Transcript of Second Life Education Roundtable: Nov. 24, 2009
Topic: Use of Voice in SL & Voice Etiquette
Iggy's Notes: Thanks for the lively participaton. I stupidly had my volume down low, so I missed some of the commentary in voice! Talk about a breach of etiquette.
Thanks go out to Kali for the voice-to-text transcription, to Kali & Margaret for voice support, and to Poderosafish & Sheila Webber for photos. Visit Olivia Hotshot's SLER group and VWER group to see more of our photos at Flickr.
Some Stand-Out Points and URLs:
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Hi everyone, and welcome to this weeks SL Education Roundtable, soon to be called the Virtual Worlds Education Roundtable.
hobbs Constantine: Hello all
Zotarah Shepherd: Hi Margaret
Birdie Newcomb: Hello
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: I'm Joe Essid, University of Richmond Dept. of Rhetoric & Communication Studies, filling in for AJ Brooks.
Kali Pizzaro: grab a seat folks
Oronoque Westland: if you can hear or not grab a seat at the table
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: These meetings are made possible by the Office of Information Technology at Montclair State University.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: We meet here each week at 2:30pm SLT for an hour. Normally our meetings are roundtable in style.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Today is a special voice Roundtable.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: For these meetings have SL voice on but please mute your mics unless you plan to talk.
Kali Pizzaro: hehe
Zotarah Shepherd: Yay Kali!
Friday Karu: Thanks, Kali.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: There are help signs along the back wall of the Amphitheater.
Kali Pizzaro: nae bother
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: If you are still having problems, please IM Kali Pizzaro or Margaret Michalski for assistance.
Kali Pizzaro: ;-)
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Our topic/theme today is Voice Etiquette and Using Voice in SL
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: The local chat is available as a back channel and I encourage everyone to use that to comment. The local chat can go by rather quickly.
Zotarah Shepherd: Hi Sheila
Sheila Yoshikawa: Hi Zo
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: That is why it is important that you IM your questions directly to me.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: As a hint, it is better to have "local chat" open for these meetings, it will help you follow the conversation better.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: You can find local chat by clicking COMMUNICATE in the bottom navigation bar and you'll find LOCAL CHAT as one of the tabs at the bottom of the Communicate window.
Kali Pizzaro: Iggy has a cold so excuse the sexy voice
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: This is a public meeting, so we do keep a transcript of what is said in local chat.
Kali Pizzaro: oops
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: For a copy of transcripts, please visit http://www.virtualworldsedu.info/slroundtable/
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: This week's transcript will appear by week's end, so please have a look!
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: If you are on Facebook, please join our group there - http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=44078263753&ref=share
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: We encourage photographs for our Flickr group as well. Thanks to Olivia Hotshot for putting together this group for the SLER, at http://www.flickr.com/groups/sler/
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: I encourage everyone to join the group and to take pictures from our meeting and add them to the group. Its a great way to show, and grow, our community.
Zotarah Shepherd: Yay Olivia
Olivia Hotshot grins
Friday Karu: Go Olivia!
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Some of our transcripts are now available transcribed into a sound file. You can find them in iTunes Podcasts by searching for VWER.
Olivia Hotshot: I just got here, Friday. =)
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Thanks to Margaret Michalski and the The Univiversity of Illinois at Chicago Department of Distant Medical Education for making this possible.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: The in-world group for the SL Education Roundtable can no longer be joined by new members. We are asking all new members to join the Virtual Worlds Education Roundtable group.
Kali Pizzaro: yeah Margaret
Olivia Hotshot: Awesome Margaret.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: We are also asking all existing members to leave the SL Education Roundtable group and join the Virtual Worlds Education Roundtable group.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: You can also find the new Virtual World Education Roundtable group on Facebook as well as being on Twitter as VWER.
Olivia Hotshot: Please come down from the stands and join us at the table everyone!
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Finally, if you have Mystitool on, or other similar tool, please put it to sleep or detach it for now. :-) It tends to lag things.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Shall we begin, as we usually do, by introducing ourselves in text chat?
Olivia Hotshot: Open seats to the left of Iggy by the ramp.
Margaret Michalski: Margaret Czart, Research Information Specialist at the University of Illinois at Chicago
Grinn Pidgeon: Dr. Barbara Pittman, Cuyahoga Community College, Cleveland, Ohio. Faculty Development/Instructional technology/English teacher/almost senior citizen
Birdie Newcomb: Birdie Newborn, publisher
Oronoque Westland: Roberta Kilkenny, Hunter College, New York
Sheila Yoshikawa: Sheila Yoshikawa/ Webber, Sheffield University, UK
Friday Karu: Friday Karu, CSU, Chico
Kali Pizzaro: Evelyn McElhinney Nurse Lecturer Glasgow Cali
Zotarah Shepherd: I am a MA in Education (technology and psychology) student at Sonoma State University in northern California working an a curriculum project: Teaching and Learning Life-Skills in Second Life. I am working on an Immersive Interactive Educational build about Life-skills on an educational sim called Ralanora.
Profdan Netizen: Dan Holt, Lansing Community College, Lansing, MI. I teach writing, first year comp and creative writing.
Olivia Hotshot: Ann Steckel, Cal State Chico, educator & techie
Ricardo Pessoa: Ricardo Cruz, from Portugal, Porto, student of science communication, Portuguesa and English teacher
Kim Chihuly: Kim Gregson, Ithaca Collage, Ithaca NY
Aquiel Aero: Henry Ford Community College, Dearborn, Michigan
Lolly Dovgal: Hello, I'm Laura Sederberg from CSU, Chico, learning more everyday, thanks to Olivia Hotshot.
hobbs Constantine: Heather Dodds, Western Governors University, Community Facilitator Math Science Education
Miki Zeritonga: Miki Zeritonga, a virtual student
Kavon Zenovka: Kae Novak, Front Range Community College Colorado
Auden Breguet: Doug Dechow, Chapman University, Orange, CA
Zdenek Buchsbaum: Tomas Bouda, Czech republic, Student, writing Mgr. thesis on VW and education
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: anyone else?
Libor Ibor: student LIS, Czech republic
Olivia Hotshot: It is a SLER meeting time - we need a few more helpers.
Olivia Hotshot: I have party clothes for everyone too
Olivia Hotshot: Yes.
Kali Pizzaro: Please Im Olivia if you could help with organising the party on the 29th December
Olivia Hotshot: Tuxedos and ball gowns
Olivia Hotshot: Thanks!
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Do you use voice or voice call or both? often / rarely / never…sound off in text chat.
Olivia Hotshot: Zotarah has graciously agreed to me the lead builder for it.
Olivia Hotshot: Often
Birdie Newcomb: rarely
Zotarah Shepherd: Let me know if you want to go shopping for a ball gown. *grins*
Friday Karu: often
Aquiel Aero: often
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: often
Oronoque Westland: voice call?
Grinn Pidgeon: rarely
Margaret Michalski: rarely
Kim Chihuly: rarely
Kavon Zenovka: often
hobbs Constantine: rarely
Zdenek Buchsbaum: often
Zotarah Shepherd: Rarely
Ricardo Pessoa: rarely
Miki Zeritonga: Often, when in a language class. Hardly ever otherwise
Kali Pizzaro: sometimes
Lolly Dovgal: Rarely
Profdan Netizen: sometimes?
Kali Pizzaro: between offices to work in SL
Libor Ibor: often
Profdan Netizen: More than rarely, less than often.
Zotarah Shepherd: I listen to voice but rarely speak in voice.
Sheila Yoshikawa: sometimes
Oronoque Westland: what is voice call, pls?
Kali Pizzaro: You can call a individual or group avatar
Kim Chihuly nods in agreement with Zotarah
Friday Karu: that in itself is telling
Aquiel Aero: is like a private IM but in voice oro
Oronoque Westland: like a voice IM, ok, thanks
Olivia Hotshot: Voice call = Linden term for using voice in private chat.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: If so when?
Profdan Netizen: when students have working mics.
Birdie Newcomb: small gathering
Margaret Michalski: small group of people
Oronoque Westland: when in a tour group
Kali Pizzaro: Working at a distance
Olivia Hotshot: Also - does anyone here use the in-world telephone number option?
Ricardo Pessoa: small group situation
Friday Karu: with colleagues from afar--one-to-one or one-to-two
Kavon Zenovka: most often with students during their inworld time
Zotarah Shepherd: Mostly with friends opr if I am doing a presentation.
Zdenek Buchsbaum: communication with partners in project, konferences
Oronoque Westland: rrrrring
Miki Zeritonga: It is an extra cost service.
Kali Pizzaro: does it not cost Olivia
Sheila Yoshikawa: voice - mostly either when giving a presentation or sometimes when trying to discuss something complicated with one other person (though more often use text)
Zotarah Shepherd: I just don't like to relog to plug in my headset.
Olivia Hotshot: use it for presentation, meeting, teaching, chats, etc.
Libor Ibor: one-to-one or small teamwork
Friday Karu: I have heard of it
Olivia Hotshot: Yes, it costs - will get info in one sec
Oronoque Westland: yes, ZO, USB headset is a pain
Zotarah Shepherd: Skype for me is free
Kali Pizzaro: but voice call does not
Miki Zeritonga: It is actually a Vivox service, I think
Zotarah Shepherd: My headset is not USB now.
Kali Pizzaro: As we talk about this Iggy has not had his students use voice
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: How do we teach students about voice?
Friday Karu: carefully
Friday Karu: :-)
Kavon Zenovka: part of their regular orientation
Ricardo Pessoa: never, but I'm planning to
Zotarah Shepherd: I mentor some teachers about using voice
Sheila Yoshikawa: i haven't used it with students, we use text with them
Friday Karu: You need a management system approach
Kim Chihuly: now that more of my students are on mac laptops - i hope to start incorporating it more
Aquiel Aero: I use text with students so far
LoCE99Ch8 Morpork: oops
Profdan Netizen: Biggest issue--use headset, or earphones with a mic.
Kavon Zenovka: But these students have used Elluminate before so not that different
Kali Pizzaro: i have not usd it yet but aim to in the future
Birdie Newcomb: I'm still confused about push-to-talk
Ricardo Pessoa: maybe a screen cast
Kavon Zenovka: Student presentations
Ricardo Pessoa: it's a pre-requisite
Kavon Zenovka: at the beginning
Olivia Hotshot: I teach voice skills to profs as a part of my job for SL as well as lecture capture and webinars.
Kali Pizzaro: Kavon is this a level one skill or is it something you learn later
Friday Karu: Yes. Olivia taught me.
LoCE99Ch8 Morpork: Insight Virtual College gives a good how to class.
Ricardo Pessoa: maybe with boards too
Ricardo Pessoa: maybe by modeling
Friday Karu: I have used it well with other profs near and far.
Zotarah Shepherd: Be polite. The SL culture varies when it is social or educational.
Kavon Zenovka: level one - but to tell you the truth we didn't put much thought into it
Miki Zeritonga: The classes I am involved in are specifically about language, so voice skills are taught right up front
Olivia Hotshot: To me it is a skill many people have before they get to SL.
Kavon Zenovka: we also teach them to text while the speaker is talking
Kali Pizzaro: Iggy- Why would we want students to use voice instead of text?
Friday Karu: speed and efficiency
Zotarah Shepherd: Good manners.
Miki Zeritonga: pronunciation
Aquiel Aero: if they are making a presentation
Profdan Netizen: Faster, esp. for slower typists.
Margaret Michalski: to prevent misinterpretation
Ricardo Pessoa: foreign language learning
Zotarah Shepherd: I want to be sure it is really the right student too.
Friday Karu: many of my students are K-12 teachers some of them older--typing speed
Kavon Zenovka: for us - they have to present their research findings
Olivia Hotshot: It replicates RL communication.
Sheila Yoshikawa: some international students are happier speaking rather than writing
Kavon Zenovka: this is in a philosophy and sociology class
Profdan Netizen: I want to use voice for students to read out loud their writing.
Friday Karu: immediacy and efficiency
Margaret Michalski: a tone of a voice says a lot
Kali Pizzaro: good point Shiela
Friday Karu: more expressive
Ricardo Pessoa: PalUP, plz take a sit ;)
Sheila Yoshikawa: also dyslexic people
Miki Zeritonga: I know some people are bashful about their poor English pronounciation and would prefer to type.
Oronoque Westland: to develop presentation skills, voice with SpeakEasy HUD
PalUP Ling: hey Ricardo
Zotarah Shepherd: I type faster now using text.
Friday Karu: can emphasize point more efficiently in less time
Kali Pizzaro: IO- tone of voice is a good point
Lolly Dovgal: I got booted off the server. But I came back.
Margaret Michalski: you can also easily explain yourself
Zotarah Shepherd: awww I like to hear accents.
Sheila Yoshikawa: yes, it varies depending in the country
Miki Zeritonga: Accent is a particular problem in Japan. It is why so many are interested in classes.
Sheila Yoshikawa: for e.g. Chinese students writing is more problematic
Ricardo Pessoa: accents are a part of it, I guess
Sheila Yoshikawa: since the character set is different
Olivia Hotshot: 34 people here for the record
Sheila Yoshikawa: and teh grammar totally different
Kali Pizzaro: IO- great point Shiela - non Latin keyboard can be a deterrent
Miki Zeritonga: In Japan, all keyboards have latin characters, and everyone learns English in school. But they have very little chance to practice.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: What are the most annoying voice habits you encounter?
Miki Zeritonga: Not using PTT
Oronoque Westland: cross talking
Olivia Hotshot: People who eat while on a mic.
Kali Pizzaro: feedback
Kim Chihuly: open mikes = echo
Zdenek Buchsbaum: echo
Aquiel Aero: people who dont know how to turn off their mic
hobbs Constantine: leaving mic on
Whide Rhode: louid noises in the background
Miki Zeritonga: So we hear the dog barking, the kid screaming, pizza delivery guy
Profdan Netizen: Keeping a mic open, talking to others in RL.
LoCE99Ch8 Morpork: ums, ers
Kali Pizzaro: open mikes
Birdie Newcomb: echo
Sheila Yoshikawa: lol Olivia - what's PTT?
Margaret Michalski: interrupting
Kali Pizzaro: mics
Miki Zeritonga: Push To Talk
Kali Pizzaro: What is ptt
Kali Pizzaro: ah
Sheila Yoshikawa: obviously i can't be using it!
Zotarah Shepherd: When people forget to turn Voice off yes and you hear an echo
LoCE99Ch8 Morpork: sound quality in general
Sheila Yoshikawa: ah
Friday Karu: people thinking as they speak---long pauses, hmmmmmmms, umms, etc. which holds up the talking for others
Lolly Dovgal: I find it much easier to stay connected, integrated in the conversation with voice over text chat.
Miki Zeritonga: I just hold down middle mouse button
Olivia Hotshot: I describe it as using a walkie talkie kind of thing to help folks.
Kali Pizzaro: IO- so if you do not like ptt you prefer toggling?
Zotarah Shepherd: Toggling works if you remember to do it.
Miki Zeritonga: But I have noisy dogs
Ricardo Pessoa: Lolly, I agree with you
Jarrad Voom: push to talk
Friday Karu: I agree Olivia.
Profdan Netizen: that's a good idea, Olivia.
Sheila Yoshikawa: yes i prefer toggling i think ...
Olivia Hotshot: Thank you.
Kali Pizzaro: io- toggling can let you know when you are live
PalUP Ling: I prefer PTT
Olivia Hotshot: I teach Voice all the time - and it helps.
Zotarah Shepherd: If I was teaching a class I would use Voice
Kali Pizzaro: do you think voice gives away a bit more of your avatar personality
Profdan Netizen: lol
Friday Karu: smile
Olivia Hotshot: I have been at talks where they forget to press.
Friday Karu: me, too, Olivia
Olivia Hotshot: If anyone uses voice please state name and then talk.
Margaret Michalski: We are making Kalis job easier: )
Kali Pizzaro: indeed
Lolly Dovgal: It's the MIC.
Kali Pizzaro: shout from the rooftops folks
Lolly Dovgal: Fear of being a DJ.
Birdie Newcomb: Always good to check if people are hearing you
Miki Zeritonga: I got over that doing Flight Simulator in multi-player mode.
Sheila Yoshikawa: at the moment, for example, it seems more of a leap to start using it
Sheila Yoshikawa: moment
Oronoque Westland: I sometimes talk when I am Oro, but my ALTs don't talk
Olivia Hotshot: I have found people use Skype personally and for some reason do not relate those skills to SL or teaching in general.
Zotarah Shepherd: hmmm my alts don't talk either.
Kali Pizzaro: it gets rid of the typos and the spelling
Oronoque Westland: some of my ALTs are male
Profdan Netizen: Skype, though, is more like a phone, less like a walki talkie?
Zotarah Shepherd: SKYPE is free
Birdie Newcomb: Is it still free?
Zotarah Shepherd: It depends
Olivia Hotshot: Not free to call out
Zdenek Buchsbaum: reliable
Olivia Hotshot: to phones
Ricardo Pessoa: it's a different environment
Zotarah Shepherd: You are clear to me now Iggy
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Is Skype a superior alternative to SL voice? Is so, why? Are there other options?
Olivia Hotshot: There is Skype and Skype out.
Friday Karu: are the voice chats recorded in SL?
Miki Zeritonga: When talking to multiple people, voice is spatialized. This helps distinguish who is talking, and enhances the sense of space
PalUP Ling: it's an immersive experience
Venus Quintessa: more realistic
Birdie Newcomb: just to other Skype numbers?
Zotarah Shepherd: As clear as SKYPE
Margaret Michalski: You can also use video calls with Skype
Margaret Michalski: that is if it works on your pc
Olivia Hotshot: I think Shoutcast is superior if one is giving a presentation to a lot of people.
Zotarah Shepherd: Skype tends to work the same as SL
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: I'll add that in text
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: with every application you add to SL
Kali Pizzaro: IO- Any time you have to put another application onto sl you make it less immersive
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: you lessen the immersion
Kali Pizzaro: sorry
Ignatius Onomatopoeia grins at Kali :)
Miki Zeritonga: Voice quality is about like a phone call. You would not want to do music collaboration over it
Kim Chihuly: we use video skype with a student who's in Italy this semester (in a rl class, not SL) - works great
PalUP Ling: yep
PalUP Ling: lol
Zotarah Shepherd: hehe
Miki Zeritonga: Get a voice-shifter.
Kali Pizzaro: io- Students were having enough problems with level one skills
Lolly Dovgal: No...
Kavon Zenovka: Or can you record some of the lines?
Kali Pizzaro: so he did not use it
Miki Zeritonga: Oh yes. My Logitech headphones count on a driver in Windows to do that
Kali Pizzaro: Io- it is useful to capture text
Zotarah Shepherd: Where do we get those Miki?
Kavon Zenovka: We've used it for some role-plays.
Zotarah Shepherd: It would be good for theater
Miki Zeritonga: Logitech G35
Kavon Zenovka: 30 sec audio
Zotarah Shepherd: Thanks
Friday Karu: You could also use Jing.
Miki Zeritonga: Costs about US$120
Kali Pizzaro: it is good for collaboration - working on a project at a distance
Zotarah Shepherd: What's Jing?
Friday Karu: Jing Project is free, but you can pay for premium.
Zotarah Shepherd: eeps expensive for me
Margaret Michalski: I have a free trial and I really like it. The free version can record for only 5 min
Olivia Hotshot: It is a screen recorder - like Camtasia
Kali Pizzaro: only can record for 5 mins in the free version
Friday Karu: It allows you to do a screen capture in image or video.
Miki Zeritonga: Also Fraps
Olivia Hotshot: using it to record SL is REALLY not great.
Miki Zeritonga: Fraps records Windows screen video, and sound
Kali Pizzaro: Io- if you have any urls put them in the text chat
Kim Chihuly: Dumb question probably - how do you get the Skype audio into SL?
Friday Karu: http://www.jingproject.com/
Olivia Hotshot: Yes, but Fraps is PC only
Profdan Netizen: Which Olivia, Jing or Fraps?
Miki Zeritonga: www.fraps.com
Olivia Hotshot: Jing is clunky to record SL.
Profdan Netizen: Agreed.
Olivia Hotshot: Very low frame rate.
Profdan Netizen: Have you tried Camtasia?
Olivia Hotshot: Use Audio Hihjack
Friday Karu: the free version of Jing goes for 5 min.
Kali Pizzaro: IO- Kim not a dumb question for paisley beach?
Profdan Netizen: OK
Margaret Michalski: http://www.fraps.com/
Olivia Hotshot: Camtasia is what i said above - techsmith
Kali Pizzaro: IO- Dan you have a url for that
Olivia Hotshot: Camtasia is now Mac and PC
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: we used Skype well for the Paisley Beebe recording
PalUP Ling: SnapzX Pro for MacOS
Profdan Netizen: Addiction is when something comes before nearly everything else in a person’s life. Many times, people who are addicted to something let it take over their lives.
Kali Pizzaro: oh beebe sorry
Profdan Netizen: Oops!
Profdan Netizen: Something from my clipboard!
Profdan Netizen: Here's the URL: http://www.techsmith.com/camtasia.asp
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Dan, I think your and my students are working on similar projects
Friday Karu: So I am testing it now with Jing.
Sheila Yoshikawa: that doesn't happen in voice (random copying) ;-)
Olivia Hotshot: The Voice for Games Voice Chat for Games and Virtual Worlds - http://www.vivox.com/index.php
Kali Pizzaro: IO- i say that as they want to write about addiction
Kali Pizzaro: Io- next question is related
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: `When is voice best used in a simulation? When text chat?
Birdie Newcomb: log
Kali Pizzaro: To capture the text to reflect with the students
Lolly Dovgal: Quicker need for responses.
Profdan Netizen: When not everyone in a small group has a mic--text.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: right--logging is so easy w/ text
Kali Pizzaro: or for data for research
Marc Rexen: RP seems to be more realistic with text.
Zotarah Shepherd: Social events are good with voice though a bit chaotic
Friday Karu: Text is better for short, quick responses and queries.
Miki Zeritonga: People with speech impairments
PalUP Ling: Voice for conferences
Zotarah Shepherd: Most RP sims only use text
Ricardo Pessoa: voice for RP language lessons
Kali Pizzaro: IO- Good point Dan my students did not buy headsets
Olivia Hotshot: Headsets can be used on the go.
Marc Rexen: Imagination seems to be an important aspect.
Sheila Yoshikawa: yes, reflection, or otherwise when you want people to be able to get people to look back at what people have just said
PalUP Ling: Voice for unidirectional sessions
Miki Zeritonga: Bluetooth
Kali Pizzaro: want to be wirelesss
Profdan Netizen: I found a quick and dirty way, though was to have them use headphones/earbuds, and the laptop mic.
Zdenek Buchsbaum: when somebody is deaf from your group
Birdie Newcomb: Can one expect reasonable typing on an iPhone or Blackberry?
Olivia Hotshot: Funny cause lots use them on this campus.
Miki Zeritonga: Netbooks with bluetooth headset
Zotarah Shepherd: I like Kindle on computer rather then a book
Kali Pizzaro: yes Sheia if you can look back for feedback
Kali Pizzaro: IO- on my campus gamers are a minority
Oronoque Westland: when I DO NOT want to be quoted, voice is better
Miki Zeritonga: heh heh
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: good point!
Ignatius Onomatopoeia grins
Kavon Zenovka: That will be a big question - because I think our next consumer demand in eucation will be mobile and I can't pull up SL on an iPhone
Kali Pizzaro: yeah
Zotarah Shepherd: Earbuds are light and easy to carry around with a blackberry etc.
Miki Zeritonga: And Linden Labs does not record it either
Zotarah Shepherd: I don't have those but looks simpler
Kavon Zenovka: or anything else mobile?
Miki Zeritonga: Next generation Nook/Kindle
Kali Pizzaro: IO- it may not be an iphone we may see the emergence of more portable netbooks
Kavon Zenovka: I hope so
Sheila Yoshikawa: actually i use text chat for my discussions that i organise on infolit ischool, mostly, as there is usually at least one person who is having problems getting voice working - for technical reasons or because they are very you - text seems more inclusive
Olivia Hotshot: Here is the phone call option (with assigned number) for SL - AvaLine: Dial an Avatar - https://blogs.secondlife.com/community/features/blog/2009/08/19/bye-bye-beta-avaline-dial-an-avatar-is-now-available-to-all-avatars
Sheila Yoshikawa: very *new*
Kali Pizzaro: who knows what the next technology will be
Kavon Zenovka: Even Metaplace
Miki Zeritonga: There are clients that run well on netbooks, if you turn graphics off
Zotarah Shepherd: Save trees, go Kindle.
Olivia Hotshot: Unity 3D is coming out soon for iPhone inworld.
Kavon Zenovka: couldn't get it to go
Zotarah Shepherd: nope
Kali Pizzaro: IO- does anyone run metaplace on a smartphone
PalUP Ling: yep, iPhone
Kavon Zenovka: Flash blocked it\
Olivia Hotshot: Reaction Grid will demo it for us when we go in February.
Sheila Yoshikawa: still a good number of people having problems with bandwidth e.g. accessing from home, when they aren't allowed to access from work
Birdie Newcomb: I went there today -- looks primitive
Kali Pizzaro: IO- This group will be meeting in metaplace
Kali Pizzaro: in January
Profdan Netizen: cool
Olivia Hotshot: It is like a comic.
Olivia Hotshot: I posted the phone call info above.
Kali Pizzaro: io- I am not sure of the educational potential yet. it is nota s immersive
Zotarah Shepherd: Me is becoming a SL snob. lol
Kavon Zenovka: We are using it for our Multi-graphic design class
Kavon Zenovka: the intro
Kali Pizzaro: ok
Marc Rexen: Side-by-side.
Margaret Michalski: If it can be logged then people will switch to voice
Friday Karu: SL is so visual that I do not think voice will dominate.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Will voice replace text chat in SL? Or not? Why?
Aquiel Aero: I think text will coexist
Whide Rhode: similar to the radio, text will not disappear
Kavon Zenovka: I hope it will be combination of voice and constant text
Ricardo Pessoa: mostly text and voice when needed I guess
Birdie Newcomb: text will continue even with the clumsy notecards,
Kali Pizzaro: if it is stable it is great. however there is still times when i want to capture the text
Aquiel Aero: because voice is not always reliable
Auden Breguet: What is the role of text outside of simulations?
Miki Zeritonga: Voice is used considerably less than Linden says it is. The numbers are so high because of noobs walking around with it on, not realizing it is there
Aquiel Aero: nebraska
Sheila Yoshikawa: yes, stability is a key issue
Birdie Newcomb: Ah.
Zdenek Buchsbaum: I think no, for remember things, which have been said
Olivia Hotshot: It is called Nebraska
Profdan Netizen: I think it will take over when it is as reliable as text. But when that will be.
Lolly Dovgal: That's interesting.
Olivia Hotshot: It is still the name.
Miki Zeritonga: Second Life Enterprise
PalUP Ling: voice is not an option working with avatars, IMO
Whide Rhode: I suspect text gives people more anonymity
Sheila Yoshikawa: people are using text and texting each other all the time outside virtual worlds
Zotarah Shepherd: Backchat is great for a presentation and that would be too confusing if everyone was in Voice.
Aquiel Aero: I went to the NMC conf a few weeks ago and we used Nebraska
Profdan Netizen: That's a good point, Sheila.
Sheila Yoshikawa: texting using mobiles, texting on facebook
Birdie Newcomb: You can text into SL without being logged in
Kali Pizzaro: Does it give away too much of the avatar personality
Oronoque Westland: Greek chorus
Miki Zeritonga: Voice allows multiple speakers
Profdan Netizen: Yes, only good for small group.
Zotarah Shepherd: hehe
Marc Rexen: Text still carries the 50% miss rate on tone...voice is much less prone to that.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: voice just does not play well in big groups, yet
Kali Pizzaro: Who
PalUP Ling: text based communication remains the strongest option
Zotarah Shepherd: Marc
Olivia Hotshot: Please state who you are if going on voice.
Grinn Pidgeon: voice can give away your sex if you happen to be in SL as the opposite sex
Kali Pizzaro: indeed
Margaret Michalski: I think if someone states in text that they have something to say it could be done.
Birdie Newcomb: or transgender
Kavon Zenovka: It's just like F2F - we learn not to interrupt
Whide Rhode: until there are better facial and body cues, free use of voice in a large crowd is subject to the problems people stated.
Kali Pizzaro: yes
Birdie Newcomb: it's a different etiquette
Olivia Hotshot: Lots of voice modulators out there to mask gender
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: I wonder about your experiences with etiquette
Lolly Dovgal: Any built into SL?
Miki Zeritonga: If you speak ENglish with a lisp, it is hard to be convincing as a Gor chieftan
Zotarah Shepherd: I like that you can change the sound of your voice
Kali Pizzaro: how ethical is that Olivia if using for education
PalUP Ling: the rhythm of voice-based communication is not SL-type, IMO
Miki Zeritonga: DO not hum
Oronoque Westland: seats with hand raise
Olivia Hotshot: Kali, not ethical if made to fool people/students/colleagues
Birdie Newcomb: Lag creates multiple threads at the same time.
Kali Pizzaro: indeed
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: What are some basic rules of voice-chat etiquette?
Profdan Netizen: and how is voice etiquette in SL different from f2f voice etiquette?
Kavon Zenovka: Actually with students they are a bit hesitant to use it at first - so very polite
Birdie Newcomb: Takes practice to follow just one text line
Marc Rexen: The two go hand-in-hand, but it takes time to pick up the timing of when and what to say to get the desired effect.
Olivia Hotshot: BUT, good if used for reading parts to a play for example.
Birdie Newcomb: But it also enlarges the conversation
Kali Pizzaro: yep
Kali Pizzaro: got you
Birdie Newcomb: With speakers, IMing your friends is a great benefit
Margaret Michalski: Doesn't it depend ho well the group know each other? If you know each other well then you fairly know when someone is done taking.
Kali Pizzaro: Olivia
Zotarah Shepherd: I get voice IM requests sometimes when my mic is not on, so I like people to IM me in text first so I can relog.
Friday Karu: acknowledgment, common courtesy, and clear intention
Kavon Zenovka: with our students we have had to urge them to text when there is a speaker - were told that they felt it wasn't polite at first to type when someone was talking.
Olivia Hotshot: Good one Friday.
PalUP Ling: well, well, about etiquette we don't care so much here in Europe, folks ;)
Marc Rexen: It is a good way of allowing a conversation that's interesting to continue, while interjecting thoughts, content, facts, even ideas.
Kali Pizzaro: Sorry
Kali Pizzaro: repeat hehe
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: :)
Kavon Zenovka: we told them that if the speaker didn't get any back channel they would think the students were asleep.
Birdie Newcomb: I usually end up printing out a session to get clear what was said in response to what
Margaret Michalski: Try coming to my house: )
Sheila Yoshikawa: tut tut not here in Britain we don't lol
Kali Pizzaro: Is everyone comfortable with the sound of their own voice in SL
PalUP Ling: sorry, can u repeat it?
Marc Rexen: I never hear mine?
LoCE99Ch8 Morpork: Video teaching voice etiquette at http://torley.com/files/vidtuts/VOICE-CHAT-Etiquette.mp4.
Olivia Hotshot: wonders if Iggy can hear me.
Zotarah Shepherd: Ann wants to say something in Voice
Whide Rhode: sorry, that link doesn't work
Friday Karu: I think Olivia has asked to speak.
Whide Rhode: oh, never mind
Zotarah Shepherd: Hear you fine Olivia
Whide Rhode: (trailing period)
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: I'm shutting up so I can hear Olivia
Lolly Dovgal: VWER
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: sure
Olivia Hotshot: Thank you.
Zotarah Shepherd: Thanks Olivia
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: I had volume way down
Friday Karu: Good example of voice use
Kali Pizzaro: Olivia-If anyone is not a member of the vwer im olivia. If you want to join the committee im olivia
Birdie Newcomb: what committee?
Kali Pizzaro: IO_ volume was down oops
Miki Zeritonga: Boo! :)
Zotarah Shepherd: For the party Birdie
Kali Pizzaro: IO- is voice too complex
Zotarah Shepherd: VWER party
Marc Rexen: But it's ultimately simple and devolves to the background and let's you talk productively, with many, for long times.
Zotarah Shepherd: We just have to be more aware
Kali Pizzaro: Io- His students are not great with technology and can not be annoyed with keeping everything open or are not sure how to.
Sheila Yoshikawa: listening skills!
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: go ahead
Zotarah Shepherd: Avaline?
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: LL product is Avaline
Marty Snowpaw is Online
Zotarah Shepherd: Thanks
Kali Pizzaro: Olivia- The linden is called avaline you can be called in Sl. Might be good for students who are not in LS but still want to be involved
Kali Pizzaro: However, it does cost
Profdan Netizen: Students have to pay, Olivia?
Profdan Netizen: Or just the person who has the number?
Kali Pizzaro: IO- cost can be a problem for students. How much does it cost Olivia.
Profdan Netizen: Anybody use SLim client?
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: 14,400L a month????? [correction: per year, but you do get the following goodie--oh, pinch me!]
Kali Pizzaro: Olivia- pretty pricey - each connection costs 15 hundred lindens a month and other tariffs if yearly etc
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: yow
Margaret Michalski: Wow, no way my institution would do that.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: oooh Hula-dancing Linden Bear [Avaline users get a free bear]
Miki Zeritonga: That is an outrageous price, when compared to a full VOIP line
Kim Chihuly chuckles..what a premium! dancing bear
Kali Pizzaro: You can get a hula bear free - woop woop noooooot
Profdan Netizen: echo
Oronoque Westland: do raised hands or light bulbs help when you have voice with a group?
Miki Zeritonga: 2.0 will change the GUI, but I doubt the experience will change much
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Good Q, Oronoque
Marc Rexen: No, folks just learn how to talk.
Kali Pizzaro: I am getting feedback already
Margaret Michalski: Yes
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: @Marc, we don't have the cues here, though
Kali Pizzaro: yep
Marc Rexen: Silence is the cue...:)
Zotarah Shepherd: They don't seem to work well Oro
Birdie Newcomb: Used to be party lines
Sheila Yoshikawa: and the green waves above people's heads
Olivia Hotshot: Iggy - it is the whole toggle thing. =)
Friday Karu: being a good listener helps in understanding the entire process
Profdan Netizen: But we have significant experience now with telephone.
Margaret Michalski: cues are key to brining not only etiquette but interest to the conversation.
Marc Rexen: I must get a half-dozen to a dozen folks talking every week, and they pick up the cues quick.
PalUP Ling: lol, can you imagine voice based conversation here in Portugal, in Spain or in Italy?
Zotarah Shepherd: You can get used to anything you use a lot
Kali Pizzaro: IO - maybe we need to look for the green lines or wait for the silence
Kali Pizzaro: yes Z
Oronoque Westland: if silence is the only cue, the more polite AVs may never speak up
Zotarah Shepherd: No voice translators either
Olivia Hotshot: As a moderator you have to be aware when others want the mic and manage the interaction.
Kali Pizzaro: IO- Why would it be more difficult in Europe
Sheila Yoshikawa: @oronoque that's true face to face as well
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Let me sum up some points made already
PalUP Ling: southern countries tend to be more 'expressive'
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: --Voice might be easier as we learn the cues
Birdie Newcomb: or talk with their hands
Oronoque Westland: no pinching in SL
Miki Zeritonga: Can't wave arms around?
PalUP Ling: there's always a lot of 'noise' in the conversation
Birdie Newcomb: talk
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: --Voice can work well for some second-language groups
Kali Pizzaro: if i spoke at my normal speed you may not be able to understand me
Sheila Yoshikawa: The critical incident technique consists of a set of procedures for collecting direct observations are we going to try mass voice at all in THIS meeting???
Kavon Zenovka: why not - there's a lot of gestures we're not using
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: --Voice may not work well for those who are another gender in SL
Sheila Yoshikawa: sorry - random pasting!
Sheila Yoshikawa: lol
Kali Pizzaro: Shiela - behave
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: --Voice is complex for some of us, not so for others (re: Marc's point)
Olivia Hotshot: Shelia between you and ProfDan we are learning lots.
PalUP Ling: I recently made focus-group with the Portuguese community in SL
Olivia Hotshot: =)
Miki Zeritonga: In my RL job I need to work with people in India. I always prefer text communication rather than phone, because they speak VERY rapidly, and someitmes have incomprehensible accents. But their written English is mostly excellent.
Sheila Yoshikawa: bit i meant to say was - are we going to try mass voice at all in THIS meeting???
Whide Rhode: it would be a very useful experiment to try using mass voice here, and see if we can't develop some techniques and standards for how it could work.
PalUP Ling: and 95% just want to use voice for conferences...
Friday Karu: modeling
Olivia Hotshot: Modeling the best practices is best.
Friday Karu: listening and modeling
Kali Pizzaro: Marc- you just show them how it is done and folk soon get the hang of it as the conversation flows
Olivia Hotshot: <-- Agrees with Marc.
Zotarah Shepherd: We tried that once Sheila and it was a bit chaotic
Profdan Netizen: I've found the same with a small group of students.
Margaret Michalski: Outside of us I have not met anyone in SL using voice
Kali Pizzaro: Marc- once you get the echo sorted it is great
Olivia Hotshot: Iggy may i speak?
Kali Pizzaro: i use it between offices
Miki Zeritonga: SL has a steep learning curve
Kali Pizzaro: when i am working on projects in sl
Kavon Zenovka: For us - they are students who may have used voice on Elluminate or other webinar product
Zotarah Shepherd: pfft some teachers think email is too high tech.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: well said--low stakes
Kali Pizzaro: Olivia- I wanted to add. use voice in a low stakes environment
Marc Rexen: Agree...no pressure really helps...I'll mention that it's just a game and nobody is keeping score -- this usually relaxes them.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: true--they had no problems at Burning Life because they wanted to hear the music
Kali Pizzaro: this gives the student to use voice in a safe environment
Lolly Dovgal: I agree, low stakes are winners for learning.
Friday Karu: less risk provides low stakes which supports the trying and quick learning
Miki Zeritonga: Yes, introduce the technology outside the formal classroom
Zotarah Shepherd: That is also why play is a good way to teach - lower stress
Friday Karu: well said, Olivia
Sheila Yoshikawa: yes good point
Olivia Hotshot: Thanks.
Zotarah Shepherd: Thanks Olivia
Kali Pizzaro: Olivia- If it is in a high stakes environment it can put pressure on the student
Marc Rexen: Suggests the proverbial "get-together" before the class actually starts to sort things out.
Kali Pizzaro: is that ok Olivia
Olivia Hotshot: Perfect Kali.
Olivia Hotshot: I can add to it Iggy.
Profdan Netizen: Also sent to SLED.
Margaret Michalski: http://www.facebook.com/l/c5add;vwerlogodesign.wikispaces.com/
PalUP Ling: I'm sorry, I have to go :( thanks for the opportunity
Kali Pizzaro: IO- what has worked well for my classes. sequential learning- as they scaffold the knowledge they become more confident
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: thank you PalUP
Ricardo Pessoa: bye PalUP!
Kali Pizzaro: Olivia- the logo competition is open we want to use it all over. Check out the rules. However, you need a flicker account. Two sizes ensure you check them before submiting
Kali Pizzaro: Olivia- If you have students who want to submit great or anyone in the group cheers
Olivia Hotshot: http://www.flickr.com/groups/vwer_logo/
Kali Pizzaro: just me i think
Miki Zeritonga: Here?
Margaret Michalski: Excellent!
Kali Pizzaro: John Miller
Kali Pizzaro: and scott deiner
Kali Pizzaro: fab
Kali Pizzaro: Olivia
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: 1st of the Month Meeting - Clinical Simulations (Coincides with World AIDS Day)
Kali Pizzaro: woop woop
Miki Zeritonga: Will there be demonstrations?
Margaret Michalski: I will be here for voice
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Kali is our moderator!
Miki Zeritonga: Maybe pix
Kali Pizzaro: we have two confirmed and maybe Dave Taylor
Kali Pizzaro: i will be interviewing
Kali Pizzaro: but will accept questions via IM
Zotarah Shepherd: I hope Scott Merrick will be here next week too.
Kali Pizzaro: mmm
Kali Pizzaro: Olivia- on the 27th world aids day will be celebrated in Sl
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Virtual Worlds Story Project is very involved this year
Kali Pizzaro: Notecard can be given via Im to Olivia
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Marty and Jenaia
Lolly Dovgal: Thanks for a great session today, Iggy.