Topic: "What Do We Want?"
Needs Identified:
Iggy's Notes: Special thanks to Lolly Dovgal for their photos. Join our VWER group at Flickr and add your own pictures! I was away from this meeting, so I hope my colleagues will excuse a few smarty-pants quips by yours truly.
AJ Brooks: Hi everyone, and welcome to the Virtual Worlds Education Roundtable meeting.
AJ Brooks: Our meetings are made possible by the Office of Information Technology at Montclair State University. We meet here each week at 2:30pm SLT for an hour.
AJ Brooks: For those sitting up in the amphitheater seating, please come down and join us around the roundtable. There is always an empty seat on side closest to the ramp.
AJ Brooks: The Virtual Worlds Education Roundtable is a forum to educate and inform the community about issues that are important and relevant to education.
AJ Brooks: The views and opinions of any of our special guests or visitors do not necessarily represent those who volunteer or organize these meetings,
AJ Brooks: or of the College of Humanities and Social Sciences, Office of Information Technology , or Montclair State University.
AJ Brooks: Today's meeting topic is "What do we want?" Here is a chance to generate a list of things educators in SL believe they want or need in order to do what we need to do.
AJ Brooks: This is a public meeting, so we do keep a transcript of what is said in local chat. For a copy of transcripts, please visit http://www.vwer.org
AJ Brooks: If you've not seen the transcripts, you should check them out - they are a great information asset.
AJ Brooks: The Virtual Worlds Education Roundtable meeting happens each week and we are looking to develop a community of educators from around the world with a variety of thoughts, needs, and ideas.
AJ Brooks: Please join the Virtual Worlds Education Roundtable group here in SL. You can also find us on Facebook, LinkedIn, Flicker, and KoinUp, as well as on Twitter as VWER.
AJ Brooks: Finally, if you have Mystitool on, or other similar tool, please put it to sleep or detach it for now. :-) It tends to lag things.
AJ Brooks: As a hint, it is better to have "local chat" open for these meetings, it will help you follow along better.
AJ Brooks: You can find local chat by clicking COMMUNICATE in the bottom navigation bar and you'll find LOCAL CHAT as one of the tabs at the bottom of the window.
AJ Brooks: Just one more reminder, we ask that everyone sitting in the theater seating join us around the roundtable. There is always an empty seat on side closest to the ramp.
AJ Brooks: Why don't we start off the way we always do, but introducing ourselves. No need to wait, go ahead and type into local chat now - who you are, what you do, and your educational affiliation.
AJ Brooks: My name is AJ Kelton and I am the Director, Emerging Instructional Technology for the College of Humanities and Social Sciences at Montclair State University in Northern New Jersey
Grinn Pidgeon: Dr. Barbara Pittman, Cuyahoga Community College, Cleveland, Ohio. Faculty Development/Instructional technology/English teacher
Kali Pizzaro: Evelyn MCElhinney Glasgow Caledonian University
Kathryn Pleides: Kathryn Pleides, high school librarian in upstate New York
Margaret Michalski: Margaret Czart, Research Information Specialist at the University of Illinois at Chicago
Rachelle Munro: Rochell McWhorter, Texas A&M University
Lolly Dovgal: Laura Sederberg. Manager of the Technology & Learning Program at CSU, Chico, CA
Stephan Mrigesh: My name is Simply Stephan, founder of the SL College of Internet Virtual Life
ChrisG Techsan: Chris GIbson, Texas State Technical College (vTSTC)
Olivia Hotshot: Ann Steckel, California State Univ Chico, techie, educator, and VWERsupporter
Kathryn Pleides: Kathryn Frech IRL
Kristen Darbyshire: Kristen Darbyshire, rl and sl, middle school art teacher and picture book author and illustrator
toBe Destiny: Paul Prueitt, Norwich University
hobbs Constantine: Heather Dodds, Math and Science Program Community Facilitator, Western Governors University
Jarrad Voom: Willie Jackson - Pierce college Lakewood Washington
Zotarah Shepherd: I am a MA in Education (technology and psychology) student at Sonoma State University in northern California working on a curriculum project: Teaching and Learning Life-Skills in Second Life. Part of that is an Immersive Interactive Educational build about Life-skills on an educational sim called Ralanora. I also have a build for Multiple Intelligences.
Csteph Submariner: Chris Stephens - sim designer Oxford uni
AJ Brooks: who else?
AJ Brooks: btw - there are seats closest to the ramp
Kali Pizzaro: Hey Csteph and tobe up late like m?
JanythKU Techsan: Janyth Ussery, Texas State Technical College (vTSTC)
Jagga Meredith: B. Mus A. , B. Ed. UNIX SA, teach SL, former Jr. high teacher
AJ Brooks: anyone else?
AJ Brooks: going once
ericcgcc Yootz: eric greene adjunct fac cc oregon
Callista Silvansky: Kimmy Hescock, visual information designer, oregon state university
Bungy Bingyi: David Smith, Dir of Tech at Oakland School for the Arts
AJ Brooks: going twice
JeanClaude Vollmar: Oh yeah. Jeff Le Blanc from the University of Northwestern Ohio. I'm the VP for IT there.
Jarrad Voom: where is the CC of Oregon?
Aurora Kitaj: Sophie Henderson, Public Information Manager LB Hackney
ericcgcc Yootz: colubia GORGE COM COLLE G IN THE dALLES AND hOD rIVER
Dusty Artaud: Randi Kopp, Kidsbridge Tolerance Museum, TCNJ, NJ
Csteph Submariner: Hackney London?
Aurora Kitaj: yep
AJ Brooks: going three times - sold to the dragon familiar
ericcgcc Yootz: sorry caps :(
Csteph Submariner waves to fellow brit
AJ Brooks: ok - so lets get right into it
AJ Brooks: here's how I thought we'd proceed
AJ Brooks: lets take a few minutes to come up with categories
Kali Pizzaro: drum roll
AJ Brooks: then we can make suggestions in those categories
AJ Brooks: i'll start - a major category - user interface
Kali Pizzaro: 32 on the sim for the transcript
AJ Brooks: what other categories
Olivia Hotshot: support
toBe Destiny: knowledge management tools?
hobbs Constantine: money
AJ Brooks: ok - support
Jagga Meredith: underlying infrastructure
Kathryn Pleides: professional networking
Stephan Mrigesh: Objectives
toBe Destiny: like Google wave of twitter or ontology
ericcgcc Yootz: pedia of education sites with newbie educators
AJ Brooks: hang on
Kathryn Pleides: professional development
Lolly Dovgal: recognition of value at the university!
Graham Mills: Search & repository
AJ Brooks: we want meta categories
AJ Brooks: then individual items can fit into those
toBe Destiny: knowledge management tools?
JeanClaude Vollmar: Organizational ability. Like groups, classes, etc.
AJ Brooks: so knowledge management tools becomes just tools
Csteph Submariner: media support
hobbs Constantine: (well said Lolly)
AJ Brooks: media support - that can come under support
toBe Destiny: ok
toBe Destiny: tools
Lolly Dovgal: Hobbs, thanks.
AJ Brooks: lol
AJ Brooks: recognition can be another category
Olivia Hotshot: Interoperations with other virtual worlds
AJ Brooks: of the U and of us
toBe Destiny: interoperability
toBe Destiny: yes
AJ Brooks: what would be a major category for interoperability
Lolly Dovgal: How about Pedagogical style searchable activities or assignments
toBe Destiny: grip tp
toBe Destiny: ?
Zotarah Shepherd: Documented research about the effectiveness of VWs for education.
toBe Destiny: file interoperability to Open sim
toBe Destiny: script interoperability
AJ Brooks: ok - so this is what I have so far - major categories
AJ Brooks: user interface
AJ Brooks: support
AJ Brooks: tools
AJ Brooks: recognition
Stephan Mrigesh: yes, full credit courses, paid admission's, and staff.
AJ Brooks: and something about interoperability - but we need a broader meta cataogoiry to fit that in
Jagga Meredith: standardization?
AJ Brooks: standards!
Margaret Michalski: community
AJ Brooks: excellent
AJ Brooks: community
AJ Brooks: ok
AJ Brooks: so - lets do this
AJ Brooks: we'll go one meta category at a time and come up with ideas in that catagory only
AJ Brooks: this will make it easier for us to make this into a list for LL
AJ Brooks: so - lets start with User Interface
AJ Brooks: as educators - what do we need regarding the user interface
hobbs Constantine: Wha? this list is going to LL? uh...I gotta go (wink)
Kali Pizzaro: easier scripting
Olivia Hotshot: ability to customize what students and faculty see
AJ Brooks: easier scripting - how do you mean?
AJ Brooks: also - olivia - explain
Csteph Submariner: perhaps hiding all the complicated stuff away from the newbie
Zotarah Shepherd: The PhD Research group in SL is not active according to the owner of it.
Jagga Meredith: LL says they're giving us C## in the future
Kali Pizzaro: so i can create something quicker
AJ Brooks: Zotarah - what does that have to do with User Interface
Zotarah Shepherd: Sorry lag
Kali Pizzaro: maybe more scripts available to adapt
JanythKU Techsan: accessibility for all students
Olivia Hotshot: wel, right now all tools from advanced to simple are there - wpul dbe nice to have a sleeker version with only some of the tools for new people or students
AJ Brooks: kali - there are many tools that do that
ericcgcc Yootz: low power computer access/cell phone access
AJ Brooks: cell phone access
ChrisG Techsan: How about easier scripting in relation to interfacing....I.e. drop down box interfaces instead of notecards.
AJ Brooks: that also falls under standards - so that fits into both
Jagga Meredith: web access, for those stuck behind firewalls
JeanClaude Vollmar: I would LOVE a joystick kind of interface like Xbox and the like
Kali Pizzaro: sure but not always easy to find
AJ Brooks: so having script ease built into the interface
AJ Brooks: I wonder how much of this is going to be address in 2.0
AJ Brooks: has anyone seen it - anyone played with Snowglobe?
Olivia Hotshot: I have
ChrisG Techsan: Have been discussing for some time but not included in next release
Callista Silvansky: there already is cell access, at least on the iphone (Touch Life)
JanythKU Techsan: Look up SpaceNavigator, JeanClaude. It works great
Shenlei Flasheart: yes to snowglobe, but I declined a linden NDA to play with viewer 2.0.
Olivia Hotshot: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Snowglobe
Csteph Submariner: decent 3d client cellphone acess would be cool
Csteph Submariner: I use TouchLife, but it's still not quite there
Kali Pizzaro: yeah mobile access would be good
AJ Brooks: cstaph - thats more about the cell phones, really - at this point. at least the ones here in the US.
Shenlei Flasheart: Snowglobe isn't up to the workloads I present to a viewer.
Callista Silvansky: a lot better than its predecessors though
JanythKU Techsan: Touch Life on the iPhone works better than most previous apps. I can get it to work down to 2 bars
ChrisG Techsan: Also more secure access...possibly tunneling support or at least ssl.
Csteph Submariner: iPhone should be up to the basic rendering I'd think
Csteph Submariner: I even recall seeing working demos
Csteph Submariner: from LL I believe
AJ Brooks: we'll see tomorrow if a tablet is coming and how it will work with SL or other VWs
Kali Pizzaro: yeah woop woop ..... maybe
Olivia Hotshot: i think what we want is an interface that is not as overwhelming as it is to new residents. It would be nice to have one that supported a shorter learning curve.
Rachelle Munro: cool, AJ
Csteph Submariner: multi-touch could be a godsend for builders
Kali Pizzaro: yes Olivia
Lolly Dovgal: Amen to than, Olivia
AJ Brooks: excellent
Callista Silvansky: agreed, Olivia
AJ Brooks: ok - anything else for user interface before moving on to support
Csteph Submariner: nods Olivia
Olivia Hotshot bows graciously
Sheila Yoshikawa: don't know if this is interface, but I'd like it to be a browser that didn't have to be specially installed, if people could use a standard browser
Dusty Artaud: assistive technologies?
AJ Brooks: explain dusty
Dusty Artaud: for disabled, deaf, blind
Csteph Submariner: you can specify to use your normal browser for links
JeanClaude Vollmar: That's a good one Sheila
Dusty Artaud: text to chat etc
Sheila Yoshikawa: at least get some access, if simplified, for computers where you didn't have permission to download teh SL browser
Graham Mills: I think Sheila means zero-install
Zotarah Shepherd: Yes Dusty that would help Virtual Abilities a lot
AJ Brooks: ok
Csteph Submariner: Ah, yes I see, sorry
Sheila Yoshikawa: as at my uni currently for example, where you can't do it off a data stick either
AJ Brooks: ok - so how about support
AJ Brooks: what type of support could we educators use?
Csteph Submariner: some evidence of it?
AJ Brooks: lol
Zotarah Shepherd: hehe
Kali Pizzaro: ha
Sheila Yoshikawa: yep that would be a start
AJ Brooks: what would you like, csteph
Csteph Submariner: failing that...money works for me
AJ Brooks: what would constitute evidence
Lolly Dovgal: Subject matter sharing of lessons and activities for courses.
Jagga Meredith: support person dedicated to education issues
Jagga Meredith: ie. our own Linden
AJ Brooks: we have three
Lolly Dovgal: Helping faculty, to help one another.
Margaret Michalski: scripting in terms of things for surveys. There is script available but adjusting it is not always easy.
AJ Brooks: we have three
Zotarah Shepherd: Getting paid at all for what we do here would be nice.
Sheila Yoshikawa: swifter help with billing issues?
AJ Brooks: Pathfinder, Claudia, and George
Jagga Meredith: kewl
AJ Brooks: Getting paid - what do you mean, Zotarah?
Lolly Dovgal: I have a .2 helper, only.
Csteph Submariner: some closer engagement between those at LL supposedly involved in education uses and those of us at the actual coalface
Stephan Mrigesh: A human response would be nice IMO, instead of the form letter reply method now.
Graham Mills: Three doesn't go far
Kali Pizzaro: yes Csteph
Olivia Hotshot: is there going to be another Linden Educator Faire?
AJ Brooks: true - but three is more than some of the other communities have
Zotarah Shepherd: I do mostly classes and workshops in SL for free. And when I offered one for my university not enough people showed up and they don't want to give it another try.
Lolly Dovgal: Yeah, Olivia is our ONE, and she is spread sooooo thin.
Csteph Submariner: when my sim opened in Nov there were about 5 Lindens through in the first weekend, but trying to engage them in any discussion was like trying to pull teeth
toBe Destiny: i would like to see a dedication education virtual world, by LL or not, where identity management might be supported. This would be useful in conducting class.
Margaret Michalski: @AJ we have Lindens for help but they have office hours once a week and always many people there
toBe Destiny: dedicated
Margaret Michalski: there
Jagga Meredith attends the Tuesday bugfix office hours
Zotarah Shepherd: The LL concierge is good at answering my questions when I have them
Kristen Darbyshire: i would really love being to see teaching here in action, especially classes that are not strictly how-to-do-this-in-sl but use sl well
Graham Mills: I think it's up to us to help ourselves to a great extent -- the Lindens don't really determine what goes on inworld, nor want to imo
AJ Brooks: all three lindens respond to IMs when they can
Olivia Hotshot: I would like to see support of education that was as strong as it is for business, and conducted in a way that worked with educators' constraints - semesters, huge enrollments, age restrictions, group privileges, group enrollment, etc.
Lolly Dovgal: Well said!
Zotarah Shepherd: Yes Olivia!
AJ Brooks: Kristen, there are MANY MANY classes that go on, that are not how-tos. But many people, instructors, myself included - don't want outsiders coming in and disrutping the class
toBe Destiny: yes Oliva
Olivia Hotshot: Mayber it is time for the Lindens to hire a 4th person . the Linden to educator ratio is really bizarre at this point.
AJ Brooks: I wouldn't let a group of people come visit my non-virtual world class - ti would be disruptive to my pedagogy
Csteph Submariner: I appreciate that they are busy etc, and I have had some very friendly exchanges, but where is the Lindendev grant or the Linden best practice guide or...
Zotarah Shepherd: The age barrier being removed would be vital to education in SL.
toBe Destiny: but I wonder if there is a separate business case for SL education infrastructure
Kali Pizzaro: Yes AJ
Kristen Darbyshire: yes I can see how interruptions are a problem
Stephan Mrigesh: Most definitely need better policing of underage users on the adult grid, I agree Olivia.
toBe Destiny: for example, i feel that a educational function HAS to be seperated from the SL grid
AJ Brooks: I don't want underage users on the grid - to be honest
hobbs Constantine: some observations come with the territory of education
AJ Brooks: there needs to be a grid where both exist - but not this one
Kali Pizzaro: @Aj Agreed
AJ Brooks: and not us on that one - but that is an ENTIRELY different meeting
Zotarah Shepherd: Reaction Grid is still very limited too.
Olivia Hotshot doubles AJ's comment
toBe Destiny: and also we need a Virtual World that does not have an age barrier
Csteph Submariner: agreed toBe
AJ Brooks: ok - so what tools could we use?
AJ Brooks: specific tools
AJ Brooks: like olivia was talking about a moment ago
AJ Brooks: ldap ability!
Olivia Hotshot: yes AJ
Olivia Hotshot: absolutely
AJ Brooks: being able to preload groups
Olivia Hotshot: integration into ALL LMS
Kali Pizzaro: Yes
Sheila Yoshikawa: yes!
AJ Brooks: well - that would be wonderful , but that is not a LL thing it is an LMS thing
Csteph Submariner: better pre-caching possibilities for media content perhaps?
toBe Destiny: LMS?
Olivia Hotshot: if we could get a simple interface to powerlink into LMS we would be golden here.
AJ Brooks: better media content, period!
Olivia Hotshot: here - chico
AJ Brooks: why can't I show a youtube easily here
Aurora Kitaj: sorry if I'm stating the obvious but don't educators have joint access to the teen grid and adult grid on occasion
AJ Brooks: easily, I said
Olivia Hotshot: learning management system
JeanClaude Vollmar: But to help us out, they could allow us to import a name list that would auto invite all avatars
AJ Brooks: Aurora - absolutely not!
Aurora Kitaj: why not?
Zotarah Shepherd: The TG accounts are separate
AJ Brooks: once an approved avatart goes to the teen grid, it never comes back - and it has to be FBI cleared
Aurora Kitaj: oh, wasn't aware of that
Birdie Newcomb: it might be the same person, but not the same avatar
Kali Pizzaro: Is that a child protection thing
Aurora Kitaj: understood
AJ Brooks: why not? lol - because thats the way it was set up - to protect the minors
Zotarah Shepherd: Very limited on the TG and hard to get supplies
AJ Brooks: very and very, Z
Olivia Hotshot: I want integration into Flickr - so when you uploaded it to flickr, the SLURL could be mapped just like in the real world. would like a 4th choice - upload to Flickr as well as postcard, inventory, and hard disk
Stephan Mrigesh: No AJ, it's to protect the adults lol;)
Birdie Newcomb: more limited for the adults than the teens
AJ Brooks: the teen grid is a waste, in my opinion
Aurora Kitaj: listens
Lolly Dovgal: Olivia, sounds sweet.
Birdie Newcomb: it's tiny in comparison
AJ Brooks: great for the teens - not great for us to be able to interact with them
Birdie Newcomb: tiny
Aurora Kitaj: k
Margaret Michalski: I would like to know more on simultaneous events like they do with conferences
toBe Destiny: this think about age is because SL is designed for purposes other than education
toBe Destiny: and this is why there has to be a separate grid
toBe Destiny: where identity management exists
Zotarah Shepherd: 18 year olds cannot finish classes on the TG and 17 year olds cannot take college classes in SL.
Olivia Hotshot: I want integration with textbook companies - pre-made content to imported - textures, structures, sounds, etc ready made to import in to virtual worlds
Csteph Submariner: the web faced the same sorts of questions, except perhaps not many people asked them at the time
Sheila Yoshikawa: more/easier import/export tools to load to other applications like LMS and flickr and blogs (as a summary?)
AJ Brooks: without interoperability - a separate grid is a walled garden
AJ Brooks: if there were standards, I'd be all for an education grid
Zotarah Shepherd: There are already over 1000 teens on the main grid here
Csteph Submariner: we need that same sort of rapprochement in here
ericcgcc Yootz: how about an ed grid for all ages - no sex, no violence
JanythKU Techsan: teens are a truly double-edged sword. The rich content is on the main grid but there is the need for protection from predators
toBe Destiny: yes AJ, and this interoperability issues is the means to keep a educational grid impossible...
Aurora Kitaj: there is certainly an argument to be made that sl offers an opportutnity to draw in ppl via social aspect / gaming and arming them with the tools for learning
Olivia Hotshot: I thought we were talking about tools?
Lolly Dovgal: Olivia, another good idea. Are publishers involved in SL?
toBe Destiny: unless Open Sim solves these interoperability issues
Csteph Submariner: plus ID verification would goa long way to keeping out the freaks...
Sheila Yoshikawa: which involves the other app. producers, but could be easier from LL end or they could take up and improve some of the tools that have been developed (for making these things easier)
Zotarah Shepherd: The European teens have trouble proving age verification to LL so they have no other place to go so they lie about their age
Olivia Hotshot: Yes, Lolly - but only in basic lessons - no pre-made content
Jarrad Voom: Olivia another good idea
Stephan Mrigesh: Then you will need a solid verification process, and the one that is in place now is not used because many users do not want to give out their identities.
toBe Destiny: ID verification and management is a required element in rl education
Kali Pizzaro: Yes Aj then the only purpose would be education and we may get rid of some of the fears about students seeing something WE think they should not
Zotarah Shepherd: Reaction Grid is for all ages so many educators are going there.
AJ Brooks: ok - Olivia bullwhipped me to stop me and ToBe from getting off on one of our tangents. LOL - back to tools
Stephan Mrigesh: *or businesses do not use them for fear of losing business.
toBe Destiny: students and adults are both distracted by stuff in sl
JanythKU Techsan: RG still has voice limitations though
Zotarah Shepherd: hehe yes
Olivia Hotshot tightens the whip around AJ and laughs sinisterly [Iggy's note: I miss all the best meetings, dammit!]
AJ Brooks: lol
toBe Destiny: again, the purpose of SL is not designed with education in mind
Csteph Submariner: I like what I have seen of reaction grid, but, unless the business goes there I fear it is doomed
AJ Brooks: better be careful, Eloise Pasteur will be here if you get to BDSM
Zotarah Shepherd: RG has a lot of limitations but will improve just as SL did
Kali Pizzaro: haha
AJ Brooks: there is no plan for an economy of its own in RG
Stephan Mrigesh: Education is big Business too?
AJ Brooks: paypal - yes, own economy no - not from what I've heard
AJ Brooks: WE'll be visiting the Reaction Grid on the 8th of February - contact Olivia Hotshot for details
Sheila Yoshikawa: are we still on tools?
Olivia Hotshot: <-- me yes - knows RG
Graham Mills: Eloisde has been very supportive of educational development in SL
Olivia Hotshot: Yes we are still on tools.
Csteph Submariner: so, if they use paypal can they still do micro-transaction stuff?
Zotarah Shepherd: Yes Csteph RG needs commerce or a way to transfer things on a website to RG like we have with Xstreet.
AJ Brooks: yes - she has - VERY supportive
toBe Destiny: who is Eloise?
Csteph Submariner: yes, big up Eloise for the advice she gave me
Kali Pizzaro: half hour to go
Graham Mills: Eloise Pasteur
Birdie Newcomb: Is RG a grid that can handle SL items imported?
toBe Destiny: who is she
Dusty Artaud: AJ many tools for conferences and teaching being used in SL - most resident-developed, not LL. We need info hub for these tools
Kali Pizzaro: look her up [Iggy's Note: Ask Pappy Enoch; he's still sore and will never forget the rubber chicken or fire extinguisher--it was true love]
Birdie Newcomb: Eloise, inventive educator
Zotarah Shepherd: Elosie was one of my best teachers about immersive building in SL.
toBe Destiny: reaction grid
AJ Brooks: a long time SLer who does a great deal of work for EDU, especially with scripting - she also works closely with Literature Alive!
Birdie Newcomb: she's created some tools
toBe Destiny: ?
JeanClaude Vollmar: That's a great idea Dusty.
Birdie Newcomb: and wonderful sites
Jarrad Voom: yes we need an info hub for those tools
AJ Brooks: yes - tools are too spread out
Olivia Hotshot: I want a tool that allows me to manage the video stream and audio stream from a panel to do the WHOLE property
Graham Mills: Search and repository
AJ Brooks: I think the Center of Learning in a Virtual Environment is going to be working on that
Azwaldo Villota: http://educationaldesigns.eloisepasteur.net/
AJ Brooks: as part of a Merlot project
Lolly Dovgal: Hmmmm
toBe Destiny: the deepest problem is the age barrier and how this is linked to some type of educational mission for a grid
Zotarah Shepherd: Isn't Salamander still tagging tools for education in SL any more?
Csteph Submariner: a nice working tool for social LM sharing would be good
Olivia Hotshot: what is that AJ?
Graham Mills: Can't leave it to one project
Olivia Hotshot: CLIVE?
Margaret Michalski: agreed with Olivia on the video
AJ Brooks: well - the age barrier is not such a big deal for higher ed, only for freshman, and only occasionally
Graham Mills: Needs to be community engagement
toBe Destiny: but I can see that we are not going to solve that problem today
AJ Brooks: CLiVE = Center of Learning in a Virtual Environment
Olivia Hotshot: Yes, we are working on a HUD for CLIVE - that is what my part is going to be - to expand the MERLOT HUD
Stephan Mrigesh: How about a sort of Word Perfect Program, or PowerPoint Integrated Software System, that student's could hand in a professional looking exam, rather than a bunch of notecards?
toBe Destiny: the age barrier is a problem for higher ed
toBe Destiny: because
toBe Destiny: the whole system functions together
Kali Pizzaro: easier upload of pictures
Kali Pizzaro: that you do not need to change format
AJ Brooks: anything else for tools?
Zotarah Shepherd: I would like to take teens on tours of science, literature and other builds in SL in such a way that they could interact with it.
toBe Destiny: the problem is not the age barrier it is the distractions of over commerical thinking and other deviate behaviors
toBe Destiny: the age barrier is just a sign
Birdie Newcomb: Sloodle works well for gathering projects, building projects
Zotarah Shepherd: There are not duplicates of those things on RG.. not yet.
Olivia Hotshot: I want a vehicle into which i can place 20 avatars to transport around SL as a whole - for field trips
AJ Brooks: FOLKS IN THE AMPHITHEATER SEATS - come join us around the roundtable!
ericcgcc Yootz: how about a chaperon system for teens in adult sl?
AJ Brooks: its called AV FOLLOW and its part of MystiTool
Birdie Newcomb: from sim to sim?
Kali Pizzaro: yeah
Zotarah Shepherd: I think there is one of those Olivia but not sure if it works in TPs
Kali Pizzaro: but she wants the vehicle
Olivia Hotshot: AJ, i know your chair system - i want a vehicle - like a bus or a plabe
Olivia Hotshot: plane*
AJ Brooks: I want a plabe!!!!!!
Birdie Newcomb: flying carpet
Olivia Hotshot: and i want to be able to tp all of them
Olivia Hotshot: at the same time
AJ Brooks: 35 on the sim, for the transcript
Csteph Submariner: it is possible to arrange teen group visits to given sims I believe
Olivia Hotshot: hehehe
Csteph Submariner: I know some in Bristol did it
Bungy Bingyi: sorry gtg all
Birdie Newcomb: Really?
AJ Brooks: ok - since we touched on that already - how about standards
toBe Destiny: ... the point is ... why try to use something for education what it is NOT designed with education in mind
toBe Destiny: sl is designed for other purposes
Stephan Mrigesh: If she wants the Van, get her the Van, but do not be surprised if some of the kids hop off, and explore on their own;)
toBe Destiny: we are always trying to do something with something that will not work
AJ Brooks: standards
AJ Brooks: I want intergridding
Graham Mills: I believe some people have had a little success or we would not be here
Zotarah Shepherd: LL will not let any teens come over to the MG last I checked
Lolly Dovgal: So should we givee up on SL, toBe?
Olivia Hotshot: Standards - a common rubric for educators to use to determine the worth of sims to be used in lessons.
Csteph Submariner: I thought the point of SL qwas that it wasn't designed with anything in particular in mind..
Birdie Newcomb: I was trying to devise a 3D online campus when I discovered Seconde Life -- they'd already done it
AJ Brooks: why would LL come up with that, Olivia?
Margaret Michalski: I second intergridding
Jagga Meredith: standards - open source SL (and the server)
toBe Destiny: i think that we should understand that we are at a parting point, that we must part form SL and move to a new sim that is dedicated to education
toBe Destiny: K - old age
AJ Brooks: yes - csteph - SL is a platform
toBe Destiny: yes Jagga
Lolly Dovgal: How many agree with toBe?
AJ Brooks: I'm not leaving the content and community behind - especially when the age thing you keep talking about really doesn't impact me
Zotarah Shepherd: There will be gridhopping at some point but the technology to do that with all inventory etc is not there yet.
toBe Destiny: we can extract the standards that we can and leave the rest behind
Birdie Newcomb: I haven't seen the grid to go to yet
Olivia Hotshot: Because they want to produce a better product AJ. They have already started building classes to raise the quality of what is here. Why not help educators decide how to judge what is good and what is not.
toBe Destiny: to create a new system
Csteph Submariner: I can't see LL keeping the two grids separate much longer tbh
Csteph Submariner: they need to sort out the verification stuff
AJ Brooks: Olivia - LL is not in the business of doing that
AJ Brooks: for any of its communities
AJ Brooks: they don't do it for business
AJ Brooks: they don't do it for role play
AJ Brooks: and they don't do it for us
toBe Destiny: (we are in the wrong kind of virtual world)
AJ Brooks: thats up to us to do
Graham Mills: I don't come to many of these meetings but even so they seem v repetitive
Olivia Hotshot: AJ, then that is why we need to continue to voice what we want.
AJ Brooks: ToBE - you keep saying that, - but then why are you here?
Zotarah Shepherd: If teens want to be on the MG AJ they will create accounts here.
Birdie Newcomb: they do
Csteph Submariner: don't agree toBe, we're in the de facto standard VW at the moment..
AJ Brooks: olivia - the industry itself can't even come up with a common rubric or standard, you want LL to do it?
Stephan Mrigesh: I believe the young are far more aware of what goes on in adult land then you are willing to admit, and keeping them from it , makes it that much more desirable, so maybe some pre-schooling before arrival here?
Zotarah Shepherd: SL is what RG is aspiring to technologically
Lolly Dovgal: I like that we all have a voice, and that we use it here! in VWER meetings.
toBe Destiny: i can talk about that AJ, it should be clear that SL has brought Virtual worlds to a certain point, but that now we MUST understand as educators that this is not the best that can be.... and the business model is the core problem
AJ Brooks: You ask Maggie Marat about kids on the grid - they don't want to come here for the lewd content - they can find MUCH better on the web
Birdie Newcomb: I've heard they used to do that prepping, but no longer
Olivia Hotshot: Zotarah, did you read that somewhere ?
Birdie Newcomb: Used to be going away parties
Jagga Meredith: RG doesn't need all the bells and whistles of SL. it doesn't need bouncing boobies
Birdie Newcomb: Now it's bye bye
Kali Pizzaro: we keep going on about teens but many folk on Bebo, Fb etc are not the age they are meant to be
Kali Pizzaro: we cannot encourage it but
Olivia Hotshot: Maggie says they want to come here for the commerce. They want to shop
Zotarah Shepherd: I heard that in a meeting
AJ Brooks: they want the content and the community
AJ Brooks: yes
Birdie Newcomb: and design and sell
AJ Brooks: yes
AJ Brooks: and see all the cool places we have
AJ Brooks: cool
toBe Destiny: (and learning how to shop is something we really need to support... smiles... point made)
Olivia Hotshot: They have not told me that Zo.
AJ Brooks: so standards cover those under 18, and integration with them
Csteph Submariner: exactly, I can see LL wanting to avoid putting up that particular stalking horse for the press, but I don't think there's any 'real' issue tbh
Shenlei Flasheart: I don't think Reaction grid aspires to be SL.
Kali Pizzaro: if you are in fashion or retail shopping and selling can be used for eduacation
Shenlei Flasheart: Any more than any of the OpenSim-based worlds aspire to it. For many very solid tech reasons.
AJ Brooks: so - what else do we want FROM LINDEN LAB (to try to keep it focused)
Logos Sohl: I personally think that there are many more educators operating in sl than we see at these meetings. And they dont necessarily understand enough of the platform to know what's possible. The builders and developers dont know enough about the theory of pedagogy to have their (often very good) designs be informed by learning models, and theories of learning. There is still a gulf between these two kinds of essential knowledge.
Zotarah Shepherd: Only to have better technology. Right now it is like SL was 3 years ago
AJ Brooks: well said logos
Kali Pizzaro: Good Point Logos
Csteph Submariner: from LL some acknowledgement that what we're doing has value
Logos Sohl: If we can bridge it, it wont matter what platform we use...
toBe Destiny: virtual worlds could be used to support higher efficiencies in governance (e-Gov) as well as education and health care, but the orientation of SL has not been developed with this in mind)
JanythKU Techsan: I don't think there should be a one-size fits all approach to VW. Additionally, having competition is not a bad thing to keep the VW developers improving
Zotarah Shepherd: We need to publicize what we are doing in education in VWs so parents know about it
Csteph Submariner: true
toBe Destiny: Logos, I see your point
Stephan Mrigesh: I doubt there are as many predator's here than you would find in the phiysical world anyhow, so possibly some basic safety training would work if parents/teachers were courageous enough to talk about it.
Lolly Dovgal: Yes, Zo.
Zotarah Shepherd: Good point Janyth
AJ Brooks: so - what do we want LL to do, what do we want from them?
Csteph Submariner: agreed Stephan
toBe Destiny: agrees with Jany
Birdie Newcomb: attention paid
AJ Brooks: in what form, birdie
toBe Destiny: LL cannot give the kind of system educators need
toBe Destiny: period
Dusty Artaud: Think what Logos said was key - how can LL help us bridge gulf btw the educators and the builders/developers?
Olivia Hotshot: I want LL to be better listeners as well as supporters.
Csteph Submariner: disagree toBe
JanythKU Techsan: it does every day here, tobe
Azwaldo Villota: Logos Sohl: "...still a gulf between these two" - - How would you address this, what might you suggest?
Zotarah Shepherd: What do you suggest toBe?
Logos Sohl: I think a system is needed. I think the community has to solve this one
Callista Silvansky: then what do you suggest toBe?
AJ Brooks: tobe - that can't be the answer to everything - ti defeats the purpose of having the conversation at all
Birdie Newcomb: If we want a specific change, we need to lobby for it.
Birdie Newcomb: Are we ever going to be that organized?
Logos Sohl: Yes
Csteph Submariner: it's starting
Stephan Mrigesh: I believe the system is here toBe, but there is too much grumbling, and no work getting done to make it work.
Logos Sohl: Professionalization of building
Logos Sohl: is happening
Graham Mills: Personally I think we should set community targets for ourselves and work round the Lindens
toBe Destiny: i suggest that federal funding be set aside to create a complete system using open source and with the purposes of e-governance education and health in mind
Logos Sohl: Classes becoming more advanced more formalized
toBe Destiny: this is what I have proposed to the White House
toBe Destiny: 100<
Zotarah Shepherd: Students should be the builders and we just show them examples.
AJ Brooks: thats very nice tobe, but its not happening - in fact, there are cuts on the way
toBe Destiny: 100M
Logos Sohl: Students do bridge the gap
Kali Pizzaro: my students are not interested in building Zo
Logos Sohl: First hand experience of education
Logos Sohl: Capable of grappling with tech
Csteph Submariner: toBe I'm sure they'll be very worthy, very safe, very well goverened and largly empty...
JanythKU Techsan: SL is a tool..it is the is how we can develop and create to engage learners that is the value...at least for me
AJ Brooks: and besides - that is not something LL can do for us - an that is the topic of todays meeting
Logos Sohl: Because they have time that we dont
Zotarah Shepherd: It would be hard to have a commerce for that toBe
toBe Destiny: there is a case to be made that is political
Csteph Submariner: ah now, there you have something
AJ Brooks: what do we educators want from Linden Lab
Sheila Yoshikawa: standards - does metadata come under that? metadata about objects (making it easier to tag them usefully, for search)
toBe Destiny: that the SL, reaction grid etc all are not designed and supported to serve a public sector like education
AJ Brooks: great point sheila
Zotarah Shepherd: Oh Kali I thought you liked constructionist pedagogy.
Callista Silvansky: AJ has a point: toBe, your argument is for another time/place
Csteph Submariner: for governments in the W to take this seriously would be good
Sheila Yoshikawa: the current object menu could do more, i think
Olivia Hotshot: toBe, youre not right on some of your "facts"
Callista Silvansky: it has nothing to do with what we can get Linden Labs to do for us NOW
toBe Destiny: like?
JanythKU Techsan: the basic think I want from LL is a platform that is stable
Olivia Hotshot: " reaction grid etc all are not designed and supported to serve a public sector like education"
AJ Brooks: like - its not a meeting to talk about what the government should be doing - we're talking about what we want LL to do for us
Logos Sohl: why dont we all write our top 3 wishlist items from ll
toBe Destiny: that SL has too much commercialism and sex
toBe Destiny: ?
Olivia Hotshot: they are entirely dedicated to education and business.
toBe Destiny: ah
Kali Pizzaro: we need to continue to teach, evaluate and publicise our great work and this will spread the message, that there is worth exploring VWs. The research will tell us what needs to be improved.
Csteph Submariner: true
JanythKU Techsan: if it is not reliable, we have a hard time using it
toBe Destiny: reaction grid needs far more funding
toBe Destiny: i should have said
toBe Destiny: sorry
Zotarah Shepherd: All I see on RG are schools and teachers
Olivia Hotshot: np
Csteph Submariner: I'd be happier with more engagement
JanythKU Techsan: that is at the basic level
AJ Brooks: WHAT DO WE WANT LINDEN LAB TO DO FOR US - lets keep on topic please
Csteph Submariner: where is the Linden here tonight?
Olivia Hotshot: I want them to give educators better pricing deals (hey i am dreaming).
Kristen Darbyshire: ooo good one
AJ Brooks: ok - what else?
Kristen Darbyshire: lol
Callista Silvansky: haha
Zotarah Shepherd: Pathfinder and Claudia used to come to these meetings
Kali Pizzaro: better price for behind firewall
Csteph Submariner: grants!
AJ Brooks: grants - good one
AJ Brooks: what else
Shenlei Flasheart: Olivia: they already do - it's nonprofit pricing. But it is a major pain to jump through their hoops to receive it.
toBe Destiny: linden labs cannot do what needs to be done unless they develop a behind the firewall server that supports education as a separate grid
Csteph Submariner: best practice guides
toBe Destiny: in my opinion
ericcgcc Yootz: an ed grid separate from teen and adult
Graham Mills: The Lindens have some special in-house closed meetings this week
AJ Brooks: ok - an edu grid that may overlab the other grids
Sheila Yoshikawa: lol to continue my metadata theme, possibly some standard pull down choices in the Object menus - e.g. prompting you to remember to tag something as education (though this might in turn imply more sophisticated search options)
AJ Brooks: what else
Logos Sohl: group mgt is huge
AJ Brooks: better group management - excellent
AJ Brooks: better tagging
AJ Brooks: great
AJ Brooks: what else
Azwaldo Villota wants to be able to view Group IM chat archives
AJ Brooks: excellent - viewing chat archives - what else
Csteph Submariner: social LM sharing
JeanClaude Vollmar: And more groups without the artificial limit of 25
Olivia Hotshot: good one Azwaldo
toBe Destiny: yes, an education grid that may over lap with other grids.... but somehow I need to ask my students to download software and then not see them distracted by other stuff
AJ Brooks: MORE GROUPS!!!!!!
Csteph Submariner: a la Digg (dare I say)
Kattan Hurnung: AJ - delivering on the suggestions to allow more resources built in eg maya or autocad to be imported easily.
Raloc Dorado: some way of easily making dynamic groups would be good
Sheila Yoshikawa: yes, more groups,
AJ Brooks: better importing of 3d objects - ok, what else
Kali Pizzaro: Email chat log to group owner
JanythKU Techsan: hear the new platform will support 40 groups
Csteph Submariner: mp3 support! PLease!
AJ Brooks: email chat log to group owner - nice
Zotarah Shepherd: Since we have hippo groups now and those seem to work well. Group limits are not as critical
AJ Brooks: better media support - great
JeanClaude Vollmar: Being able to send notices to roles in groups as a sub-group of the group.
Logos Sohl: easier video stuff
Dusty Artaud: really, 40 groups?
Kristen Darbyshire: how about video recording reenabled?
AJ Brooks: YES - group notices to roles specifically - yes yes yes
Olivia Hotshot: A BETTER inventory!!!!!!!!!!
Logos Sohl: id like my own calendar management: diary management for events etc
Csteph Submariner: yes
Sheila Yoshikawa: would like to be able to IM all friends (I don't think that's possible, presumably to prevent spamming?)
Birdie Newcomb: better-than-notecards
AJ Brooks: how about being able to organize your friends list
toBe Destiny: grins, now we are all going well
Olivia Hotshot: Yes, AJ.
Sheila Yoshikawa: yes, notecards with bold and italics!
JanythKU Techsan: tag friends list in groups
Xandi Mars: you can im all friends now
AJ Brooks: great stuff - what else?
JeanClaude Vollmar: I'd LOVE that AJ. Yes, organizing friends
Xandi Mars: at once
Csteph Submariner: notecards writable by script
Stephan Mrigesh: Linden Lab could possibly help educators connect with student's, and parent's (if need be) to feel comfortable giving out their real world info, and have heavy enforcement of any deviant behavior shown on campuses. Possibly have a time limit on their avatars, so they can not escape to Night Clubs, or Adult lands per say?
Olivia Hotshot: An easier way to change environment settings and one that comes with a BIG library of windlight settings.
Zotarah Shepherd: There is a limit to friend conference IMs but it is done all the time.
toBe Destiny: i feel that an education grid developed by LL would be well accepted and would have a business case, and could support all of the aspects we are talking about, including ID management
toBe Destiny: who agrees?
ericcgcc Yootz: low power pc access with lower video card requirements
Graham Mills: You can confine avatars to islands by bringing them in using RegAPI
Kali Pizzaro: yes Aric
Csteph Submariner: check the Imprudence client Olivia
Kali Pizzaro: Eric
Jagga Meredith: how will LL make their money?
AJ Brooks: better access to lower quality computers
Birdie Newcomb: education grid -- good idea, can it be done?
Olivia Hotshot: An interface that worked decently on even an average computer? so MORE students and teachers can access it.
toBe Destiny: well, let us talk about how it could be done
toBe Destiny: by LL
Azwaldo Villota applauds "notecards writable by script"
Stephan Mrigesh: I really do not see the problem with this Grid toBe.
Jagga Meredith: not gunna happen
toBe Destiny: this might be a topic for the next meeting , AJ?
Olivia Hotshot: thanks Csteph!
Olivia Hotshot: toBe, all the topics are mapped out for this spring
Sheila Yoshikawa: oh - one thing that came up at the VWs meeting yesterday(in RL) that is a perennial - no upgrades with only 1 days notice
Kali Pizzaro: better cut and paste
toBe Destiny: Stephen, that you do not see does not mean that there are not two basic types, commericalism and sex
Kali Pizzaro: hehe
hobbs Constantine: education doesn't happen insulated from the RL, why should it here?
Birdie Newcomb: What would an education grid look like, techie-wise?
AJ Brooks: tobe - we'll be having a topics meeting in a few week, come by and suggest it - i'm sure it will make the schedule, although our current schedule goes until may at this point
Olivia Hotshot: @Shelia - indeed - the frequent upgrades are a pain for lab situations
AJ Brooks: an edu grid would need to have a venn type overlap
Zotarah Shepherd: LL could allow teens to come in RegAPIs so they can only be on that sim - just like they do on the TG for private school islands.
Sheila Yoshikawa: needing 2 weeks for upgrade notification (that's probably not the category we are talking about now, sorry)
toBe Destiny: so the topic of an dedicated education grid is a possible future topic?
toBe Destiny: ..
AJ Brooks: sure
Sheila Yoshikawa: to get all uni computers imaged (one educator was saying)
Csteph Submariner: I think that is how Bristol arranged it
AJ Brooks: anything is possible for a future topic - most topics are decided bny the group
toBe Destiny: ty
Csteph Submariner: RegAPIs that is
toBe Destiny: who would be interested in this as a future topic?
JeanClaude Vollmar: Yes, Sheila. That can be a problem when they surprise us with a required upgrade that you find out only when you log in.
AJ Brooks: twice a year we have a meeting just to get guest and meeting topic ideas
toBe Destiny: maybe we could schedule a discussion in mid 2016?
toBe Destiny: smiles
AJ Brooks: esepcially when their required upgrades make things worse - liek this last one
Raloc Dorado: Required u[grades don't seem to be so common nowadays
Stephan Mrigesh: ok, I will say that we are ambitious creatures, and as adult's enjoy sex, and commerce (hopefully), but any of the outrageous stuff was moved to it's own grid, so No toBe, it is not too much, and we are working it out.
AJ Brooks: not like the old day, raloc
JeanClaude Vollmar nods to AJ, "Yes! That too."
Olivia Hotshot: Well well - it's 3:30, time flew today!
AJ Brooks: wow - indeed
Kali Pizzaro: yeah
AJ Brooks: thank O for keeping an eye on the clock
ChrisG Techsan: Yes...thanks for the invite...good stuff
Rachelle Munro: great ideas!
Olivia Hotshot: Great job AJ.
AJ Brooks: anyone remember what out topic for next week is?
Olivia Hotshot: welcome
Zotarah Shepherd: Zindra is where all the adult content moved and you have to be age verified to go there.
ChrisG Techsan: What was it this week?
Birdie Newcomb: I hope you do
Stephan Mrigesh: Thanks AJ, bye for now everyone:)
Jagga Meredith: there is adult content on private sims
ChrisG Techsan: Bye all.
Jagga Meredith: but it's age verified there too
Olivia Hotshot: Legal & Ethical Issues in Teaching in Virtual Environment
toBe Destiny: the problem is that the arguments about this and that are more complex that Stephen suggests
AJ Brooks: oh - yes - thats going to be an awesome meeting
Kali Pizzaro: 1st of the month
Olivia Hotshot: TOPIC: Legal & Ethical Issues in Teaching in Virtual Environment
AJ Brooks: Esparanza Freese will be one of our guests
Zotarah Shepherd: Sounds good
Kali Pizzaro: voice
Kali Pizzaro: should be interesting
AJ Brooks: no - in Feb - our special meeting will be on the 9th, with Barry Fishman from the Obama National Educational Technology Plan committee
Lolly Dovgal: This meeting has been very interesting. Great to see so many participating.
AJ Brooks: yes - both next week and the one following will be in voice
Birdie Newcomb: great
Kali Pizzaro: ah just making sure you are paying attention
Csteph Submariner: adult content, my reaction is 'so what'? there was porn on the web in plenty, but6 educators didn't say oh my god boobies, lets go back to gopher...
AJ Brooks: ok - everyone -t haks for coming - see you next week
Margaret Michalski: Thanks AJ! I hope you feel better.
Csteph Submariner: thanks AJ
Csteph Submariner: nice topic
Dusty Artaud: Thank you AJ
Jarrad Voom: Thanks AJ
AJ Brooks: 31 still on the sim - nice
Kali Pizzaro: cheers All
Jarrad Voom: Thanks all
JeanClaude Vollmar: Thanks AJ. See you all again soon.
Azwaldo Villota: Thank you, AJ
Lolly Dovgal: Great job AJ and Olivia, Officer Hotshot, I mean.
AJ Brooks: oh - you're welcome all Ð thanks for coming
Olivia Hotshot: Thanks for coming everyone!
Lolly Dovgal: Bye for now.
Olivia Hotshot: hehehehe
ericcgcc Yootz: hasta al vista
Logos Sohl: Always fun AJ
Logos Sohl: Thanks a mil
Olivia Hotshot would poke Lolly but she's my boss.
AJ Brooks: Officer Hotshot - LOL - is that Like Office Krupke
Csteph Submariner: anyone asticking around to chat?
Olivia Hotshot cringes
Lolly Dovgal: Yes, Offier Krupke, Officer Hotshot...
Csteph Submariner: hehe
Margaret Michalski: I will be sending transcript to Iggy
Margaret Michalski: bye all