Transcript of Virtual Worlds Education Roundtable: Jan. 12, 2010
Topic: "The Future of SL and VW through the Eyes of M. Linden"
Thanks to Sheila Webber and Lolly Dovgal for their photos. Join our VWER group at Flickr and add your own pictures!
A Few Interesting Points:
Links of Interest:
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Hi everyone, and welcome to our weekly Virtual Worlds Education Roundtable meeting.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: If you are sitting in the amphitheater seats, we ask you to come down and join us around the roundtable. There is always an empty seat closest to the ramp.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Our meetings are made possible by the Office of Information Technology at Montclair State University. We meet here each week at 2:30pm SLT for an hour.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: The Virtual Worlds Education Roundtable is a forum to educate and inform the community about issues that are important and relevant to education.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Our meeting today is "The Future of SL and VW through the Eyes of M. Linden"
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: The views and opinions of any of our special guests or visitors do not necessarily represent those who volunteer or organize these meetings,
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: or of the College of Humanities and Social Sciences, Office of Information Technology , or Montclair State University.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Our meetings are roundtable style, so those in the theater seats please come down and join us at the table.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Our magic expanding table will always have an empty seat, located closest to the ramp.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Some of our transcripts are now available transcribed into a sound file. You can find them in iTunes Podcasts by searching for VWER.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: The Virtual Worlds Education Roundtable meeting happens each week and we are looking to develop a community of educators from around the world with a variety of thoughts, needs, and ideas.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Please join the Virtual Worlds Education Roundtable group here in SL. You can also find us on Facebook, LinkedIn, Flicker, and KoinUp, as well as on Twitter as VWER.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: As a hint, it is better to have "local chat" open for these meetings, it will help you follow along better.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: You can find local chat by clicking COMMUNICATE in the bottom navigation bar and you'll find LOCAL CHAT as one of the tabs at the bottom of the window
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Again, I'd like to remind folks to come on down and join us around the table, there's always an open seat closest to the ramp.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: I'm Iggy, the scribe for this group, and I'm hosting today for AJ Brooks. If you've not seen the transcripts I run, you should check them out - they are a great information asset.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Finally, if you have Mystitool on, or other similar tool, please put it to sleep or detach it for now. :-) It tends to lag things.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Today's meeting is in text chat.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Why don't we get started they way we usually do, by introducing ourselves. No need to wait, go ahead and type who you are, where you are, and your ties to education into local chat.
Pandora Kurrajong: I don't know what you're all doing here - Second Life is a ghost town, remember?
Cindy Ecksol: oh, right...I forgot Pandora!
Joel Savard: pandora, yes, that's where we are... ;)
Mimi Muircastle: this is why :) we are all here
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: don't be shy..who came today to our meeting?
Olivia Hotshot: Empty seats ar to the left as you walk down the stairs.
LoCE99Ch8 Morpork: Rosanna Brown, Lassen Community College Library, Susanville (northeastern), California, rbrown@lassencollege.edu, @RbrownLassen. In world, call me Lo.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia is Joe Essid, Dept. of Rhetoric and Communication Studies. I'm the University of Richmond's Writing Center and Writing Across the Curriculum Director. I'm now teaching my fourth class with SL. I'm part of a design team building an immersive simulation of Poe's House of Usher, to launch in Spring 2010.
AJ Brooks: I'm AJ Brooks, AJ Kelton in the actual world. I'm the director of emerging instructional technology for the college of humanities and social sciences at montclair state university in NJ
Katie Fenstalker: Katie King, women's studies, university of maryland, college park.
Mimi Muircastle: mimi/Charlotte - retired ms prin. new vwer com. member :)
Olivia Hotshot: Ann Steckel, Cal State Chico, techie and educator, proud committee member of VWER.
Zotarah Shepherd: I am a MA in Education (technology and psychology) student at Sonoma State University in northern California working on a curriculum project: Teaching and Learning Life-Skills in Second Life. Part of that is an Immersive Interactive Educational build about Life-skills on an educational sim called Ralanora. I also have a build for Multiple Intelligences.
Teachergirl Razor: `/me is Carole Farber, Faculty of Information and Media Studies, The university of Western Ontario
Kali Pizzaro: Evelyn McElhinney Rn and lecturer Glasgow Caledonian University
Esparanza Freese is Hope Botterbusch, Kansas State U Graduate faculty, College of Ed
Pedro McMillan: Peter Bloomfield, PhD student at University of West of Scotland, and developer on the SLOODLE project
Margaret Michalski: Margart Czart, Reseach Information Specialist at the Univ of Illinois in Chicago.
Lolly Dovgal: Laura Sederberg, CSU Chico, CA- in Academic Technologies and faculty curriculum support.
Composite Maven: I'm Terry Creasy, educator in materials science/mechanical engineering at Texas A&M College Station
Hattie Haystack: Gail Hanson Brenner, Clinical Instructor in Nursing, University of Wisconsin - Eau Claire
Eluzielle Mistwalker: Theresa from Farmingdale state college Nursing Simulation
MLani Montgomery: Rinda Montgomery Conwell, Assistant Superintendent North Central ESD, Oregon
AJ Brooks: 52 on the sim
Legion Charisma: Legion / Heather - graduate student in instructional design at Emporia State University in Kansas
Zdenek Buchsbaum: Zdenek, student Czech republic, manager of edu sim
Jagga Meredith: Bruce Shaw. B. Mus A. B Ed. I do UNIX tech, but have to teach users, teach LSL inworld
Nany Kayo: Hi! I'm Nancy McDonald, director of the Virtual Native Lands project.
IzzyLander Karu is Educational Technologist & Coordinator of Distance Education Efforts @ TAMUCC
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: anyone else?
Zotarah Shepherd: What a great group!
Graham Mills is Peter Miller, biologist, University of Liverpool, UK (and has to leave early)
Rachelle Munro: Rochell McWhorter, PhD student, Texas A&M University
Logos Sohl: I'm Niamh O Riordan IRL. I'm doing a Phd in Information Systems that examines knowledge creation in virtual worlds educational projects. I also use SL to teach a module on eCommerce to college level commerce students.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: going once
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: twice....
Joel Savard: Joel Foner, Boston, MA JoelFoner.com PM, Certified ScrumMaster, Consultancy and Startup Coaching (more at http://joelfoner.com/about)
toster Oh: is Tom Oster, Rice University, IT Support
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: sold to M Linden who has all of this anyhow!
Pandora Kurrajong: KerryJ, Senior Education Officer, Education.au's Immersive Learning Unit, building an enviro on Open Sim - Reaction Grid and long-time Jokaydian
Chimera Cosmos: Liz Dorland Washington U in St. Louis
Cindy Ecksol: Cindy Harris, internet consultant, Pittsburgh PA
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: be sure you have a copy of the notecard with our questions
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: in the blue givers by the stair
Chimera Cosmos: ldinstl_chimera on twitter :-)
Gg Riederer: GG Rieder Instructional technology Santa Clara univ. built classroom in SL SCU island
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: During our meeting, I'll use these questions to orient and focus our discussion. We'll leave time for more of your questions as well.
Pandora Kurrajong: kerryank on Twitter here
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: M's blog post can be found at: http://bit.ly/5aj9ea
AJ Brooks: if you are going to tweet this - please make sure to use #vwer
Oronoque Westland: Roberta Kilkenny, Hunter College....sorry trying to get news re:Haitian earthquake and Tsunami warnings
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: good grief! That's news, O. I've been buried in my office all day
Oronoque Westland: just coming over...7.3
Mimi Muircastle: too many earthquakes lately :)
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: makes our virtual world seem trivial...but let's try to carry on
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: I noted last week
Chimera Cosmos: Welcome back AJ :-)
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: that our presenters seemed to agree that Linden Lab has not put as much emphasis on education as they may have done in years past
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: that takes us to the first Q about M's post
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: 1) In the last of his next-decade predictions, M believes that we will see "Universities funnel expansion funds into the virtual world, eschewing expensive real world
building projects in favor of Second Life." What would need to be in place, in SL or your school, for that to happen?
AJ Brooks: expansion funds - HA
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: more faculty teaching with SL, here
Bevan Whitfield: Bevan Whitfield - USA/France - International Business Analyst. Social Media & Web 3D. Extreme Reality, Metanomics, Nokia, Rockcliffe University
Gg Riederer: inworld examples of effective instructional and learning sites, builds, tools, that are easy to adopt.
AJ Brooks: First off, there needs to be a reason for institutions to consider this worth spending money on over other things
Zdenek Buchsbaum: good collaboration tool - sloodle is good, but something less difficult to set up and use.
Margaret Michalski: funding, virtual worlds are not included as part of the online education
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: @AJ, what can move them that way?
Lolly Dovgal: I've been asked to justify the expense and labor hours to support it recently.
Pandora Kurrajong: Recreating campuses or building buildings is not necessarily the best use of virtual worlds however. There are lots of ghost towns.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: SL is cheap, compared to, say, Blackboard
AJ Brooks: well - right now, most institutions are trying to keep the lights on
Pandora Kurrajong: There has to be a reason why.
Cindy Ecksol: credibility vs. other "virtual education" modalities: SL is still "that place with all the porn"
AJ Brooks: SL is not a learning or content management system, never will be
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: @Pandora--agreed
Pandora Kurrajong: Then make a business case for it
Lolly Dovgal: Seems like accountability of numbers of users is important, lately.
Jagga Meredith: before this happens, something has to be done about the lag, obvious bugs
Pandora Kurrajong: The main problem is we don't have the metrics right
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: @Lolly--for all sorts of things--our Writing Center and WAC program have to do that
Pandora Kurrajong: We use traffic as a metric to determine success
Xu Toshi: universities would have to issue universal avatars - the same way they have done email addresses.
Katie Fenstalker: getting beyond the mind set of "platform" or "delivery system" and thinking of play and learning as important elements of SL in special ways.
Pandora Kurrajong: Some use it as their only metric
Zotarah Shepherd: Threat of a pandemic might do it.
AJ Brooks: ferpa creates problems, since we can't authenticate that our students are our students and we can't keep their information safe here
Eluzielle Mistwalker: More scientific data that shows that it is a useful educational tool
Cindy Ecksol: @pandora traffic is too easy to manipulate...and doe snot measure "outcomes"
Pandora Kurrajong: Exactly
Lolly Dovgal: Metrics are helpful to prove worth, though.
AJ Brooks: the only way it will work is if LL moves to standards (everyones, not just theirs) and we can connect our own OpenSim instances to SL
Zdenek Buchsbaum: @agreed
Pandora Kurrajong: Of course they are - that's why there needs to be meaningful metrics
Kali Pizzaro: use of Sl embedded in the curriculum
IzzyLander Karu: something that always comes up in discussion at my institution is, how stable is SL?
Joel Savard: It seems to me that traffic has nothing to do with educational results. Proof in the form of improved educational metrics is likely the only thing that will really drive attention.
Katie Fenstalker: blackboard works for pandemic
Nany Kayo: What Native Americans need to become engaged in education in virtual worlds is high speed internet access and adequate computer hardware in every Native American tribal
community in the US and Canada. We will take it from there.
Kali Pizzaro: yes agree AJ
Margaret Michalski: statistical studies on SL and education
Cindy Ecksol: @Al -- isn't that a statement about "cost" rather than "function"?
Zotarah Shepherd: Universities can have API names for avatars
Zdenek Buchsbaum: *@ Eluzielle agreed
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: @Izzy, it's one area that M has delivered on best, to me: stability. SL is much more stable than it was in 07-08. And it's far more stable than Heritage Key, which my class also used in fall.
AJ Brooks: perhaps, but aren't institutions in a financial situation to be thinking about cost more than anything else?
Pandora Kurrajong: Look at what the Open University in the UK has done to prove the worth of their virtual world outlays
Pandora Kurrajong: the students drive the growth and use
Pandora Kurrajong: it has a purpose
IzzyLander Karu: @Ignatius, that's good to know
Joel Savard: @aj - would lowering costs while potentially reducing efficacy be a win? several studies have shown that we as humans will avoid risk more than pursue potential gain...
Cindy Ecksol: @Al so why not just say "reduce cost" rather than "connect to private instances"? is there another reason why interconnectivity is desirable?
AJ Brooks: its not just cost
Olivia Hotshot: i think before school funnel expansion in SL they need to address our aging computer labs. Access is the stumbling block. Constantly get flack about recommending something with such a high learning curve that takes a decent computer.
Pandora Kurrajong: Return on Investment has many facets
AJ Brooks: its about cross platform standards
Joel Savard: and... the corporate and edu world has been pitched on tech for 20 years as a way of reducing costs...
Eluzielle Mistwalker: Space is a premium and virtual labs would be welcomed if proven
IzzyLander Karu 2nds Joel's remark
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: I would think that Kenny Hubble's project might impress admins...how SL simulations helped train border guards and saved money
Mimi Muircastle: yes, Olivia - extremely important pt.
AJ Brooks: @olivia - yes
Mimi Muircastle: true @Iggy
Cindy Ecksol: @Joel not just "reduce costs" -- "increase productivity" is usually the pitch that works....
Lolly Dovgal: agreed
Olivia Hotshot: Actually, admins don't care what is being done for others - they want to know what can be done now - for them - and with little money spent.
Cindy Ecksol: in education I think that's more like "increase effectiveness"
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: @Olivia--it's a stumbling block here, too....and M does go on about SLHD-which won't run on anything I could imagine getting in this economy
hobbs Constantine: I beg to differ that the cost is prohibitive, education is known as a safe silo in hard times.
Eluzielle Mistwalker: agreed
hobbs Constantine: Our enrollment is going up and and up
Margaret Michalski: at my institution they want to see statistics of i's effectiveness
IzzyLander Karu: @ Olivia, you're correct, i just equipped my training lab 2 yrs ago, and SL won't run on the systems (Dell 735).
Joel Savard: @cindy - increase productivity ... what does this mean for education? generate the same results with fewer teaching hours? can that be demonstrated?
Zotarah Shepherd: The more K-12 schools use VWs the less learning curve for college students.
Mimi Muircastle: unless you are in California rt now, Hobbs
AJ Brooks: just because enrollment is going up doesn't mean the institutin is making more money
Mimi Muircastle: good pt. Zo
Olivia Hotshot: good point @Mimi
Margaret Michalski: at my institution they want to see statistics of effectiveness and nothing else
AJ Brooks: most schools are seeing their endowments and money from government cut dramatically
Katie Fenstalker: AJ right.
Pandora Kurrajong: I produced a video a few months back regarding the use of virtual words in education - http://bit.ly/4Iksrz
Profdan Netizen: True, @AJ.
Mimi Muircastle: so true, AJ
Pandora Kurrajong: the impact comes from student outcomes
Kali Pizzaro: it also depends on how you calculate cost. online learning is not always cheaper or easier
Katie Fenstalker: more enrollment at ours with less money.
hobbs Constantine: I certainly bow in respect to my public U colleagues
Mimi Muircastle: @Katie, too true too many places
Eluzielle Mistwalker: does it improve critical thinking?
Profdan Netizen: or retention?
Mimi Muircastle: no offense, Hobbs :)
Oronoque Westland: @AJ, that is a problem at my university too...enrollment up, financial support down
Joel Savard: The more proof, direct proof, that virtual world education generates better retention, understanding, ability to synthesize from learning and measurable outcomes, the more uptake there will be. (sorry to sound managerial, but this is how outside rl folks look at this environment)
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: As do I. Our tenured faculty can be snotty and push through changes at private schools...but they are the least likely to use SL :(
Mimi Muircastle: also true, @Joel
Cindy Bolero: Split grids, SL and TG hinder many ed institutions from moving forth with SL
Pandora Kurrajong: @Joel but so much of those outcomes rely on the educators using the tool
Logos Sohl: SL needs to become professionalized for education - educators themselves don't build blackboard. Service providers are needed to liase with educators and work as subcontractors. A professionalized environment is a respectable one. And yes, ghost towns need to be done away with
Olivia Hotshot: Just because you can build things more cheaply in a virtual sense, does not mean it is better for education and learning.
AJ Brooks: the whole ghost town thing is crap - sorry - I'm tired of that.
Joel Savard: @olivia... for instance, webinars are also much cheaper than classrooms... but efficacy... maybe not so much :)
Lolly Dovgal: We need proof.
Mimi Muircastle: another great pt. @Olivia
Margaret Michalski: Agree with Olivia
AJ Brooks likes not being moderator
Ignatius Onomatopoeia smirks at AJ
Katie Fenstalker: agrees with AJ re ghost town crap.
Zotarah Shepherd: As teachers embrace the student as a partner in their learning and see how VWs can enhance that, education will move to more VWs.
Cindy Bolero: There should be affordable all age grid like Enterprise to be available for Education
Mimi Muircastle: pokes AJ with elbow :)
Pandora Kurrajong: @AJ it's not crap when buildings are recreated to satisfy egos and have no real purpose
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: my students did not find the thing a ghost town when they began traveling in pairs or trios
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: the objection vanished
Pandora Kurrajong: avatars sitting in rows to learn - jeebus
Mimi Muircastle: too true Pandora
AJ Brooks: marketing is the purpose, I would have to guess
Zotarah Shepherd: Good point Pandora
hobbs Constantine: I was going to say...aren't educators figuring out how to incorportate Facebook? Students are there multiple times a day
Profdan Netizen: That makes a big difference, Iggy.
Cindy Ecksol: @ignatius wow, interesting strategy!!
AJ Brooks: student hate that faculty are on facebook
Pandora Kurrajong: And younger people aren't in Second Life
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: @Dan, did yours do the same?
Katie Fenstalker: FB SL connections are great.
Pandora Kurrajong: not in the numbers us middle age folk are
Profdan Netizen: Very much so.
Zotarah Shepherd: Well RL schools are ghost towns much of the time too.
Profdan Netizen: wanted to do stuff as a group.
hobbs Constantine: if the students go somewhere, educators follow
Kali Pizzaro: yeah but sometimes they dont like you in their social space Hobbs
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: @Pandora--not so sure that will continue. Ask AJ about the demographics of VWs
Pandora Kurrajong: It's which virtual worlds and what activity you're measuring
hobbs Constantine: @ Kali, of course, but that is 2 way street, aye?
AJ Brooks: go to Kzero in the UK
Profdan Netizen: Fastest growing, 10-14 year olds,
Pandora Kurrajong: Perhaps we build too many creepy treehouses here
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Isn't the KZero data showing more younger ppl in virtual worlds?
AJ Brooks: there are millions of kids under 18 in hundreds of virtual worlds
Pandora Kurrajong: But in which worlds Profdan
Nany Kayo: It is astonishing to me that educators and students don't instantly see the value in meeting people from around the world here.
Eluzielle Mistwalker: I agree pandora. My kids did not know what it was till I showed them with my limited knowledge.
Katie Fenstalker: maybe VWs are less about students and more about other collaborations for educators and academics....
AJ Brooks: Habbo
AJ Brooks: Gaia
Zotarah Shepherd: Students should do the building
AJ Brooks: Culub Penguin
AJ Brooks: Club Barbie
Pandora Kurrajong: Yes - but not SL
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: so...let's come back to M's predictions...
AJ Brooks: Webkinz
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: LOL
Pandora Kurrajong: I've read the stats too - and they're not
AJ Brooks: MILLIONS!!!!!!
AJ Brooks: go check out Kzero
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: seems he's way off in predicting steady growth HERE
Pandora Kurrajong: @AJ I have and this is not news
AJ Brooks: oh - so Kzero is making the stats up?
Joel Savard: @aj millions accomplishing edu objectives? :)
Jagga Meredith: M's predictions will not come true unless he's willing to spend big bucks on hardware and fix bugs
AJ Brooks: we're not talking about edu objectives
Pandora Kurrajong: What I'm saying is that they aren't there for the reasons we create here
Cindy Bolero: I teach virtual worlds at college campuses to 11-13 yr olds. I cant use even Teen Grid, I have to use my private Opensim server
AJ Brooks: just in virtual worlds - so developing an expectation of that type of engagement
Pandora Kurrajong: they are there to socialise with each other
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: @Jagga..you take me nicely to another question I had...
MettaFysykyl Republic: is anyone actually doing any planned education/teaching in young people-focused VWs like CP, Barbie or WebKinz?
Logos Sohl: @Nany - this is why we dont need ghost towns. we dont need educators building campuses any more. We need to leverage the community and build a community for learners
Oronoque Westland: @Nany...my Caribbean studies students here in New York were blown away by chatting with an educator located in the Dominican Republic via SL
Jagga Meredith giggles
AJ Brooks: @pandora - I agree with that
Olivia Hotshot: So the bottom line is - are schools lining up to funnel more money into a business that treats educators like an after thought?? (waits for earthquake)
Jonathon Dunn: I'm interested in M's hints that real life sense integration is on the horizon, smelling a rose, touching the feathers of a chicken
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: M closes with his and Linden Lab's near-term improvements for 2010. I'm excited about the new discovery tool to fix search in-world and the new orientation experience.
Which of M's improvements will most help you, as educators and academics?
jokay Wollongong: Kids play more games based platforms.. casual gaming and mmopgs.. spaces which have vws characteristics.. but pandora is right... social at the foreground
AJ Brooks: jokay!!!!!!
Mimi Muircastle: @Logos great pt.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: @Olivia--beware those god powers...
jokay Wollongong: hey aj ;)
Pandora Kurrajong: Hey @jokay!
Zotarah Shepherd: Lyr is working on WoW for education.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Hey jokay!
jokay Wollongong: hey miss P ;)
Profdan Netizen: http://www.virtualworldsnews.com/2009/02/k-zero-260m-registered-accounts-for-the-1015yearold-virtual-world-demo.html
jokay Wollongong: and iggy too! ;)
hobbs Constantine: OMG olivia
AJ Brooks: welcome, dea - great to see you
Nany Kayo: Logos, I meet people from all over the world here every day. I met an indigenous history student from Greenland, no less, who is setting up a project for his people on our sims
Olivia Hotshot: what Hobbs?
Nany Kayo: This is an interesting place
Ignatius Onomatopoeia grins like a fool...now we should just let jokay moderate this :)
Zotarah Shepherd: Many educators are on Reaction Grid
toBe Destiny: yes
jokay Wollongong: and all of you too.. i snuck in late to listen in.. hehe
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: cool
AJ Brooks: you are always welcome
Katie Fenstalker: not justified only by student driven educ objectives?
hobbs Constantine: @ Olivia -- you, dark alley, Lindens. I'd put money on you.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: we are talking about M's "near-term" improvements and what they'll mean for edu
Olivia Hotshot: Hobbs - ahhh now i understand =)
Wizard Gynoid: M needs to empower inter-grid teleporting to and from Reaction Grid and other Open Sims.
Margaret Michalski: I did a demo of SL for 1 faculty member and she actually wante to goto thegenera orienation island as is
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: I know that fixing search will help with my fall class
AJ Brooks: institutions won't buy into this because faculty think it will be good for learning - because a majority of the faculty won't even see this as an alternative
lufpleh Obstreperous: i expect the new Orientation Islands to fail as have not seen LL not reaching out to community for advice/assistance
jokay Wollongong: Agreed Wizard
AJ Brooks: @wizard - yes!
Kali Pizzaro: i want something that works that does not need a technician on call 24 hours a day when an idea that i would like in my Sl teaching comes into my head. so something that is easy to create without complex scripts.
Olivia Hotshot: OMG Wizzy????
AJ Brooks: If they don't - they WILL become the AOL of virtual worlds
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: @Wizard, that interoperability is mentioned as a 10-year goal, but Rezzable is already working on it
Pandora Kurrajong: Yet some organisations see Open Sim as a way of ring fencing their students and protecting them from big, bad Second Life
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: I bet Jon Himoff will release it in a year
AJ Brooks: So is ReactinGrid
Graham Mills: Fixing search and getting a sensible repository for edu in place is a priority
Joel Savard: what is the real goal of interop? siphoning content from sl to other places? why is that in linden lab's interest?
Eluzielle Mistwalker: It is hard enough getting folks to use the human simulators in RL labs and the learning curve is just as steep.
Logos Sohl: @ Graham Here here!
jokay Wollongong: lets hope hypergrid on opensim forces them to move faster on it
AJ Brooks: Siphoning? This is MY content - who's side are yo on Joel?
toBe Destiny: sl might not be adequate for learning until there is knowledge management tools in place...
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: @Joel--they can charge us to host avatars across grids--a good business model
Pandora Kurrajong: And metadata
Kali Pizzaro: the use of C. a lot of our computer guys hate lsl.
Logos Sohl: i was just writing that toBe and then Graham pretty much said the same thing!!
Cindy Ecksol: @ignatius don't give them ideas!!!!!
Oronoque Westland: for my area of instruction search improvement is vital to finding relevant locations
AJ Brooks: thats a great business model, I'd support it
toBe Destiny: yes.. this is why I am looking at Google wave and Twitter API
AJ Brooks: if they come to consensus on standards
Pandora Kurrajong: What is SL doing about mobile users?
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: @Cindy, I think it's too late..someone will do just that. I'm betting on Rezzable
Nany Kayo: The lack of imagination and intellectual curiosity being expressed about the educational community really surprises me.
Jagga Meredith: it's not necessarily the language - it's the bugs in the language
AJ Brooks: Sl - Mobile
toBe Destiny: but here in sl I do not see any of these advanced "semantic" technology
Pandora Kurrajong: Mobile phones becoming device of choice for internet access for millions
Kali Pizzaro: ok thanks toBe
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: @AJ, I don't see "mobile" as a big point in M's post
Nany Kayo: Maybe it is true, but I am surprised by it
Pandora Kurrajong: Is there anything happening on that front
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: instead, SLHD seems to point to high-end desktops
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: and haptic doo-dads
Cindy Ecksol: yes me too -- mobile SL, even just basic text-based, is very useful
Joel Savard: @aj - there are folks in the interop community one of whose goals is to enable moving content to other environments... i won't judge primary or otherwise, but the bulk of the push is\ portable inventory for some.
AJ Brooks: After the words SECOND and LIFE the words NEW and USERS were by far the most frequetn
Katie Fenstalker: what is a haptic do-dad?
Pandora Kurrajong: SL being text based would defeat the purpose
Joel Savard: which could mean siphoning *your* content :)
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: @Katie..I can't say in polite company
Kali Pizzaro: haha
Katie Fenstalker: lol
Tara Yeats: Katie - think "virtual touch"
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: ask Stroker Serpentine
Jonathon Dunn: lol. Haptics is touch capabilities in remote communications
Kali Pizzaro: scratch and sniff
AJ Brooks: @joel - content should be portable - this is my IP, I own it - and I should be able to take it anyplace I want
toBe Destiny: perhaps there might be a group formed that looks at social networking and knowledge management tools in SL, and else where?
Jagga Meredith: need a version that will work behind a firewall on a locked-down computer. I'm at the office on my personal laptop on wifi because I can't install it locally
toBe Destiny: if you are interested, IM me
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: and I hate to admit it...But LL knows where the money is. AJ keeps claiming we edu folks don't mean enough income to LL
AJ Brooks: and the rights of that item should be protected
AJ Brooks: we don't - Iggy - what percentage of their sales do you think we make up?
Margaret Michalski: I think AJ is rghts on that point
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: @AJ, no idea--10%
AJ Brooks really likes not being moderator
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: guessing
Olivia Hotshot: Maybe we should only teach Sex Ed and then we would have a huge cash flow.
Chimera Cosmos: um who is talking?
hobbs Constantine: a big fat 1%?
AJ Brooks thinks Joe should be the moderator from now on
Joel Savard: @aj - we should probably talk offline about whether opening the door opens more doors than you suspect ;)
Pandora Kurrajong: Okay - what are we talking about again? : D
Zotarah Shepherd: Who needs to see the value of VWs for education most? Teachers, students, media, school adnmin ...?
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: so other than fixing search...M mentioned fixing orientation
Katie Fenstalker: AJ, Jo and Olivia are all great moderators....
Nany Kayo: Education could help drive widespread infrastructure development using public funds
Margaret Michalski: @AJ after last week you deserve a break
Pandora Kurrajong: M. Linden's changes and how they'll affect us?
jokay Wollongong: we dont help them make sales.. but we do help them legitimize the product... academics have operated as their cheer squad, archivists, instructional designers..
Graham Mills: Landwise edu and non-profit is similar to adult, about 6%
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: how would that help educators?
Pi Numbers: http://www.mindmeister.com/12213323/best-online-collaboration-tools-2009-robin-good-s-collaborative-map
Olivia Hotshot: Thanks Katie!
Zotarah Shepherd: Parents?
Nany Kayo: That would be good for LL
Voice not available at your current location
Ignatius Onomatopoeia herds the cats with a can-opener
toBe Destiny: if we have a concept based twitter like tool here we might theme out the discourse in this meeting for example..
Oronoque Westland: @Iggy...OUCH
toBe Destiny: based
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: hey, my cats come running
Olivia Hotshot: Twitter is in SL.
Olivia Hotshot: yes, Iggy but they are beer cats
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: LOL
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: it seems that fixing search and orientation would help my students and colleagues greatly
Legion Charisma: fixing orientation (properly) would certainly make it easier to suggest that people check out SL as an educational spot.
Nany Kayo: we are so lucky cats dont have opposable thumbs
hobbs Constantine: When I entered, I was alone and lost, I like the idea of an edu helping folks in safely
Kali Pizzaro: agree Hobbs
Mimi Muircastle: I do too, Hobbs
Legion Charisma: as it stands, I don't feel comfortable telling someone to take a look for any ed possibilities, unless I have time to hold their hand through it
Jagga Meredith: What about letting us run our own hardware and join to their grid - I believe Brazil's doing that
Graham Mills: Like Botgirl said, trails with a purpose too for n00bs
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: did you notice that the document-sharing tools are not on the horizon, except in SL Enterprise?
Katie Fenstalker: say more Iggy.
hobbs Constantine: :-(
Margaret Michalski: @ hobbs, if you talk to a qualitative prof they want to meet strange people in SL
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: well, M notes in "what's ahead"
Pandora Kurrajong: Could someone link to the article please?
toBe Destiny: i feel that education is not a private sector thing, and that there must be a public sector virtual world infrastructure evolve soon
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: a bunch of improvements, but that is not one
AJ Brooks: 61 on the sim
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: http://bit.ly/5aj9ea
toBe Destiny: and have a proposal to achieve this
Bevan Whitfield: I have 66 showing.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: @toBe..what's that?
Oronoque Westland wonders if she is a "strange people"
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: @O....I know I'm one :D
Chimera Cosmos was going to print chat so far...but was 17 pages! LOL
toBe Destiny: education need special things. like the ability to have children on line and security
Nany Kayo: I agree the lack of focus on text based tools here is very disappointing. We are still stuck with notecards we can't even format the fonts on, let alone add html to
Olivia Hotshot: 62 in the sim for the record
toBe Destiny: etc
Logos Sohl: @ Oronoque: we all are Im afraid
AJ Brooks: I know Iggy is one too
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: But document sharing would be huge for educators, and it's missing from M's predictions
AJ Brooks: Please remove HUDS and AOs (and heavy primmed items) the sim is lagging a bit
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: the enterprise folks have it in beta, I believe
AJ Brooks: (or put them to sleep)
Joel Savard: Every time I've tried to arrange to shepherd someone's intro, they've either gone ahead on their own anyway, or then been concerned that they wouldn't be able to handle it if it takes
personal intro. Anyone have solutions for these scenarios?
AJ Brooks: Sun's Project Wonderland has had it for years
Eluzielle Mistwalker: The value of VW is apparent at many tech conferences. But it takes a while to filter down to the locals
Margaret Michalski: @o she wanted to see how the conversations work and topics they talk about
Joel Savard: re @legion back a ways sorry chat lag
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: I noted how little M said about the edu residents, in fact :(
toBe Destiny: (This conversation is almost hopeless, smiles... but it is nice that there are many people here..)
AJ Brooks: he didn't talk about ANY existing resident groups
JordiSunshine Takacs: I have no voice chat.... how annoying...
AJ Brooks: Its turned off
Logos Sohl: This shepherding this is real. It's very time consuming. This is a problem.
AJ Brooks: we don't use it today
JordiSunshine Takacs: ah.
hobbs Constantine: @ Margaret, I get that...but to me that could be defined as research , no whole scale entering of whole universities
Logos Sohl: What we need are service providers
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: we use voice on our first-of-the-month events
AJ Brooks: no - schools can't pay for this, and they won't
Nany Kayo: Joel, our approach is going to be a kind of super luxury resort package with the house and clothes and the whole deal.
Joel Savard: hehe :)
Syzygy Merlin: service providers to do what exactly?
Oronoque Westland: @Joel....I recommend a good orientation like Virtual Ability and hope for the best
Mimi Muircastle: ISTE has an orientation too
Margaret Michalski: @ hobbs the department sent her as the secret explorer.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: I'm not doing our questions in order b/c of how the conversation has flowed, but let's look for a moment at #2
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: M makes several predictions other for the next 10 years. Which of them seems most likely to you? Least likely? Why?
hobbs Constantine: @Iggy, I ready M's as a more corporate "state of the union" I wasn't quite sure it was meant to be exclusionary
Olivia Hotshot: ahh back on track - good man Ig.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: @hobbs...actions speak loudly
Joel Savard: thanks @oro... i guess i'm working the "initial encounter" thing... understood that there are good and right places for people to drop in, however i've often seen people ignore that advice and just "click something" on their own
hobbs Constantine: @ Iggy, I'm learning that. (smile)
Cindy Ecksol: I think all of them are "likely" question is which are "most impactful"?
Joel Savard: that first encounter is the thing that i think will determine large scale acceptance or not - before the first hour - first couple of minutes impression
Cindy Ecksol: or maybe "most transformational?"
Olivia Hotshot: "Everyone will have an avatar in 10 years" - i don't see that happening - at least as we see avatars in SL, if Wii avatars count then maybe closer to the "everyone"
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: I would like to get replies to my e-mails...For all its 2.5 flaws, the Metaplace folks did a good job at that
Syzygy Merlin: we are developing a Moodle course for our educators' orientation
toBe Destiny: why can the education community as a group move to ask that a public sector infrastructure be developed for education in the future
toBe Destiny: ?
Oronoque Westland: @Joel...I tell my students to open their accounts via Virtual Ability also...that takes them straight to Virtual Ability Island before they knpow how to go elsewhere
Pandora Kurrajong: In the next 10 years I think we will mediate our online lives with avatars certainly
Nany Kayo: The walls come down early in the second decade. That looks likely
Legion Charisma: @Joel I'm working on a series of videos that help with common noob problems. But you have to either go to YouTube to see them or be in a spot with one of my media players. Not a great process yet, but I see the orientation issues as pretty huge.
Cindy Ecksol: I would say SLHD blurring the lines between SL and RL is probably what's going to have the most impact.
Chimera Cosmos: But Metaplace was MUCH smaller, and still new.
hobbs Constantine: Actually, it occurs to me now that M sounded like "forward looking statements of activity" as I would say
Joel Savard: thanks @legion, ig, oro
hobbs Constantine: a prospectus
Katie Fenstalker: agrees with Cindy.
Syzygy Merlin: a marketing plan for SL would be helpful
Pandora Kurrajong: A roadmap
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: I don't see SLHD or something like it soon, without major bumps in computing power and personal income, Moore's Law or no
AJ Brooks: @iggy - def.
Mimi Muircastle: @Iggy, important
Kali Pizzaro: Agree Iggy
Joel Savard: rats - have to jump - rl just called insistently... thanks all
Pandora Kurrajong: I think he's dreaming in terms of Second Life being the standard
Katie Fenstalker: agrees about computing power especially @ Iggy.
Cindy Ecksol: anyone else a scifi reader? I always tell my students that if they want to know where "all this" is going, they should read scifi from 60's, 70's 80's.....
AJ Brooks: @pandora - it CAN be
AJ Brooks: if they stop trying to be proprietary
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: I'm at a wealthy school and we are stretching replacement cycles on equipment for several years out
Katie Fenstalker: likes Cindy's SF point too.
Nany Kayo: ToBe, the educational community would need to see some value in exploring the world outside their immediate neighborhood and school district in order to see the value of virtual worlds.
hobbs Constantine: I didn't like the scratch and sniff idea---
Cindy Ecksol: Isaac Asimov, Robert Heinlein, John Brunner had all this worked out ages ago....
Pandora Kurrajong: @AJ do we want it to be?
AJ Brooks: YES!
Lolly Dovgal: @Nany, YES>
Pandora Kurrajong: @AJ why?
AJ Brooks: I want to be able to go to other grids
toBe Destiny: yes, but the SL is set up for other purposes, Nany
Katie Fenstalker: @Cindy -- thinks John Varley.
Oronoque Westland: @Cindy...isn't that why Jules Vern was so fantastic!
AJ Brooks: IU want to house my own grid
AJ Brooks: so I can give each faculty member a whoel damn island!
toBe Destiny: this is why we are making this other recommendation to the White House
JordiSunshine Takacs: Aas to sci fi, would that includ Dick and "Do Androids Dream..."?
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: @toBe, what purposes do you see for SL, then?
AJ Brooks: I need middle and grade school kids to be able to work with our edu faculty
toBe Destiny: that a public sector infrastructure be set up for
toBe Destiny: certain things
AJ Brooks: I need stability and behind a firewall without paying 55,000
toBe Destiny: health information, education and decentralization
Pandora Kurrajong: @AJ So why SL and not something else?
Katie Fenstalker: @AJ -- we want whole islands!
Nany Kayo: Second Life becomes a standard in business, education and government. This would have an impact on people who are well versed in this technology. We would be in demand.
AJ Brooks: Proprietary doesn't work for the web, it won't work for virtual worlds
Olivia Hotshot: agree with AJ, and poor Nebraska - why did they have to take the rap?
Eluzielle Mistwalker: I like that AJ (island)
Cindy Ecksol: @AJ probably get what you pay for, eh?
Logos Sohl: toBe is sort of hitting the nail on the head
toBe Destiny: SL has been a training ground only
Gwenette Writer: @ Ig this is the public face space:)
Chimera Cosmos: I like the idea of having other grids for people to practice on, maybe teach or do business on - but I would not want to leave the wider SL community. Just for those limited functions.
Logos Sohl: infrastructure
toBe Destiny: it must be left behind
AJ Brooks: @pandora - it WILL be something else if SL doesn't get on the ball
Gwenette Writer: public
Syzygy Merlin: Cooperative Extension wants to bring 4-H into SL, it is the largest youth development program in the world
Logos Sohl: knowledge management
Cindy Ecksol: $55K is pretty inexpensive for what you have in mind....
Logos Sohl: professionalization
jokay Wollongong: To me it sounds like we need standards across worlds.. rather than one grid to rule them all
Mimi Muircastle: me either, Chimera :)
Syzygy Merlin: but the barriers are too great
Logos Sohl: baseline services
Pandora Kurrajong: @AJ but you said you wanted it to be the standard - so I'm asking why?
AJ Brooks: Cindy - you donate 55K to MSU and I'l make sure it gest put to good use
Olivia Hotshot: @Cindy, only if you have 55K to spare and we don't
AJ Brooks: in the meantime, I'm fighting to get them to continue my tier
Logos Sohl: standards. yes
Katie Fenstalker: @Logos what about knowledge management?
jokay Wollongong: I want to be able to use SL, have my own grid, play on reactiongrid, bring my wow avie over to teach accounting and then go play in aion
Chimera Cosmos: If we were on ANY other grid, we would not have the diversity we have here today, or the numbers.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Let me address the cost issue...is it time or money that makes SL less adopted than it might be?
hobbs Constantine: Sorry, I'm behind on the chat but speaking of SciFI http://plexus.org/forster/index.html [link to Forster's "The Machine Stops"]
Syzygy Merlin: why don't they have edu pricing for the Nebraska thing?
Olivia Hotshot: We are talking about paying $50 a month - 55K - i would be laughed at
Mimi Muircastle: could a group of universities pay the $55K as a group?
Pandora Kurrajong: @jokay This avi would get her arse kicked in Wow!
JordiSunshine Takacs: or is lack of adoption fear of "dangers that lurk out there"?
Lolly Dovgal: Time more than money, I think.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: @Lolly--I agree
jokay Wollongong: LMAO Pandora... mine too... i reckon Helluva would be ok tho.. she has the boots... teehee
Gwenette Writer: hyper gridding is critical so we can use diff grids for diff purposes
toBe Destiny: maybe I could make a presentation of the "Bridge to the Future"
AJ Brooks: @jordi - that is true to some extent - but also true for all new things
toBe Destiny: the proposal to Obama
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: seems that even for Reaction Grid prices, the learning curve is so steep to deter the mainstream
AJ Brooks: Speaking of that proposal - Barry Fishman will be our special guest on the 9th of Feb
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: that is why Viewer 2.0 has my interest
Gwenette Writer: Mimi issue is behind WHICH firewall will it reside??
Logos Sohl: C# for SL would be pretty cool
Kali Pizzaro: it is not just the money for the island . they then need to pay for technicians etc
Mimi Muircastle: I know - just an idea :)
JordiSunshine Takacs: More so in my experience with administrators fo this. The time it takes for me to explain a VW before a question about "how do you deal with X deviancy?" can be measured in miliseconds.
jokay Wollongong: Hrm Iggy.. remember SL in 2006.... the content on opensim is limited now.. but it will come
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: to quote M, "simplifying the interface and adding some compelling new features"
Cindy Bolero: I suspect there is no ed pricing for nebraska because if a university could afford it, they would have less SL presence
Syzygy Merlin: staffing a location is pricey
Sheila Yoshikawa: @Gwenette and Jokay - yes - different grids for different purposes, don't want just an education-only grid
Nany Kayo: @Cimaera Cosmos re: diversity and numbers - I think you are absolutely right. This is why SL is important
Jagga Meredith: C# will only work if the underlying libraries work correctly. otherwise it's just another buggy implementation
jokay Wollongong: Right on sheila... i am very scared of education only, walled garden grids... how very beige!
AJ Brooks: not adandoning SL - that is why intergridding is so important
AgileBill Firehawk: totally
Mimi Muircastle: @jokay - and boring :)
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: @Sheila, I agree too--my students, once over the nooby-ness, wanted to see the community. They loved Burning Life...and thanks to Olivia for help with that!
toBe Destiny: intergridding is important
Oronoque Westland: education in isolation is de-education
AgileBill Firehawk: "it's the peeps, not the prims"
Nany Kayo: C# for SL will be extremely cool, Logos. I agree
jokay Wollongong: yay bill ;)
AJ Brooks: lol - its the peeps, nt the prims - love it
Mimi Muircastle: peeps nor prims - perfect !!!
toBe Destiny: C# for SL, yea
hobbs Constantine: good one agile
toBe Destiny: i hope to see that
Gwenette Writer: I recommend Reaction now for inexpensive islands for expansion and private classes no tech maintenance as with own grid and cheap
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: that is my pull-out line for the transcript! Thanks, AgileBill!
AJ Brooks: I just tweeted that - totally
Cindy Bolero: I do education and business in SL, trying to perfect the briefest experience for avatars there only for that reason. Because they had to come in for class or business meeting. otherwise, schools and business are turned off by how hard it is to be an avatar with so little time for SL
AJ Brooks: great line - VWER may steal it! LOL - *just kidding)
Gwenette Writer: but SL atm and perhaps for the long run will be "the Big City" public place
Logos Sohl: it really shouldnt matter which grid. the baselines services should be covered regardless. what we should be in a position to concentrate on is the content we deliver. the innovations in the kinds of education that work best here. innovations in content, social media
Eluzielle Mistwalker: @ Mimi I like your idea if it could work
Chimera Cosmos: It seems old/mature here to some of us because we've been here awhile. But truly, I think it's in the VERY early adopter stage at most colleges. What happens is still to be written.
toBe Destiny: is there a Twitter API based connection that can be used in world in SL?
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: so we have one more Q on my list we've not addressed fully...#3
toBe Destiny: as yet
toBe Destiny: ?
Legion Charisma is making a t-shirt - Peeps, Not Prims
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: M moves to his recap of 2009. He discusses accomplishments in the "experience," the "ecosystem," and the "platform." I'll begin by noting that I have seen more stability in the SL platform for me and my Fall 2009 class. Which of M's stated accomplishments have you seen? How?
Gwenette Writer: to Chim yes I agree
AJ Brooks: most the work I've helped my faculty do with their students - most - not all - could be done on our own server running OS
Pandora Kurrajong: So as educators fighting for the use of virtual worlds in the face of a risk averse administration - an education-only grid isn't attractive?
Logos Sohl: the answer isnt really from LL imo
Chimera Cosmos: most of my colleagues don't disparage SL--they have never even heard of it
Mimi Muircastle: an education grid only seems like a fancy LMS in 3D
Gwenette Writer: exactly
Jagga Meredith: is M on drugs? SL's been so laggy as to be unusable for the last two months.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: @Pandora--if it's easy and cheap and stable, maybe. I didn't find Heritage Key--just such a place--stable enough yet
AJ Brooks: I had a great deal of trouble finding things in M's blog that I thought were worth the pixels
Jagga Meredith: I'm surprised we haven't crashed
Syzygy Merlin: well as you can see someone quickly put together this Pandora/Avatar role play stuff
Gwenette Writer: Jagga I have been good??
Logos Sohl: @ Jagga - you are SO tempting fate!
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: @Jagga--I don't agree. Laggy, yes, but much more stable for me than a year ago
toBe Destiny: agrees with Logos, what they are doing is important, bu the LL business model is not going to support precisely what we need for K-12 and college education
Olivia Hotshot: Twitterbox: http://ordinalmalaprop.com/twitter/
AJ Brooks: Ever since that last minute forced upgrade a few months back, the grid has been like crap
Cindy Bolero: whenever there is a major upgrade of something, SL has problems before and after. recently there was server upgrade
Gwenette Writer: LL model is in constant state of evolution they too are pioneers
Pandora Kurrajong: In Australia educators in the vocational edu sector can't use SL because some students under 18 others over 18
Jagga Meredith: AJ: OK, so I'm not hallucinating
JordiSunshine Takacs: @mimi FO rmy students, an open diverse grid is more valuable than a walled garden.
Syzygy Merlin: voice fails frequently
hobbs Constantine: gee, I thought my lag was me!
toBe Destiny: we will continue to have to do things in the more difficult way until a system is available whtat support the mission of education, not entertainment and not commerce
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: note that the next upgrade, Au and Nino have stated, will be to the new viewer
AJ Brooks: no - the lag has been bad
AJ Brooks: very bad
Olivia Hotshot: SL Tweets: http://www.sltweets.com/
Pandora Kurrajong: In games we use Ventrilo - so voice stuff easy to work around
toBe Destiny: ty
Kali Pizzaro: mine is not to bad
Cindy Bolero: The new viewer that looks like a web browser?
Mimi Muircastle: @jordi :)
Gwenette Writer: toBe we must remember that sl was not developed with edu or corp in mind . . . they are adapting as rapidly as they can I think
Margaret Michalski: @ Aj that iswhy I am staying quiet
Graham Mills: I agree with Iggy -- service much improved over last year
toBe Destiny: sltweets
jokay Wollongong: I gotta say.. at $25 per month i'll put up with the odd crash and bang on reaction grid... meanwhile im getting increasingly angry at the lack of quality of service i get for my $1200 per month in SL... they need to get basic service provision sorted
jokay Wollongong: now
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: @Cindy, Tateru Nino got an advance copy months ago. Not quite. But a simpler interface.
toBe Destiny: good this is helpful to me
Mimi Muircastle: Yes, Gwennette - that is the problem
AJ Brooks: well - lets look at this $25 tho
Chimera Cosmos: Jokay...we love you!
Eluzielle Mistwalker: @ chimera I agree in the not to distant future it will be widely accepted
AJ Brooks: yo only get 8000 prims
Cindy Bolero: LL has said SL was not designed for events and other gatherings, and have been working hard to turn that around
Graham Mills: I hear good things about the new viewer for n00bs
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: @Jokay--right on
Olivia Hotshot: the $25 does not get you the same experience as SL..... BUT it is coming.
Gwenette Writer: Rg is cool and you can get 6 sims for 150 and share and you can SAVE WHOL:E SIM INSITU to an OAR file a re-rezz later . . . just as in sl enterprise
Cindy Bolero: It was originally a building paradise
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: so around the table...a straw poll
jokay Wollongong: true aj.. but i can have a grid for about 1/3 of what i pay now on RG...
AJ Brooks: STRAW POLL!!!!!!!!
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: if another grid offered something similar for less money...
Wizard Gynoid: 60 avies here and not too laggy. ;-)
AJ Brooks: but you can only build so much on it Jokay
jokay Wollongong: I'll pay for SL happily.. if they actually start delivering the service i pay for!
Gwenette Writer: Jokay as in on your own servers with NO society??
Cindy Bolero: avatars are the worst parasites for sims, and the improvements over the years is good.
Chimera Cosmos: with a few hundred sims vs 30K+ - it will be a long time before the experience is comparable - and there a lot of opensim worlds to choose from
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: would you...switch completely? Split your time? Stay in SL?
Graham Mills: It's not just about money, it's about effectiveness
Pandora Kurrajong: @AJ you can only build so much in SL if you're a renter
AJ Brooks: SPLIT
Pandora Kurrajong: I think you have to slipped
toBe Destiny: again, and quietly, the business model is about profits and this is not what is needed in education. that model has to be a public service "utility" function that governs design and
evolution of the virtual worlds infrastructure..
Cindy Ecksol: split
jokay Wollongong: No Gwenette.. im talking about hosted services ala the type of thing reactiongrid offer..
Margaret Michalski: @iggy split
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: split
Katie Fenstalker: stay but I am not paying right now.
Legion Charisma: I'd probably split
Syzygy Merlin: split
Pandora Kurrajong: I want a toe hold where the action is right now - SL - but want to build in the new
Gwenette Writer: I think we have to constantly WHIIIIIINE for hypergridding ahhah
hobbs Constantine: I would hope for the best and insure everything
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: no Hillibillies yet on Reaction Grid...yet :)
AJ Brooks smiles at Katie
Olivia Hotshot: It is also about a business model that recognizes the needs of educators and students and who actually deliver to service those needs.
Mimi Muircastle: stay, for now
Kali Pizzaro: i dont care what it cost as long as i can use to teach and it is stable.
Jagga Meredith: split - education on its own platform
jokay Wollongong: I think we all MUST multigrid..
AgileBill Firehawk: Re poll - I have space on RG, SL and Teleplace, but hang my yellow hat at SL - because I can shop for lots of toys and meet lots of peeps - like y'all
toBe Destiny: yes Olivia
Pandora Kurrajong: As an early comer to RG - it's nice to see the wave of newcomers
jokay Wollongong: we need to be in SL where the community is..
Gg Riederer: Stay for now
Katie Fenstalker: (smiles back at AJ)
Gwenette Writer: the question on open sim is and will be for sometime: is the provider grid in it for the long run and are they technically capable
jokay Wollongong: but we need to build the niche options... explore other spaces too
AJ Brooks: We'll be doing a meeting in RG on February 8th
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: the community in SL keeps us here, I hear some of you saying
AJ Brooks: contact Olivia Hotshot about that
Mimi Muircastle: yes, Jokay - I like the rich comm. here that is more than just educ.
JordiSunshine Takacs: Stay as long as there are communities like this to study. You are my data :)
Kali Pizzaro: Agree Jokay but good to know they have competition
Pandora Kurrajong: And Aussie educational jurisdictions are hot to have all educational materials created for and by students hosted on their own servers
Logos Sohl: The community already transcends the borders of second life because so many other media involved
Gwenette Writer: agreed
Pandora Kurrajong: So RG and Open Sim are very attractive to us
AgileBill Firehawk adds venuegen and web.alive to the list
Olivia Hotshot: <---- going to Reaction Grid Feb 8 for our off SL meeting. see me for questions
AJ Brooks nods at Logos
Lolly Dovgal: It will be good to see both.
toBe Destiny: the community here is not really rich, it is highly selective... and does not support the full range of social needs like health and education
Fire Centaur: Hi everyone
jokay Wollongong: jokaydia will also be running regular meetups on RG starting in feb.. you are all very welcome... jokaydia.com (shameless plug.. sorry.. lolz)
IzzyLander Karu looks at Olivia with questioning expression
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: SO then...what questions does the group have that we've not addressed?
Oronoque Westland: sorry missed something ... what is $25?
Margaret Michalski: @ logos I have been exploring a bit more than I should at the moment
AgileBill Firehawk: @lol Jokay!
Free Radar HUD v1.1 by Crystal Gadgets
Olivia Hotshot pokes Izzy again
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: @O--price per month on Reaction Grid for $25
Pandora Kurrajong: $25 buys you an island - $75 buys you a private 4-island grid (per month)
AgileBill Firehawk: $25 is the price of an entire sim on RG
Nany Kayo: Ignatius, right. It is the potential to meet new people and engage in mutual learning that makes SL interesting.
Cindy Bolero: I think we should really cry out for education grids at 501c pricing like Enterprise
AgileBill Firehawk: megaprims too!
AJ Brooks: an entire sim at 8,000 prims instead of 15,000
Cindy Bolero: and still keep SL presence
AgileBill Firehawk: 8k prims for 25 - 20 avis
Mimi Muircastle: yes, Cindy!!!!
hobbs Constantine: May I humbly ask....what ARE some of the beefs of educators with VW in general?
AJ Brooks: and we have megaprims here too
Syzygy Merlin: @Cindy agree!!!!!!
Pandora Kurrajong: AJ but they react differently
jokay Wollongong: We dont have editable megaprims here aj.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: @hobbs--a big Q, that!
AJ Brooks: well - true
AJ Brooks: true true
Pandora Kurrajong: But this isn't about which is better
Gwenette Writer: see this http://reactiongrid.com/
Cindy Bolero: I've already expressed it in my SLDEV quarterly input form. and will do whenever I can
hobbs Constantine: I got an earful of it last week, but from a select group
Pandora Kurrajong: This is about using VWs effectively for education
jokay Wollongong: and we also cant use services like unity etc... bring web services in etc
Pandora Kurrajong: and whether or not the changes M Linden outlined will help, isn't it?
Olivia Hotshot: Group management is a bear for educators who are teaching classes.
Cindy Bolero: I've given talks and presentations to many schools and orgs in SL and RL. 80% cant move forth because of split age grid
Gwenette Writer: core issue: new and learning curve as with all new things
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: yes, I wonder about "breaking immersion" but my last class didn't mind having their browsers open while using SL
Pandora Kurrajong: Yup - big prob here in Aus @Cindy
hobbs Constantine: We're we supposed to be reminded of something? my remembral is red
Pandora Kurrajong: And again, there are third party tools like Ventirlo
Pandora Kurrajong: Sorry Ventrilo that can handle voice
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: but @jokay--I wish it were all here in SL, and not in another window
Gwenette Writer: @ Ig some have resource issue can gear support that. . .
Pandora Kurrajong: We use it in Warcraft
Cindy Bolero: I use my own opensim server when teaching classes at campuses in RL
toBe Destiny: yes Cindy, Nany Kayo and I have talked about this split age SL model also... this split is there so that the sex industry can be supported
toBe Destiny: but this is not what education needs
Katie Fenstalker: (breaking immersion matters only for role play?)
Mimi Muircastle: @hobbs, the Reading mtg I think
hobbs Constantine: @ ah thanks Mimi
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: @Katie...seems to matter to many educators for lots of things, judging from past remarks here and at SLED
Nany Kayo: Learning curve is an issue for educators?
AJ Brooks: this was a freaking awesome meeting!
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: next week....
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: The Reading Meeting
Aurora Kitaj: do you mean the teen sl toBe?
AJ Brooks: yay1
Olivia Hotshot: please do not get me started about the SLED list.
Gwenette Writer: breaking immersion matters for any training or transmission of knowledge even in rl - ask a storyteller
Mimi Muircastle: @Nancy lol
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: our article is..."A Methodology for Measuring Usability Evaluation Skills Using the Constructivist Theory and the Second Life Virtual World"
jokay Wollongong: oh iggy.. i mean creating tools using web-based services.... eg using an api to draw dynamic content in... check out some of the stuff people are doing with unity and opensim..tres cool!
toBe Destiny: yes the teen SL is split from the adult SL
Cindy Bolero: I've been in SL since sex was in your face everywhere toBe, and have been working to help people understand why the content migration etc
toBe Destiny: and this is not what education needs
Logos Sohl: @ Olivia ah go on :)
Katie Fenstalker: link for reading?
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: you can download it at http://bit.ly/6bkVDf
Kali Pizzaro: Yes Olivia Yes the ability to not be able to create things easily. sometimes something pops into yout head but you do not have the ability to create it
Olivia Hotshot: @logos - not a chance =)
AJ Brooks: @cindy - you're only in the SL 2 months longer than me - and I've never seen "sex in your face"
toBe Destiny: we need security and thoughtfulness, not something that is tacitly supporting any kind of entertainment one can conceive of
Chimera Cosmos: I'm not sure that people in RL agree any more than we do about the best way to run things - depends on your perspective, goals, and values. LOL
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: @AJ, you just don't go to enough low places!
IzzyLander Karu waves bye as he has o run.
AJ Brooks: lol
Mimi Muircastle: oh, so true @Chimera :)
Olivia Hotshot: AJ, maybe you are not adult verified? =)
jokay Wollongong: hrm toBe... so we're gonna lock education up in a walled garden of safety? sure there are benefits to that... but what do we lose??
Pandora Kurrajong: I've seen three penii my whole time in SL that's it.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: my students seem to find that content :(
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: LOL @Pandora!
Syzygy Merlin: @Pandora lol
Mimi Muircastle: @jokay - no walls for educ.!!
toBe Destiny: jokay, that is a polemic.... I do not want to do any such thing
Oronoque Westland: I was mooned at a librarians mtg about a year ago
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: is that the correct plural?
Nany Kayo: Well, we get by with the using the Internet for educational purposes for now, rather than strictly intranets. I guess we can find a way to deal with SL if its all we have
AJ Brooks: i've only seen one - the one that came with my shape - LOL
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Mooned by librarians...now that is another pull-out line!
Pandora Kurrajong: Unfortunately educational administrators and pollies here are extremely risk averse
AJ Brooks: lol
Olivia Hotshot gets people back on track and blushes profusely
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: TMI, AJ!
hobbs Constantine: TMI
Mimi Muircastle: ouch - I was an adm. !
Pandora Kurrajong: They would no more consider letting under 18s onto the main SL grid than they would teaching them to shoot up
AJ Brooks: ROFL
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: we have a couple more minutes
Oronoque Westland: @Pandora... I must remember that the next time the grandsons strip
Kali Pizzaro: do we ban the use of goggle then
Syzygy Merlin: I'd be more worried about pedophilia among RL education programs
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: what is YOUR prediction for the next year???
Pandora Kurrajong: hehehe @oronoque
Katie Fenstalker: likes comparison with internet, re risk.
Mimi Muircastle: hehehe Kali
Chimera Cosmos: People who only read newspapers think that St. Louis is a scary crime-ridden place too.
Oronoque Westland: NO IGGY...not by the librarians, AT the librarians' mtg
AJ Brooks: A sea change over the summer - something big, impacting SL in a big way
Chimera Cosmos: it's all in where you go
Pandora Kurrajong: @Ignatius people are going to go beyond bounds of SL and explore new options
Pandora Kurrajong: Open Sim will hopefully be in BETA by March
Syzygy Merlin: a sea change? woohoo another water continent?
toBe Destiny: the problem with these polemics like the one stated by jokay is that these keep us form seeing the real issues, and these real issues is that education is not fari and is not equal... to
make it fair and equal we need a national or world infrastructure that is designed to support just education,... nothing elese
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: cool
hobbs Constantine: I predict Paddy will drive a tractor to this meeting
Pandora Kurrajong: And people will also experiment with hosting their own walled - off worlds
toBe Destiny: imagine being in a class room teaching and someone comes in naked... this just does not do well
Margaret Michalski: edu will be split between SL & Open sim
Olivia Hotshot: Someone will invent a hyper grid product that makes everyone rethink and freak out because sudddely we can go everywhere
Katie Fenstalker: Likes tobe's comment.
Mimi Muircastle: yay, Olivia!
Jonathon Dunn: @Olivia, if only
AJ Brooks: @olivia - that may be already in existance
Syzygy Merlin: I should mention PBS is doing a shoot at 4:00pm for an episode of FRONTLINE
Mimi Muircastle: where, AJ
jokay Wollongong: I just dont agree toBe... education is part of life.. just like sex is... we need to find ways to co-exist.. not create boundaries
Jonathon Dunn: @AJ, do tell
Olivia Hotshot believe it is in existence
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Rezzable will launch a multi-grid inventory tool
AJ Brooks: I can't
Mimi Muircastle: again, go Jokay!
Pandora Kurrajong: I think Intellectual Property and copyright are going to be big issues
Syzygy Merlin: it is for a piece called "Digital Nation"
Chimera Cosmos: There is nowhere in RL I could have met the variety of friends that I see here today - we never would have crossed paths. And I value that greatly.
Mimi Muircastle: true, Pandora
Gwenette Writer: I think sl will be one of many vw locations and tool sets that educators will attach to their tool belts and individuals will favor their own preferred tools . . schools will be slow to adopt unless we actively see things like the texas grant program working and have a strong case study to use as persuasive
Pandora Kurrajong: People have been grabbing photos of their own clothing and other possessions and using them as they please
Syzygy Merlin: if anybody wants to be in it I have the LM
Gwenette Writer: strong case study ahha
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: other predictions?
Olivia Hotshot: Post it Syzygy
Syzygy Merlin: of course they are shooting at a SL pub not an educational program lol
Pandora Kurrajong: This is going to present legal challenges
Legion Charisma: I agree, jokay. It's just like RL. You can't control what your students do once they leave your classroom.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: we are at the end...so I want to thank all of you for surfing the chaos with us this week
Pandora Kurrajong: I am hoping a mobile app for VWs will be released
Logos Sohl: At the moment SL is being used where educators are willing to evangelize it
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: I'll stick around for a while to chat
Pandora Kurrajong: Because a lower impact vw will be the game changer
Logos Sohl: I have had to fight tooth and nail to bring my students in
Gwenette Writer: Rezzable will be blocked if LL has their way I imagine - bad for LL business
Kali Pizzaro: great chat folks
Olivia Hotshot: Pandora, well lawyers seem to have no shortage of money, so lets give them some business and get the hypergrid tool rolling.
Mimi Muircastle: this chaos has been awesome and full of great ideas!
Pandora Kurrajong: Mobile phones and Netbooks are the tool of choice of millions
jokay Wollongong: hoooray everyone!... glad i caught the last part of the session ;)
Margaret Michalski: Thanks Iggy!
Katie Fenstalker: claps.
toBe Destiny: jokay, of course you do not agree... that is what you do... but the problem is that there are no complete solutions that will be provided by SL, because LL is focused on the business model. Education is not a business it is a social responsibility
Pandora Kurrajong: Some countries bypassing upgrades to internet connectivity
Logos Sohl: ty ty ty
Kali Pizzaro: yeah mobile
Olivia Hotshot: Thanks Iggy! Great session.
Syzygy Merlin: PBS shoot is a Molaskey's Pub on Wichi
Graham Mills: zero-install 3D with UGC would be nice :)
Mimi Muircastle: good job herding cats, Iggy :)
Nany Kayo: well, this meeting is open to the public in SL nobody showed up here naked
Pandora Kurrajong: ignoring mobile is silly
Margaret Michalski: ttyl
Nany Kayo: yet
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: @Nany-I'll get my ALT, Pappy.
Jagga Meredith: don't tempt me
Chimera Cosmos: The Hemorrhaging Edge Society
Logos Sohl: sounds like a challenge
Syzygy Merlin: http://slurl.com/secondlife/Wichi/147/212/32
Katie Fenstalker: and if they did we would politely ignore it.
AgileBill Firehawk: Bravo, great to see you all! http://bit.ly/aws10 - for my agile con Fri and Sat (plug plug)
toBe Destiny: yes nany, that is true
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: @Katie--Pappy is 8' tall and weighs 500 pounds
AJ Brooks: AWESOME MEETING EVERYONE!
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: thanks all!
Kali Pizzaro: Great job Iggy
Pandora Kurrajong: YAY BILL
Gwenette Writer: ?? anyone going to TESOL Boston in March??
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: you'd not miss him
Graham Mills: thx to all -- good discussion
Mimi Muircastle: it has been - chaos is sometimes good :)
Olivia Hotshot: Thanks for coming everyone! What a great january!