the herd quiet

Stephan Mrigesh: You want your students to succeed, but what if everything you are teaching them is outdated by the time they get there?

Margaret Michalski: the students liked it because they actually thought about it

Margaret Michalski: they changed because they thought about it

Logos Sohl: I can see that when I learn the piano I don't reflect on what I'm actually doing. How could I? All I can reflect on is the strategies I'm using.

Kali Pizzaro: also how do we assess reflection if it is a personal experience.

Kali Pizzaro: but do you do it later

Shaw Checchinato: I don't know Kali...seems reflection is also a natural reflex in the learning process. How many times have we been a part of a active learning process and after it was over with...how often have we thought about what we learned?

Kali Pizzaro: logos

Mimi Muircastle: why do we have to assess everything???

Kali Pizzaro: hah

Logos Sohl: @ G Write - I hear you!

Rik Python: Yes, natural reflex

Toddles Lightworker: I thought that too, that reflection was what was being talked about

cyber Placebo: well that is already reflection Logos

Logos Sohl is in trouble with Kali :(

Kali Pizzaro: Shaw not saying i agree just tossing it out there

Kali Pizzaro: haha

Gwenette Writer: reflection as O mentioned implies worth of the individual and their perceptions of their own experience. That is an empowerment not popular in many places

Shaw Checchinato: ah..

cyber Placebo: learning strategies is probably what is most essential then comes the contents

cyber Placebo: that is what is missed in most undergraduate courses

Kali Pizzaro: no if we think about Schon he writes about reflection - in - action and reflection - on - action

cyber Placebo: this should be taught right from primary

Mimi Muircastle: Yes Cyber!

Rik Python: Both-and, not either-or, and "real-time" -- something we are not used to.

Kali Pizzaro: i cant comment on children but why not

Mimi Muircastle: most little kids reflect whether you want them to or not :)

Logos Sohl: Yes it is @ cyber but I can't reflect on how I actually learn it as I don't know how I learn. I can only reflect on the activities that might lead to learning

Birdie Newcomb: can't control the students if they all think for themselves -- until grad school

cyber Placebo: @kali sure

Logos Sohl: @ kali this is a good point, thank you

Toddles Lightworker: is planning intrinsically leading to reflection?

Mimi Muircastle: good one, Birdie :)

Shaw Checchinato: matter of fact, active reelection is seen through the action of showing interest in the process of learning....that has been documented by "The Horizon Report" and "The DIMPLE Project".

Kali Pizzaro: so you use other learning theories to learn Logos - trial and error

Gwenette Writer: @ LS you know how you learn ahhaahh reflect on it:))

Margaret Michalski: @ Toddles I would say yes

Stephan Mrigesh: Interesting point Birdie

Margaret Michalski: when you plan you need to think about what you want to do hand how elevant it is

KarenJane Greymoon: Here is the link...there is lots of information here, so click on all the links. http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/digitalnation/virtual-worlds/second-lives/the-avatar-effect.html?play (sorry--it took me a minute)

Kali Pizzaro: this is the thing no one theory fits all learning

Toddles Lightworker: so different levels of reflection

Logos Sohl: Social reflection and virtual worlds

Logos Sohl: What about social reflection

Jumbalia Zimminy: Hello, I am new here, just coming in for my first Second Life-educational meeting... Can anyone bring me up to speed and provide any protocol for how this works? thanks so much!

Gwenette Writer: in Hawaii they expect the students k-12 to: 1. Understand the learning goal 2. the learning method 3. the lactivity product 4. the assessment method 5. their own "placement" in the standard rubric

Logos Sohl: Does it happen?

Stephan Mrigesh: Hi Jumbalia

Olivia Hotshot: Welcome Jumbalia.

Jumbalia Zimminy: Thankyou, great to be here.

Kali Pizzaro: Can someone turn off their mic

Rik Python: Hey Jumbalia, just chat ...

Kali Pizzaro: we can hear you

Ilene Pratt: Jumbalia, we're talking about Action Learning in relation to this article: http://www.waset.org/journals/ijss/v2/v2-1-8.pdf

Jumbalia Zimminy: yes i see, great thank you

Olivia Hotshot: All mics are off.

Jumbalia Zimminy: ok i'll check the article out

Stephan Mrigesh: I suspect all these people are thinking Jumbalia, do not be alarmed lol:)

Ilene Pratt: We're reflecting! ;)

Gwenette Writer: umm I am green dot but my mic is and has been off is there still live I used inline mute had this problem yesterday . . .??

Margaret Michalski: If anyone has specific questions for the author please IM them to me directly

Jumbalia Zimminy: i see, i'll pick a topic in the local chat and then we just chat away...

Kali Pizzaro: hahahaha i am so dumb that was the link plating in the background

Rik Python: In "Real Time"

Kali Pizzaro: playing

Logos Sohl: me too kali!

Gwenette Writer: recently discussing REFLECTION

Toddles Lightworker: thanks @Margret

Margaret Michalski: It is funny thought that they did not talk much about the echnical problems during the projects

Gwenette Writer: so did we qualify action vs project learning someone asked about that

Olivia Hotshot: Jumbalia - there is a topic already and Margaret is leading it

Margaret Michalski: technical

Kali Pizzaro: interchangeable

Margaret Michalski: Since they did mention that the platform of Active worlds did not have much an difference

Kali Pizzaro: 26 on the sim for the transcript

Toddles Lightworker: not sure about project based learning being interchangeable , it seems like action has strong definition ?

Margaret Michalski: then they succesded having the students learn to reflect

Rik Python: Reflect on what: Message or tools ...

Kali Pizzaro: thanks toddles i wondered who would comment

Birdie Newcomb: I would imagine that project learning would assess the project, action learning assess the student

Birdie Newcomb: if that could be done

Margaret Michalski: @ Rik students learned to reflect on their work

Oronoque Westland: I do not think reflection is "new"..."how I spent my summer vacation"...personal diaries...just being put to a different purpose

Kali Pizzaro: so do you think this is an approach you would consider in the future? if not already using

Kendra Organiser: Is reflection such a big piece of project based learning, though?

Kali Pizzaro: yes Oronoque we have used it in nursing for about ten years

Rik Python: yest, in IT

Gwenette Writer: from abstract re action learning: The pedagogy of Action Learning coupled with a 3D virtual learning environment immerses students in a social constructivist learning
space that incorporates and supports interaction and reflection. The intent of this study was to build a bridge between theory and practice by providing students with a tool set that promoted personal and social reflection, and created and scaffolded a community of practice. Besides, action learning is an educational process whereby the fifty graduate students experienced their own actions and experience to improve performance.

Kali Pizzaro: builds on dewey, kolbs etc

Zotarah Shepherd: I did noy know my voice was important until the last few years. The topics I reflect upon are more relevant to me now. Reflection does that. I wish strudents at all levels would be encouraged to do that. It helps learning.

Margaret Michalski: Health filed tends to have many action learning courses and reflection plays a key part

Gwenette Writer: I def do not think reflection is a chronological diary activity

Kali Pizzaro: in nursing it helps to bridge the theory practice gap

Kali Pizzaro: practice

Oronoque Westland: I learned about reflection as a learning tool in education courses and in feminist studies...I now apply it in the social sciences and love it (except it gives me sooooo much to read lol)

Margaret Michalski: One student mentioned that reflection should be done at the nd of the project

Margaret Michalski: do you gree

Margaret Michalski: agree

Stephan Mrigesh: One of my favorite slogans is "Adapt & Overcome" and that holds true here IMO where we admit we just do not know, but have a notion that this is the place to be, or we would have given up long a go;)

Mimi Muircastle: yes!

Kali Pizzaro: or is it ongoing

KarenJane Greymoon: I think it needs to be done at intervals and at the end

Toddles Lightworker: reflection does not need to be explicitly monitored but could be seen in learner behaviour and in say interviews

Kendra Organiser: I like KarenJane's approach - goal-set, midcourse check, then reflect @end

Stephan Mrigesh: This is truly the next Gen of the Internet, but the speed is hard to grasp:)

Margaret Michalski: I would suspect a students would reflect at every stage of a project

Olivia Hotshot: reelection does not always have to be journaling - a group can also reflect and process what has transpired with oral or visual methods

Margaret Michalski: at least that is what I would do

cyber Placebo: reflection is exhausting and need to be used appropriately especially if the whole course / papers is/are demanding

Kali Pizzaro: yes it is ongoing

Rik Python: Reflection lets my IT teams become aware of work of other teams and processes related to the ones they are involved with. i.e., learning how to collaborate with other than self.

Oronoque Westland: last semester I tried out lots of new things with the students, so their reflective journals were continuous in case some one needed to cry out for help...then a wrap up for the final installment

Kali Pizzaro: it can be done by just speaking about a concept at the end of clas

Gwenette Writer: I think reflection is an immersive activity it is always happening . . . it is an aspect of conscious learning

Margaret Michalski: I was just surprised that a student only saw it useful at the very end

Olivia Hotshot: And it needs a talented facilitator to lead reflection activities so that the reflection carries some specifics needed to move on

Mimi Muircastle: yes, agree Gwenette

Dagmar Kojishi: I must get to a RL meeting. Thanks, all, I'll look forward to the transcript!

KarenJane Greymoon: reflection gives students the opportunity to investigate process, which is very hard to teach.

Birdie Newcomb: "conscious learning" -- I like that phrase

Margaret Michalski: @ Olivia, you are right

Stephan Mrigesh: me too Birdie:0

Kali Pizzaro: so does it promote deeper learning?

Olivia Hotshot: thanks Margaret

Kali Pizzaro: deeper

Gwenette Writer: deeper learning as in??

Kali Pizzaro: what do you think

Margaret Michalski: in a group of students there always in that one students that leads the rest

Kali Pizzaro: goes beond the subject content

Kali Pizzaro: spelling

Birdie Newcomb: If it's put to use, so it sticks, then it qualifies as deeper learning

Kali Pizzaro: as opposed to superficial

Shaw Checchinato: well time for another meeting...nice to see you all again.

Olivia Hotshot: I also think educators tend to use reflection as a learning tool at the end of an activity - a culmination of a project, rather than used at speciific steps along the way. The end relection piece might lend itself to deeper learning in the culmination step.

Oronoque Westland: for me the students' reflections were both a means of self-assessment and constructive criticism of the course

Kali Pizzaro: thanks Shaw

Gwenette Writer: well learning can be an acquisition of facts: I now HAVE OWN KNOW these facts or it can be an immersion and a marriage of the information discovered mashed up to YOU very different experiences and results

KarenJane Greymoon: @ Kali--yes, beyond subject content. We need to teach them how to learn and adapt because content is ever changing. Learning process and reflection will help them be nimble in their careers

Margaret Michalski: I just wonder if the fact that this curse was more blended was it the face-to-face part or vw part that made the big difference in reflection

Logos Sohl: How can we teach students to facilitate the learning of others

Olivia Hotshot: Margaret that would be difficult to pin point, i would think.

Margaret Michalski: Would the results have been different if it were strictly online in vw

Stephan Mrigesh: "Conscious Learning" I liked, but remember that if you wipe out all those that are here un-consciously then you would have no one to study, or school;)

Gwenette Writer: @sm u have such little faith hahahhah

Kali Pizzaro: Logos good question

Logos Sohl: @MM I think we've no way to know given the way the info is presented

Oronoque Westland wonders if SL chat is not a form of reflection

Kendra Organiser: @Logos, aren't we facilitating each others' learning here tonight?

Gwenette Writer: @OW oh I think so ahhaha

Kali Pizzaro: do we reflect all the time

Mimi Muircastle: good pt. Oronoque - for me it is reflective

Gwenette Writer: sighs and looks again in mirror:)

Olivia Hotshot: Oronoque - it sure could be - especially the transcript

Margaret Michalski: @ Logos, I would say that they one watches others as examples even if tey don't say it

Gwenette Writer: @MM is that reflective or reactive??

Oronoque Westland: in RL we would not chat anywhere near this amount during a presentation or even a discussion...in SL we chat ENDLESSLY lol

Mimi Muircastle: reactive = reflective

Kali Pizzaro: is it easier to reflect after the event?

Kali Pizzaro: reflection - on - action

Gwenette Writer: @MM reactive = monkey sleeping reflective = awake??

Toddles Lightworker: thats an affordance from chat , but is it SL ? chatting endlessly ?

Olivia Hotshot: Kali - i don't think it is.

Logos Sohl: But how much of the actual chat do we each process and if we asked students to talk face to face about content would that be reflective

Margaret Michalski: @ Kali, I would agree with olivia

Kali Pizzaro: Olivia is it that is we do it later we are just more aware of it

Kendra Organiser: @Logos - Paideia seminar!

Gwenette Writer: @LS not about content about how it fits into THEIR consciousness how their "world" is changed from integration o fthe knowledge

Logos Sohl: Also if we all agreed with each other, there'd be no reflection at all. So there might be discursive skills that could be useful in stimulating social reflection

Oronoque Westland: when we confine reflection to the end we cannot gain immediate benefits...it benefits the next class, but not the one that may be in immediate need of modification

Margaret Michalski: If i were to wait until the end to do the reflect I would forge half of the important details

Olivia Hotshot: Kali, i think it is customary for educators to ask people at the end to relfect = so it is *easier* because of the current model. Reflection at specific activity points would be just as easy - it just takes more time to get thru lessons.

Margaret Michalski: I prefer to effect at various points throughout a projects

Stephan Mrigesh: There are way to many pleasure seekers abound to value your argument Gwenette! lol :)

Margaret Michalski: We are down to our last 4 min

Margaret Michalski: Please IM me any specific questions for the authors

Kali Pizzaro: so do we agree with schon that there is two types of reflection - on action - in action

Olivia Hotshot: Sorry i missed most of this today. Really seems like a great article Margaret.

Toddles Lightworker: oh, I'm always "reflecting" on the course as it runs , and adjsuting and navigating as we go for the different learners

Kali Pizzaro: indeed

Gwenette Writer: interesting from Purdue course: Definition: The central focus of constructivism is that the learner constructions knowledge by organizing information and giving meaning to information in learning environments. Learners must "test out" their own understanding of information against others' understanding of information; essentially, learning is adaptable and can be changed. In order to engage learners, facilitate understanding, and reflection in constructivism, instruction must "engage learners in authentic activities," include collaboration, "support learners in creating their own goals," and "encourage learners to reflect on what and how they are learning" (Reiser & Dempsey, 2007, pg. 42). Assessment includes evaluating authentic practices that can be observed.

Margaret Michalski: Now, are thee any other final thoughts

Rik Python: Realtime reflection and adjustment in evolutionary iterations -- that's what makes Agile methodology work over standard PMBOK

Stephan Mrigesh: Sorry* not value, I meant the opposition to rule will way out far greater than strict rule.

Margaret Michalski: no additional comments?

Logos Sohl: We test out our understandings by modifying actually behaviour in virtual worlds. Well, we can at least. In that sense it is reflection in action here more so than other contexts. Maybe

Olivia Hotshot: Next week we have the topic:

Visual and Multimedia Literacy

Gwenette Writer: reflects on how she should learn to type:)

Toddles Lightworker: @Rik seems true

Margaret Michalski: Olivia would you like to say a few things about he Reaction Grid meeting

Kali Pizzaro: go Olivai

Margaret Michalski: in the 1 minute

Gwenette Writer: ahh I just did a small display on 21st XCentury Literacy at Kennesaw here is slurl to building . . .

Olivia Hotshot: And don't forget to come see how Reaction Grid is... This Thursday at 11am pacific time. Get a notecard on the table. It sound be "interesting"

Oronoque Westland: @Olivia...will we use voice?

Olivia Hotshot: Great job Margaret. =)

Stephan Mrigesh: I do have to go, and have enjoyed this very much, thank-you all:)

Kali Pizzaro: thank you all for coming and a great discussion

Margaret Michalski: If Olivia is moderation it sure will be

cyber Placebo: @Olivia can't configure it on my machine

cyber Placebo: not heritage key

Olivia Hotshot: Oronoque we will probably not at the theater will span 2 or 3 sims to accommodate everyone

Kali Pizzaro: good job Margaret for your first moderation

Olivia Hotshot: Cyber, IM me?

Kali Pizzaro: clap clap

Margaret Michalski: no this is on the reaction grid

Ilene Pratt: Gwenette what's the SLURL to your site?

Zotarah Shepherd: Yay Margaret Well done.

Mimi Muircastle: cheers everyone, good job Margaret :)

Olivia Hotshot: =)