Transcript of Second Life Education Roundtable: Nov. 10, 2009
Topic: Information Literacy. Guest Moderator: Lori Bell (SL: Lorelei Junot) and Special Guest: Sheila Yoshikawa
Iggy's Note: Special thanks to our moderator and presenter, who had to put up with problems relating to the Roundtable. They carried on admirably. Thanks to Grinn, Olivia, and ponderosafish for photos of "the night of the tiny table."
Thanks to Kali for providing it for us until I could buy us a new Mystitool table from Xstreetsl.com.
Links for this transcript are both good and too plentiful to pull to the top; it's been a busy few weeks IRL so I ask your forebearance. Scroll away and treasures await!
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Hi everyone, and welcome to this weeks SL Education Roundtable.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: These meetings are made possible by the Office of Information Technology at Montclair State University.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: We meet here each week at 2:30pm SLT for an hour. Our meeting today is on "Information Literacy"
Sheila Yoshikawa: if you bought it, it should expand
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: and I want to welcome our Guest Moderator: Lori Bell (SL: Lorelei Junot) and Special Guest: Sheila Yoshikawa
Chimera Cosmos: then it should keep stretching
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: The SL Education Roundtable is a forum to educate and inform the community about issues that are important and relevant to education.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: The views and opinions of any of our special guests or visitors do not necessarily represent those who volunteer or organize these meetings, or of Montclair State University,
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: The College of Humanities, Social Sciences, or Office of Information Technology.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Our meetings are roundtable style, so those in the theater seats please come down and join us at the table.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Our magic expanding table will always have an empty seat, located closest to the ramp.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: LOL to that bit
Olivia Hotshot: good thing we all get along.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: This is a public meeting, so we do keep a transcript of what is said in local chat.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: For a copy of older transcripts, please visit http://sler-transcripts.wikispaces.com and for more recent transcripts, please visit http://www.virtualworldsedu.info/slroundtable/
Chimera Cosmos likes it cozy LOL
hobbs Constantine: the tiny table
Grinn Pidgeon: we look the teacup ride
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: get a pic :)
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: I'm Iggy, the scribe for this group, and I'm hosting while AJ Brooks is away. If you've not seen the transcripts I run, you should check them out - they are a great information asset.
hobbs Constantine: the kids table
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Information on FUTURE MEETINGS is available from the notecard giver on the West wall of the Amphitheater.
Olivia Hotshot: got one
Sheila Yoshikawa: I don't think Lorelei is inworld
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Thanks to Olivia Hotshot for putting together a Flickr group for the SLER. I encourage everyone to join the group and to take pictures from our meeting and add them to the group. Its a great way to show, and grow, our community. Visit http://www.flickr.com/groups/sler/
Robin Mochi: yes
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: The SL Education Roundtable meeting happens each week and we are looking to develop a community of educators from around the world with a variety of thoughts, needs, and ideas.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Please join the SL EDUCATION ROUNDTABLE group. If you have problems finding it in search, here inside the amphitheater, on the Eastern wall, you will see a display
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Click the display and follow the instruction in local chat on how to join the group.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: As the group grows, there will be announcements, surveys, and decisions made that will be exclusive to the group.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Aside from the island we are currently on, Montclair State University also has two other educational islands adjoining to the north.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: There are also numerous learning areas on these adjoining islands, Montclair State CHSS, which is home to our Quidditch pitch and the SL MSU Library,
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: and Montclair State CEHSADP, which is home to The Theorist Project and Wilber Middle School Library. Wander around and enjoy.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: If you are on Facebook, please join our group there - http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=44078263753&ref=share
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Finally, if you have Mystitool on, or other similiar tool, please put it to sleep or detach it for now. :-) It tends to lag things.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Today's meeting is in text chat.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: As a hint, it is better to have "local chat" open for these meetings, it will help you follow the conversation better.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: You can find local chat by clicking COMMUNICATE in the bottom navigation bar and you'll find LOCAL CHAT as one of the tabs at the bottom of the Communicate window.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: I'd also like to remind folks to come on down and join us around the table, there's always an open seat closest to the ramp.
hobbs Constantine: man are we educators are what, we actually want to sit here (smirk)
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Why don't we get started they way we usually do, by introducing ourselves. No need to wait, go ahead and type who you are, where you are, and your ties to education into local chat.
Olivia Hotshot: we'll we certainly won't be out of chat range today.
Chimera Cosmos: haha
Ignatius Onomatopoeia loves the wee Scottish Table :)
Chimera Cosmos: thinking some AOs might still be on
Geoff Lumley is Geoff Barker-Read from the University of Leeds, UK.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia is Joe Essid, Dept. of Rhetoric and Communication Studies. I'm the University of Richmond's Writing Center and Writing Across the Curriculum Director. I'm now teaching my fourth class with SL. I'm part of a design team building an immersive simulation of Poe's House of Usher, to launch in Spring 2010.
Profdan Netizen: Dan Holt, Lansing Community College, Lansing, MI. I teach writing, first year composition, and creative writing.
KIM Monday is Kim Monday, Virtual Librarian, Tulsa Community College
Grinn Pidgeon: Dr. Barbara Pittman, Cuyahoga Community College, Cleveland, Ohio. Faculty Development/Instructional technology/English teacher http://slurl.com/secondlife/Outreach/221/206/28
Lolly Dovgal: is Laura Sederberg, Technology and Learning Program, CSU, Chico.
JeanClaude Vollmar: Hi, I'm JC. Jeff Le Blanc in RL. I'm from the University of Northwestern Ohio and am their VP for IT.
Olivia Hotshot: Ann Steckel , Cal State Chico, educator techie and currently a sardine.
hobbs Constantine: is Heather Dodds of Western Governors University, Science Education Community
Zotarah Shepherd: I am a MA in Education (technology and psychology) student at Sonoma State University in northern California working an a curriculum project: Teaching and Learning Life-Skills in Second Life. I am working on an Immersive Interactive Educational build about Life-skills on an educational sim called Ralanora.
Margaret Michalski: Margaret Czart, Univ of Illinois at Chicago Research Information Specialist
Marty Snowpaw: Marty Keltz aka Reluctant Quester
Hobbes Pow: Hobbes Pow is Jim Phelps of UW-Madison
Kali Pizzaro: Evelyn mcElhinney Nurse educator
Robin Mochi: Robin Ashford, George Fox University, Portland Center Library, Ref & distance services librarian, adjunct instructor in SL,Portland, Oregon USA
Sheila Yoshikawa: I'm sorry I'm giggling too much
Sheila Yoshikawa: I see that Lorelei isn't inworld
Robin Mochi: LOL
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: heehee we may be stuck here too
Zotarah Shepherd: I still would like a few board members for the non-profit too.
Sheila Yoshikawa: are we going to go to another table
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: I cannot figure out the dynatable on the fly
Sheila Yoshikawa: or stay squashed?
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: so here we stay :)
Sheila Yoshikawa: lol
Zotarah Shepherd: hehe
Sheila Yoshikawa: ok folks
Sheila Yoshikawa: well I will introduce myself
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: so let's begin, Sheila
Sheila Yoshikawa: then say a few words about Infolit week in SL
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: I'll keep reading about the table :)
Lolly Dovgal: Photos will look very different today.
Sheila Yoshikawa: then there were a couple of questions i wanted to pose for discussion
Sheila Yoshikawa: then the conversation can go where people want, around the infolit topic
Sheila Yoshikawa: ok - Sheila Yoshikawa: owner of Infolit iSchool, where she teaches, and runs events (about 50 so far, see http://infolitischool.pbworks.com/) There are a number of information literacy installations on the island. Also organiser of Information Literacy Week in SL (http://infolit-week-in-SL.ning.com/), a member of the Educators Coop and on teh organising committee of VWBPE conference.
Sheila Yoshikawa: alternatively I'm Sheila Webber
Sheila Yoshikawa: this is a chunk about me there
Sheila Yoshikawa: Senior Lecturer in the Department of Information Studies University of Sheffield, UK, main area of research & teaching is information literacy & pedagogy, now extending to information literacy/behaviour in SL. Information Literacy blog is at http://information-literacy.blogspot.com/, Director of the Centre for Information Literacy Research (http://infolitresearch.ning.com/). Before this taught at Strathclyde University (Scotland) and before that was Head of the Business Information Service at the British Library (UK's national library).
Sheila Yoshikawa: so just to give that background
Sheila Yoshikawa: over by the big "Montclair university" board
Marty Snowpaw: cosy cosy....
Kali Pizzaro: indeed
Chimera Cosmos: Liz Dorland, Washington U in St. Louis, former chem faculty now into fac dev, etc
Sheila Yoshikawa: e.g. tomorrow Robin here launches her exhibit on Karuna
Sheila Yoshikawa: ;-)
Kathryn Pleides: I feel like we're sitting in a giant jello mold
Sheila Yoshikawa: lol
Robin Mochi: lol
Sheila Yoshikawa: look, i'm trying to be serious here
Sheila Yoshikawa: rofl
Robin Mochi: heh
Sheila Yoshikawa: ANYWAY
Robin Mochi: good luck, sheila
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: please folks
Sheila Yoshikawa: there is also a vendor
Sheila Yoshikawa: there
Kathryn Pleides: sry
Olivia Hotshot: sorry shelia - scoops jello off her lap
Sheila Yoshikawa: for a necklace and earrings
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: I'm trying to get us a big table, so let's carry on as best we can
Sheila Yoshikawa: with the international information literacy logo
Sheila Yoshikawa: i am wearing them
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: thanks
Sheila Yoshikawa: atthe moment
Sheila Yoshikawa: they were done FREE by a talented librarian and designer
Sheila Yoshikawa: Nissa Nightfire
Robin Mochi: very cool
Sheila Yoshikawa: yay librarians
Sheila Yoshikawa: so this year we have international events in the week
Sheila Yoshikawa: yesterday a Spanish speaking one
Sheila Yoshikawa: but i hope next year even more people will get involved
Sheila Yoshikawa: anyway, it ends on Sunday
Sheila Yoshikawa: so enough for the advert
Sheila Yoshikawa: ok
Sheila Yoshikawa: i typed a few words of intro
Sheila Yoshikawa: I would like to try and get some discussion going about information literacy in context.
Sheila Yoshikawa: Information means something different in different disciplines e.g. chemistry vs. English and even within disciplines.
Sheila Yoshikawa: s an example, a set of case studies of researchers in life sciences showed just published "There are marked differences in the patterns of information use and exchange between research groups active in different areas of the life sciences, reinforcing the need to avoid standardised policy approaches " http://www.rin.ac.uk/our-work/using-and-accessing-information-resources/disciplinary-case-studies-life-sciences
Sheila Yoshikawa: ie even in life sciences researchers are using and sharing info in different ways and finding different types of info important
Sheila Yoshikawa: Also how people think about information varies depending on their culture, background etc., and what is acceptable or desirable in terms of information behaviour.
Sheila Yoshikawa: I have PhD students from Syria and Thailand investigating information literacy, and different conceptions are emerging, particularly in the Syrian study.
Sheila Yoshikawa: Thus there are differences in what information literacy means in different disciplines and cultures.
Sheila Yoshikawa: So - the questions
Sheila Yoshikawa: - I?d be interested in hearing about: what does information mean for you? Is there anything different or special about what it means to be information literate in your discipline or your country.
Profdan Netizen: A specific example of a difference?
Sheila Yoshikawa: - If you are a librarian, have you done anything about finding out what information literacy means for the groups you work with?
Sheila Yoshikawa: right sorry, was just copying that in profdan
Sheila Yoshikawa: yes
Sheila Yoshikawa: do you think there's anything special about what information means
Sheila Yoshikawa: and what information literacy means to you, your students, inthe subject you teach
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: when you are ready...we can play musical chairs at the bigger table
KIM Monday: there are two questions: what is information and what does it mean to be information literate
Sheila Yoshikawa: i already asked a couple of people about this
Sheila Yoshikawa: Marty
Sheila Yoshikawa: and Kali
Sheila Yoshikawa: but should we pause to move?
Olivia Hotshot: for the record - 27 in the theater.
Zotarah Shepherd: Ahh easier to breathe now
Sheila Yoshikawa: just as well there weren't more!
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: I'm very sorry--AJ and I have been slammed
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: and I figured we had our table set up as usual
Chimera Cosmos: puter froze
Lolly Dovgal: Ah, breathe deeply now.
Zdenek Buchsbaum: IL means to be able to find info. in heterogeneous resources
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: @Lolly--I'm trying :)
Olivia Hotshot: I always wanted a close family *sighs*
Zotarah Shepherd: Thank you Kali
Margaret Michalski: To me information tells something I did not know. Information Literacy is how well someone absorbs that information
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: now then
Lolly Dovgal: Yikes
Kali Pizzaro: sorry hobbs
Chimera Cosmos: eeik
Joy Rembrandt: and being able to discern if the info is reliable by knowing something about the source the info is from
Chimera Cosmos: can't see peeps and then sit in same chair heheh
KIM Monday: It all seems to me to relate to making choices and effective decision-making for whatever one's purpose is
Zdenek Buchsbaum: IL means as well ho to convert information into knowledge
Kathryn Pleides: I'd say not that, but Information literacy tells me how to _find and _evaluate the information for something I don't know
Hobbes Pow: It's my first time here, Kali, I thought it was part of the culture ;-)
Marty Snowpaw: I relate information literacy to being able to decode and be literate in Facebook, Blog, Twitter, nings, Deliciouse
Joy Rembrandt: yes evaluate
Olivia Hotshot agrees with @Kathryn
Chimera Cosmos: did everyone crash, or are we just changing tables?
Kathryn Pleides: tables
Sheila Yoshikawa: we changed tables
Zotarah Shepherd: There is room for everyone at the table now if those in the audience seats would like to join us.
Olivia Hotshot: jusy changing him.
Zotarah Shepherd: Changed tables
Chimera Cosmos: heh
Kali Pizzaro: the ability to source, evaluate the source and make sense of the information
Kali Pizzaro: no hobbs we leave that to party nights
Grinn Pidgeon: decode is good because information is not always text
Marty Snowpaw: exactly
Sheila Yoshikawa: Grinn what kind of information ddo YOIU use?
Sheila Yoshikawa: You
Marty Snowpaw: or written in standard English
Hobbes Pow: Does it also include understanding information in context?
Kathryn Pleides: Yes, that has to be part of it
Grinn Pidgeon: well I'm teaching my college students to do digital storytelling and they have to translate an earlier written narrative into a digital story
Hobbes Pow: That would be another part, understanding how to change context without loosing content
Sheila Yoshikawa: so they have to find the information within the text?
Grinn Pidgeon: we go to art museums for information, aesthetic information
Sheila Yoshikawa: meaning perhaps rather than information?
Marty Snowpaw: text is just one element in literacy
Kathryn Pleides: say "source" perhaps, rather than text
Profdan Netizen: True, Marty, but it's a very important one.
Olivia Hotshot: i believe it also includes upper level thinking skills like analysis and synthesis.
Robin Mochi: We have formal information literacy guidelines that tie to our university mission statement at my university and many others in the USA but from being around Sheila and others from the UK is that information literacy seems to have a broader meaning there compared to the USA
Marty Snowpaw: less so all the time
Grinn Pidgeon: my students have to translate the written into images and text and audio and video to tell the same story
Hobbes Pow: e.g. how much something cost in the middle ages must be put in an understandable context
Margaret Michalski: @ SHiela, Yes some students what answer given straight to them but I prefer the method of having to think about it and read between the lines.
Sheila Yoshikawa: Kali's got a blog with a great machinima about a nurse/patient interview - would you say it involves information literacy to undertake that kind of interview
Profdan Netizen: Don't think so, Marty. We are more text saturated than we were ten years ago!
Marty Snowpaw: Meaning and contexts are seperate from media and delivery mechanisms
Kathryn Pleides: it's a kind of reference interview
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: I'll post Kali's blog URL to chat now
Robin Mochi: I would love that link to kali's blog...thanks!
Hobbes Pow: Kali - there is a chair NEXT to me...
Sheila Yoshikawa: lol
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: http://caledonianblogs.net/soh-secondlife/2009/11/02/aiml-test-bot-colin-the-virtual-patient/
Marty Snowpaw: don't think information literacy as something less formal is about only text
Olivia Hotshot: Chair to Iggy's left
Marty Snowpaw: or dominantly about text
Marty Snowpaw: it is about information regardless of the delivery method
Kali Pizzaro: computer is a slow as a week in the jail tonight
Kathryn Pleides: yes
Sheila Yoshikawa: I was talking to an Indian student about oral culture and information literacy
Kali Pizzaro: yes Marty
Robin Mochi: Agree, Marty
Marty Snowpaw: oral culture is a great example
Sheila Yoshikawa: in a discussion about how IT literacy related to information literacy
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: We have had an interesting time in all the 190 pages of First-year seminar proposals. It's the first time at Richmond we've had an information literacy requirement hard-wired to a course
Marty Snowpaw: can't get hung up on text
Marty Snowpaw: and live in the 21st century
Kali Pizzaro: can you understand and analyse or validate the source of the information
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: our librarians are FAR ahead of tenure-stream faculty in knowing how to teach students to use resources well
Sheila Yoshikawa: so - is it an issue that information literacy education/training tends to focus on IL with text?
Profdan Netizen: YOu can't, but students need to be conversant in text as well as other oralities, and information deliveries, or they will be at a disadavantage.
Zotarah Shepherd agrees @ Marty
Sheila Yoshikawa: (that was rather a loaded question ;-)
Hobbes Pow: Kali - source question is very interesting
Kali Pizzaro: this is important to be able to understand a subject
Hobbes Pow: Does meaning change with source? Does value change with source?
Grinn Pidgeon: to be information literate means being a comfortable and efficient navigator in all the modalities that surround us
Sheila Yoshikawa: sources including people, Kali?
Marty Snowpaw: Print literacy is the ghost of a past era
Chimera Cosmos: librarians always have been - faculty only knew how to find their own print journals, and now sci faculty mainly just use Web of Science or a couple of other mainstream databases
Kali Pizzaro: if they are the expert then yes
Chimera Cosmos: ahead that is
Kali Pizzaro: why not
Kathryn Pleides: Hobbes - does the source have knowledge of the topic? Is the source biased? That's part of what teaching InfoLiteracy is all about
Marty Snowpaw: burdened with linear thinking
Sheila Yoshikawa: actually with nurses in practice,, for example, i get the impression experienced people are trusted more than textual articles
Hobbes Pow: One could imagine a source which is highly metaphorical vs. one that is highly literal.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: @Marty--not our librarians. They understand what we comp teachers now call "multiliteracies"
Marty Snowpaw: in an age of multi media inputs and random access thinking
Kali Pizzaro: sometimes although hopefully it is based on the best evidence available
Kathryn Pleides: @Marty - deadtree editions are less common - but text of some kind is still heavily used, along w/the new media
Ignatius Onomatopoeia jabs Dan in the ribs--who knows what I mean
Zotarah Shepherd: Some of my professors seem to think if it is not in a peer reviewed journal it does not exist in the world.
Profdan Netizen: exactly, Iggy.
Olivia Hotshot: Zo - common attitude
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: @Zo--but for certain types of evidence and claims, peer-reviewed is good
Kali Pizzaro: oh that sounds familiar Zo
Kathryn Pleides: Zot - how do they deal with the new Open Source journal movement?
Profdan Netizen: And something students need to be familiar with, Zo.
Zotarah Shepherd: Most don't know about it
Hobbes Pow: certain types yes, but what about oral histories?
Sheila Yoshikawa: but yes it IS contextual, journal articles are more important in some fields than others
Marty Snowpaw: peer reviewed is good but that does not define it has to be sourced in print
Kali Pizzaro: indeed
Sheila Yoshikawa: no it mostly isn't on paper nowadays
Grinn Pidgeon: you do what your department says--peer reviewed is still tied to the job
Kathryn Pleides: There are OS peer-reviewed journals online now
Robin Mochi: Many librarians now understand the different literacies but sometimes the faculty member has a different idea in mind when we are asked to teach info lit to their classes...can be tricky when our defs of info lit don't line up with the faculty member
Profdan Netizen: Text and print--two different concepts.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: @Hobbes, part of a constellation of evidence. Our analysis text in first year composition says they all have merit depending on the task and field of stucy
Olivia Hotshot: peer reviewed learning objects perhaps, Marty?
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: *study
Hobbes Pow: Marty - good and interesting point. Open Source code is peer reviewed
Marty Snowpaw: @olivia yes
Olivia Hotshot: =)
Sheila Yoshikawa: there is a problem in saying that any one type of source is always "the best"
Marty Snowpaw: but not objects media is more dynamic
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: note that the Journal of Virtual Worlds Research is free, online, and peer-reviewed. Only journal of its kind so far, as far as I know.
Sheila Yoshikawa: that's a problem i have with some multiple choice "info literacy" tests
Profdan Netizen: Kairos?
Profdan Netizen: Same way.
Robin Mochi: that's a great journal, Iggy
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: @Dan--YES! D'oh
Margaret Michalski: @Shiela, at my institution the first question always is "what journal did you get the information from?"
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Kairos was the first, but not just about VWs
Profdan Netizen: true
Zotarah Shepherd: Sometimes I feel like I am the teacher of my professors, and most have been interested in my information, especially about technology.
Sheila Yoshikawa: Iggy - with JVWO - you mean the only of its kind on virtual worlds or???
Kali Pizzaro: in virtual world i am part of a editorial board for a free , online, peer reviewed e- journal
Kathryn Pleides: Marg - "from the original author, via email" not being an acceptable source? :-)
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: @Kali--only one I know of that is peer-reviewed and focusing in VWs
Marty Snowpaw: a slavish loyalty to print will be a death sentence for Librarians
Sheila Yoshikawa: In my field we have in particular one well respected peer reviewed free journal, been going for years
Zotarah Shepherd: Yes Margaret
Kali Pizzaro: ok mine is health
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: @Marty, agreed. But they are ahead of faculty in my experience in getting beyond Gutenberg/Cartesian thinking
Sheila Yoshikawa: @Marty but i don't think librarians are wedded to print,m far from it
Chimera Cosmos: perhaps not the slavish loyalty to print so much as the slavish loyalty to paper in some quarters :-)
Profdan Netizen: Haven't been for quite some time, at least not at LCC.
Marty Snowpaw: @Sheila you are not wedded to it
Zotarah Shepherd: It is easier to find journal articles about virtual worlds but not much quantitative research ones yet.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Folks...I just realized that Lori was in the stands
Marty Snowpaw: the system is the brick and mortar is
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: she had some computer problems
Kathryn Pleides: Most of the librarians I know are ahead of the curve as far as adopting new media and new literacies
Lorelei Junot: I apologize for being late
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: *problems even
Sheila Yoshikawa: @Marty but you should see my office - flooded with paper ;-)
Robin Mochi: True, Iggy, I recently referred some graduate education students to the excellent Classroom 2.0 ning...that didn't go over real well with all the faculty in the SOE
Kali Pizzaro: most health journal release the paper online 6 months to a year before paper
Olivia Hotshot: Welcome Lorelei.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: thanks for joining us
Kali Pizzaro: hi Lorelei
Robin Mochi: good to see you Lorelei
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: you've been listening in about this topic--jump right in
Chimera Cosmos: the pre-print issue is huge in science - chemistry in particular
Kali Pizzaro: i have loads of papers in my office .
Margaret Michalski: @ Kali, Right! That is why I always have a problem getting a paper copy.
Kali Pizzaro: yeah chimera
Chimera Cosmos: so few journals allow pre-prints
Chimera Cosmos: Horace Moody wanted to publish his SL review article in JChemEd
Kali Pizzaro: yeah i then go ahead and print them out haha
Chimera Cosmos: but they would not allow preprints
Chimera Cosmos: so he refused even to submit
Zotarah Shepherd: If I had the money I would hire someone to scan all the papers I have saved over the years. Storage is hard to organize.
Sheila Yoshikawa: ok i will pitch in again
Kathryn Pleides: This reminds me of what's going on in other parts of online culture vis-a-vis content sharing, mashups, Creative Commons, etc.
Kathryn Pleides: World is becoming more interactive
Chimera Cosmos: Horace (Jean-Claude Bradley from Drexel) is a huge open journals advocate
Sheila Yoshikawa: just to pick up a question i threw in before ;-)
Chimera Cosmos: and open science/lab data too
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: please :)
Sheila Yoshikawa: we were talking about IL not just being print
Zotarah Shepherd: Yes Kathryn and I just love that.
Kathryn Pleides: It's up to us to help folks find their ways through the deluge!
Sheila Yoshikawa: so why do librarians tend to focus on print info literacy
Kathryn Pleides: @Zot - agreed!
Sheila Yoshikawa: so to speak
Kali Pizzaro: Sheila the new research evaluation will push academics to impact factor journals.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: @Sheila--because on our campus, it's what faculty value
Robin Mochi: exactly, Iggy
Sheila Yoshikawa: even though "Researchers use informal and trusted sources of advice from colleagues, rather than institutional service teams, to help identify information sources and resources"
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: in 40+ proposals for seminars, I have maybe 10 that include other forms of expression
Sheila Yoshikawa: that's from the same report i was quoting from
Marty Snowpaw: @Sheila yes....
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: making artwork, blogging, etc
Zotarah Shepherd: I am not reordering magazines unless they have online delivery rather than print.
Robin Mochi: though it's starting to get a little better on my campus as more faculty are using virtual worlds
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: I wonder, Lorelei and Sheila, what librarians & media specialists can do to bridge the gap I'm seeing and we are discussing
Kali Pizzaro: there is something valuable about being able to touch and scribble in margins
Kali Pizzaro: ;-)
Chimera Cosmos: how many here are librarians?
Kathryn Pleides: Kali - there is.
Hobbes Pow: There is something very valuable in being able to comment and add value like in a wiki
Marty Snowpaw: there is something just as valuable in making a machinima or telling a story digitally
Kathryn Pleides raises hand - is librarian
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: @Hobbes and Marty--I agree. Most colleagues don't, yet
Chimera Cosmos: :-)
Zotarah Shepherd: Even newer Kindles allow people to write notes now
Jarrad Voom: sits quietly not a librarian
Kali Pizzaro: wiki's are banned in our school as a reference
Lorelei Junot: More librarians are getting involved in media literacy also
Ignatius Onomatopoeia groans at Kali's school
Hobbes Pow: Kali - Get out. Really????
Kathryn Pleides: Kali - argh.
Sheila Yoshikawa: @Kali that seems a bit daft
Chimera Cosmos: I think things are changing - look at the MacArthur Foundation work
Kali Pizzaro: not peer reviewed as far as the school is concerned
Robin Mochi: I'm a librarian and an adjunct instructor for school of ed so I know what's going on with both groups at my institution and the consortium in the pacific northwest
Marty Snowpaw: I think media literacy and information literacy are joined at the hip
Kali Pizzaro: however this was a few years ago
Chimera Cosmos: one of many who have not changed, but quite influential
Sheila Yoshikawa: @Marty yes indeed
Lorelei Junot: we are offering reference service in more and more formats
Zotarah Shepherd: If I use a wiki I have to go to the original sources listed
Lorelei Junot: chat, video, text message
Chimera Cosmos: Robin, are you in WA state?
Profdan Netizen: Kali, is it more than just Wikipedia being banned?
Chimera Cosmos: they are very progressive in WA I think
Robin Mochi: yes, marty, 21st century literacies mean they joined at the hip to me also
Kathryn Pleides: I teach our students and faculty to be careful of wikis... and remind them to be careful of all other sources as well.
Kali Pizzaro: all wiki
Robin Mochi: I am in Portland, ORegon, Chimera
Chimera Cosmos: Oregon is also very cool :-)
Jarrad Voom: not as cool as washingotn
Kathryn Pleides: I am glad that some of our teachers are now allowing wikis and other newer forms of information sources
Robin Mochi: and Oregon and WA are the same consortium
Chimera Cosmos: hehe
Kali Pizzaro: however, i sure if the student argued their case they may g et away with it
Robin Mochi: yes
Chimera Cosmos: I taught at Shoreline and Seattle Central back in the late 70s
Hobbes Pow: Kali - if a Comp Sci student was going to refer to references for say, uPortal, they would have no acceptable sources...
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: show these resisters the article from the Atlantic by Nick Carr
Zotarah Shepherd: Different media of information and assignments can also engage different multiple intelligences of the students
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: URL coming...
Margaret Michalski: @Kali- wikis were a problem for me until it was the only example I could show of how some classes are now being taught online. (BTW- it is Iggys)
Kali Pizzaro: however, some of us are trying to use it as a formative assessment tool
Sheila Yoshikawa: From my research it seems like an issue is that faculty are actually information literacy for their own individual purposes, to research and gather stuff for their teaching, using their networks and experience, but not always good at understanding what a different place their students are in, NOT having the networks, contacts or subject understanding
Chimera Cosmos: and, not understanding their (faculty) responsibility to help students learn about and form networks
Sheila Yoshikawa: yes
Profdan Netizen: Or even reading skills, Sheila.
Robin Mochi: I have told my library director that I see some builds in SL as another format of information...so a student could use a journal article, a book, a video, and visit virtual hallucinations if they were working on a paper on Schizophrenia for instance
Zotarah Shepherd: Teachers need to be more media and open source, information literate
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: sorry--author is Jamais Cascio...http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200907/intelligence
Sheila Yoshikawa: indeed we are having to help students learn how to read articles
Zotarah Shepherd: Great Robin!
Marty Snowpaw: @Robin Bravo and yes
Grinn Pidgeon: we think if we confine students to evaluating reputable print works, that it will carry over to the media around them, but they need to be taught those skills, too
Chimera Cosmos: definition of intelligence - now there's another Tar Baby for sure!
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: argues that augmented intelligence is necessary--thus wikis make us smarter, not dumber (Carr's argument)
Chimera Cosmos: sp
Hobbes Pow: SL Question - is there a way to copy URLs out of chat/
Robin Mochi: :) so far my director just looks at me funny...goes oh, that crazy Robin - LOL
Marty Snowpaw: Print is a dead end to linear thinking only
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: @Hobbs, yes--or just click and bookmark
Sheila Yoshikawa: @hobbes - i just copy and paste
Lorelei Junot: In a collaborative text message reference project we are doing with over 60 libraries from all over the US, half of hte librarians see wikipedia as a good reference source and half do not
Kathryn Pleides: Sure - just highlight and control-c to copy.
Zotarah Shepherd: You can copy everything out of chat
Zotarah Shepherd: Click the URLs to access them
Hobbes Pow: Tried all those...
Chimera Cosmos: wow only 50% Lorelei?
Chimera Cosmos: sad
Lorelei Junot: yes
Sheila Yoshikawa: @Lorelei - I can't see how you can just be for or against - it depends on teh wiki and the information need
Profdan Netizen: Lorelei, for those who don't, do they see other general encyclopedias as valid forms of reference?
Lorelei Junot: we were trying to create a policy about whether librarians could use wikipedia and we ended up saying it is up to the librarians discretion
Chimera Cosmos: Hobbes, can you click in the chat field and do command-A for all?
Chimera Cosmos: should highlight
Lorelei Junot: some are very vocal against it, Sheila
Kathryn Pleides: I find Wikipedia is quite reliable on some topics, not so much on others. One must be aware of which topics only have a few contributors or, on the other hand, are going through an editing war
Chimera Cosmos: if you can do that, you can copy/paste
Lorelei Junot: some are very black for
Lorelei Junot: and some are very black and white against
Sheila Yoshikawa: lol
Marty Snowpaw: it is the unreliability of all media that requires us to be literate
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: at ALA meetings, how do y'all talk about us bone-headed faculty who are not librarians?
Marty Snowpaw: we pretend that print is more truthful
Robin Mochi: wikipedia is a great tool itself to use to teach certain information literacy skills, like how to evaluate information
Kathryn Pleides: We are lucky in NY that the State has been funding some online reference for all libraries. However, with the budget crunch, not sure we'll have it next year
Birdie Newcomb: @Marty good point
Profdan Netizen: @Marty, excellent point.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: b/c many librarians have faculty status
Sheila Yoshikawa: yes and learning to read signals in different media
Kathryn Pleides: @Marty - yes!
Marty Snowpaw: literacy is getting to the truth or essence of something
Robin Mochi: LOL, iggy
Margaret Michalski: Question! If you took information found in an article and have very similar info on a Univ website which would you choose as the better source of information.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia is a bone-head (table is proof of the puddin')
Grinn Pidgeon: the one I can cut and paste
Olivia Hotshot: here at Chico we have a team member who is a librarian & have faculty status.
Zotarah Shepherd: Being literate is also knowing what information is reliable and for that we need to teach critical thinking skills. \\
Chimera Cosmos: what kind of article? where?
Sheila Yoshikawa: #lol Grinn
Kathryn Pleides: Great for a history or journalism tie-in too
Profdan Netizen: Depends on who at the University put up the info.
Sheila Yoshikawa: and what page on the website
Sheila Yoshikawa: and indeed which uni
Kali Pizzaro: can i just point out that the wiki subject is not the opinion of Kali Pizzaro hehe
Marty Snowpaw: Information literacy is teaching critical literacy skills
Kathryn Pleides: Margaret - I would try to track down the original source. But that's a lot of work sometimes!
Marty Snowpaw: for all media
Kali Pizzaro: yep marty
Zotarah Shepherd: It would depend on the information in both Margaret
Lorelei Junot: we need to meet students where they are and help them find information, even if where they are is a cell phone
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: An English prof in a meeting yelled at me once "There is no such thing as visual literacy!"
Margaret Michalski: In my case I found information first on a university webiste. Then months later I found the exact same thing in a journal.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia has left English :)
Kali Pizzaro: noooo i don't believe it
Kali Pizzaro: Margaret
Ignatius Onomatopoeia wishes Marty had been there IRL
Marty Snowpaw: The English Prof was a moron
Profdan Netizen: Anyone ever have a student write, "According to the Internet..."
Zotarah Shepherd: I have found that the logic course I took long ago still helps me determine validity of information.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: :)
Robin Mochi: Agree, Lorelei, and many librarians in the US are using IM reference as well as cell phone reference
Jarrad Voom: whispers "there is no such thing as visual literacy"
Grinn Pidgeon: LOL English prof morons are everywhere--that's why I'm in instructional technology
Olivia Hotshot: i know there are articles out there on ho to cite twitter.
Chimera Cosmos: "no such thing as visual literacy" - that's just dumb - but I would agree that "visual learner" is problematic
Grinn Pidgeon: and teaching english on the side
Ignatius Onomatopoeia hits Jarrad over the head with a DVD of "Citizen Kane"
Lorelei Junot: cell phone reference is not too widely used yet but the number is growing quickly
Margaret Michalski: @ Kali! yes, we can talk out of world since it is our area
Marty Snowpaw: don't wisper it say it our loud
Lorelei Junot: Robin do you offer cell phone text reference at your university?
Kathryn Pleides: SMS reference!
Lorelei Junot: yes SMS reference
Robin Mochi: we are looking into the different programs, Lorelei...I attended the handheld librarian conference
Lorelei Junot: are you offering it at your university Katryn?
Sheila Yoshikawa: so is it possible to be information literate if you can't read? if you are only "visually literate"?
Lorelei Junot: Robin, let me know if you would like to join My Info Quest
Kali Pizzaro: well i have had folk reference a patient forum. It could have been correct information however it was not
Marty Snowpaw: yes
Marty Snowpaw: absolutely
Lorelei Junot: http://www.myinfoquest.info
Zotarah Shepherd: If something can be recorded and posted it should be considered a possible valid source.
Hobbes Pow: We also have Live Chat (IMS) reference. They'll even send a PDF of the doc if they have it
Marty Snowpaw: I could not read until the 5th grade
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: @Sheila--yes. Ask a Greek epic poet
Marty Snowpaw: but watched a lot of television
Kali Pizzaro: yes why not
Robin Mochi: Our IM chat reference is beginning to really pick up lately at my university...students can easily ask questions from anywhere with that, Lorelei
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Their epics were performed
Margaret Michalski: @ Sheila, yes some people learn by reading others by seing and other bby hearing.
Profdan Netizen: Yeah, but that was then, Iggy.
Marty Snowpaw: and most teachers thought I was stupid
Sheila Yoshikawa: also indigenous Australians
Profdan Netizen: And Marty, you can now.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: @Dan, we had a man come to campus and sing part of the Iliad
Birdie Newcomb: If the topic is politics, all bets are off for reliability.
Grinn Pidgeon: @Marty--I couldn't stand to read until I got out of high school
Sheila Yoshikawa: still a a very oral/ pictorial culture
Marty Snowpaw: yes but print literacy cannot remain the litmus test for intellegence
Profdan Netizen: The problem is that many students now have got the idea, that they don't need to read, because they're visual learners.
Zotarah Shepherd: Reading was a great escape for me. I liked comic books too.
Olivia Hotshot: 6 minutes left in meeting -
Olivia Hotshot: 26 people in the theater
Lorelei Junot: what a great discussion this is
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: this is why I like the definition put forth earlier of information literarcy--though "fluency" might suit my picky colleagues better
Robin Mochi: Now with the ubiquitousness of video many students are preferring to learn that way, I am one of them...video and virtual worlds are best for my learning
Sheila Yoshikawa: yes, profdan, in the UK it IS necessary to be able to read I would say, to be information literate
Grinn Pidgeon: @Profdan, aren't we needing a new definition of reading?
Marty Snowpaw: best for your learning and for teaching
Profdan Netizen: Same here, Sheila.
Kali Pizzaro: yeah they look up the source but don't read any background. i find that they pick one key phrase - sometimes
Marty Snowpaw: all students
Sheila Yoshikawa: but people need to read the meaning in different kinds of communication too
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: but being able to being wiling are different
Marty Snowpaw: regardless of which media they are most literate in
Kathryn Pleides: The problem with the visual/etc types of literacy as usually stated is that they're not absolutes. No one is just one type with no ability to learn others
Profdan Netizen: Literate vs aliterate, Iggy?
Robin Mochi: yes, I am working on a blog post (have been for a while) titled "What is a book"
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: @Dan--that's it
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: aliterate
Grinn Pidgeon: oh crap I gotta go
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: we have about five more minutes, but thanks for coming today Grinn!
Sheila Yoshikawa: It's nearly 3.30
Sheila Yoshikawa: Bye Grinn
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: yes--any questions for our presenters?
Zotarah Shepherd: Bye Grinn
Kali Pizzaro: Marty, Did you find it easier to express and deliver your message after you could read?
Chimera Cosmos: I think that "Visual Literacy" is really different from "visual learner", "auditory learner" etc
Chimera Cosmos: not the same concept at all
Kathryn Pleides: Sheila - yes, and understanding different styles is teachable/learning
Lorelei Junot: RObin did you see the cover article on Library Journal this week by Tom Peters called "The Future of Reading"
Marty Snowpaw: no
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: @Chimera--I agree
Robin Mochi: fascinating topic because there is a digital revolution taking place and this is all very relevant
Kathryn Pleides: Chim - definitely
Zotarah Shepherd: Yes Chim
Kali Pizzaro: interesting thanks Marty
Lolly Dovgal: Very interesting topic today!
Sheila Yoshikawa: I'll just say for late comers - there's poster with the infolit week in SL schedule, plus the vendor for jewelry using the international information literacy logo
Robin Mochi: Lorelei, I have that article bookmarked but haven't read it yet...I've heard it's great
Marty Snowpaw: word are just one tool of communication
Kali Pizzaro: Cheers Sheila
Chimera Cosmos: "learning styles is failed theory" someone once told me a famous researcher said
Chimera Cosmos: and I agree
Kali Pizzaro: indeed
Chimera Cosmos: but that has NOTHING to do with Visual Literacy
Marty Snowpaw: or imagination
Marty Snowpaw: or creativity
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Marty has hit it on the head
Marty Snowpaw: or thinking poetically
Lorelei Junot: There are going to be some online conversations on the future of reading
Lorelei Junot: just a moment
Marty Snowpaw: or in metaphors
Lorelei Junot: I will share the info
Chimera Cosmos: literacy in the broadest sense
Zotarah Shepherd: Libraries are the backbone of education in SL. Librarians here helped me get started and have been a great source of information for me.
Kali Pizzaro: i like reading i must say
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: we neglect imagination, play, and creativity in the curriculum at our peril
Lorelei Junot: Tuesday, November 17, 2009 at 2:00 p.m. Eastern Time, 1:00 Central, noon Mountain, 11:00 a.m. Pacific, and 7:00 p.m. GMT:
FiLBeRt Roundtable Discussion: The Future of Libraries, Books, and Reading: The shared futures of libraries, books, and reading seem very hazy at present. Join us for a monthly, lively, informal discussion of new developments, challenges, and opportunities. It'll be a roundtable, so everyone is welcome to chime in. If it's a FiLBeRt discussion, it's going to be nutty!
Kali Pizzaro: and all other forms of media
Lolly Dovgal: Yes, they need to be innovative leaders for us.
Profdan Netizen: @Iggy very true.
Lorelei Junot: online info at http://www.opal-online.org
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: I'll plug next week's meeting here, too
Robin Mochi: thanks, Lorelei!
Sheila Yoshikawa: my students did some really nice posters today about "what information literacy means in our future careers" - some creative diagrams and pictures
Kali Pizzaro: Thanks Sheila great chat again
Hobbes Pow: So Kali - what are you doing after? /wink
Lorelei Junot: Sheila, thanks for moderating
Olivia Hotshot: Just so you all know - next week is a discussion about who and what we should do next year. AJ will be back (provided nothing weird happens to his schedule) so come on out and voice your opinion.
Zotarah Shepherd: Play is critical in cognitive and other development. I am taking a course on that now.
Lorelei Junot: again, I am sorry for my lateness
Chimera Cosmos: perhaps we are partly talking about "Visual Digital Literacy" - a somewhat different concept
Kali Pizzaro: hehe going to my bed it is 11.30pm here
Robin Mochi: yes, great job, Sheila :)
Kathryn Pleides: Alas, I can't make next Tuesday; too early for me.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: no worries Lorelei
Sheila Yoshikawa: thanks for participating
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: yes, next week we have: 11/17 - Future Meeting: Guests and Themes: AJ Brooks
Olivia Hotshot: Great Job Shelia =)
Kathryn Pleides: 2pm ET I am still at work.
Sheila Yoshikawa: and Iggy and Kali thanks for the tables!
Chimera Cosmos: this IS work LOL
Kathryn Pleides is glad for archives of discussions that can't be made
Kali Pizzaro: ha Sheila
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: and if you want to suggest "visual literacy" as a topic--please do!
Kathryn Pleides: Yes, thanks!
Robin Mochi: I need to go and complete my information literacy build on the rooftop of the Karuna Resource Center -there got my plug in - LOL
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: AJ and our regular table return!
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: we are at 330 now
Kali Pizzaro: hey Olivia hope you got a few pics of the cosy bunch
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: I'll stay for a bit longer
Olivia Hotshot: I did kali
Zotarah Shepherd: hehe All the best with that Robin
Sheila Yoshikawa: yep be there for the launch tomorrow at 9am SLT
Kali Pizzaro: fab
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: thank you all for coming and putting up with the confusion!
Olivia Hotshot: See Ecerone next week.
Robin Mochi: Hope to see any who can make it tomorrow at 9AM SLT :)
Robin Mochi: bye now
Appletini : Mmmm, as tempting as the apple in the Garden of Eden, Hobbes Pow!
Profdan Netizen: Thanks, everyone, excellent discussion.
Robin Mochi: and thanks all :)
Kali Pizzaro: will try Robin
Zotarah Shepherd: Bye Hobbs
JeanClaude Vollmar: See you all next week. Have a great one!
Olivia Hotshot: Off to the dentist i go.
Hobbes Pow: bye all
Kali Pizzaro: Bye All
Chimera Cosmos: oops
Kali Pizzaro: oh Olivia
Chimera Cosmos: just walked on someone's head!
Sheila Yoshikawa: bye everyone
Zdenek Buchsbaum: bye
Sheila Yoshikawa: i sat on about 4 people's heads
Hobbes Pow: pardon me
Profdan Netizen: See you all next week.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: LOL I'll leave this table OUT in case AJ is still overwhelmed next week :)
Zotarah Shepherd: It is amazing how much we can communicate here in such a short time.
Sheila Yoshikawa: before i got my seat today
Chimera Cosmos: haha
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: thank again to Sheila and Lorelei
Appletini : Mmm..
Chimera Cosmos: tricky automatic click and sits
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: for joining us today
Kali Pizzaro: i preferred mine ;-p
Zotarah Shepherd: Each time I come to SLER I am like a puppy anticipating what new things I will learn and share.
Kali Pizzaro: too fussy the lot of you