Transcript of Second Life Education Roundtable: Sept. 29, 2009
Topic: Assessment
Thanks to Sheila Webber for photos and Olivia Hotshot for setting up a Flickr group to share them (visit Olivia's blog and Flickr photostream). See Olivia's Flickr group for the SLER to add your own photos.
Links Mentioned:
Olivia Hotshot: Hi everyone, and welcome to this week's SL Education Roundtable.
Olivia Hotshot: These meetings are made possible by the Office of Information Technology at Montclair State University.
Olivia Hotshot: We meet here each week at 2:30pm SLT for an hour.
Olivia Hotshot: The SL Education Roundtable is a forum to educate and inform the community about issues that are important and relevant to education.
Katie Fenstalker: (yey Olivia.)
Olivia Hotshot: The views and opinions of any of our special guests or visitors do not necessarily represent those who volunteer or organize these meetings, or of
Olivia Hotshot: hey =)
Olivia Hotshot: Montclair State University or the College of Humanities and Social Sciences or Office of Information Technology at Montclair State.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: same here, Dan. They all say "SL is empty" but just wait...Burning Life coming up
Olivia Hotshot: Our meetings are roundtable style, so those in the theater seats please come down and join us at the table.
Olivia Hotshot: Our magic expanding table will always have an empty seat, located closest to the ramp.
AgileBill Firehawk: be sure to checkout Zo's very cool sim on multiple intelligences (if you haven't seen it already)
Olivia Hotshot: Our topic/theme today is Assessment in Second Life.
Olivia Hotshot: This is a public meeting, so we do keep a transcript of what is said in local chat.
Olivia Hotshot: For a copy of transcripts, please visit http://www.virtualworldsedu.info/slroundtable/
Olivia Hotshot: Special thanks to our resident scribe, Iggy Onomatopoeia, for taking care of this. If you've not seen the transcripts, you should check them out - they are a great information asset.
Olivia Hotshot: Information on FUTURE MEETINGS is available from the notecard giver on the West wall of the Amphitheater.
Olivia Hotshot: We have an amazing lineup of meeting for you, with topics set (subject to change) between now and the end of December.
Olivia Hotshot: The SL Education Roundtable meeting happens each week and we are looking to develop a community of educators from around the world with a variety of thoughts, needs, and ideas.
Olivia Hotshot: Please join the SL EDUCATION ROUNDTABLE group. If you have problems finding it in search, here inside the amphitheater, on the Eastern wall, you will see a display
Olivia Hotshot: Clicking the and follow the instruction in local chat on how to join the group.
Ashy Viper: Alan .... afk? I write for that magazine
Olivia Hotshot: As the group grows, there will be announcements, surveys, and decisions made that will be exclusive to the group.
Olivia Hotshot: Aside from the island we are currently on, Montclair State University also has two other educational islands adjoining to the north.
Olivia Hotshot: There are also numerous learning areas on these adjoining islands, Montclair State CHSS, which is home to our Quidditch pitch and the SL MSU Library,
Olivia Hotshot: and Montclair State CEHSADP, which is home to The Theorist Project and Wilber Middle School Library. Wander around and enjoy.
Olivia Hotshot: If you are on Facebook, please join our group there - http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=44078263753&ref=share
Olivia Hotshot: Thanks to Olivia Hotshot for putting together a Flickr group for the SLER. I encourage everyone to join the group and to take pictures from our meeting and add them to the group. Its a great way to show, and grow, our community.
Olivia Hotshot: Finally, if you have Mystitool on, or other similar tool, please put it to sleep or detach it for now. :-) It tends to lag things.
Olivia Hotshot: As a hint, it is better to have "local chat" open for these meetings, it will help you follow the conversation better.
Olivia Hotshot: You can find local chat by clicking COMMUNICATE in the bottom navigation bar and you'll find LOCAL CHAT as one of the tabs at the bottom of the Communicate window.
Olivia Hotshot: I'd also like to remind folks to come on down and join us around the table, there's always an open seat closest to the ramp.
Olivia Hotshot: Why don't we get started they way we usually do, by introducing ourselves. No need to wait, go ahead and type who you are, where you are, and your ties to education into local chat.
Olivia Hotshot: I am Ann Steckel, an educational technology consultant and educator from California State University, Chico.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Hey O!
Katie Fenstalker: (Zo, can we search for it under "multiple intelligences"?)
JeanClaude Vollmar: I'm JC, Jeff Le Blanc in RL. I work for the University of Northwestern Ohio as their VP for IT>
Olivia Hotshot: So folks, who is here today? Lets introduce ourselves.
Profdan Netizen: Dan Holt, Lansing Community College, Lansing, MI, teaching writing -- first year comp and creative writing.
Geoff Lumley is Geoff Barker-Read from the University of Leeds, UK.
Birdie Newcomb: Birdie Newborn, publisher.
Tim Wikinger: Im Tim Zijlstra, research assistant at Uni of Sheffield UK
Zage Farman: Frederic Emam-Zade Gerardino (RL)
Principal Economist - Former Executive Director
Fundación Global Democracia y Desarrollo
(Global Foundation for Democracy and Development)
Dominican Republic
Hattie Haystack: Gail Hanson Brenner, University of Wisconsin-Eau Claire, Clinical Nursing Instructor
Katie Fenstalker: Katie King, Women's Studies, University of Maryland, College Park.
Zotarah Shepherd: I can give the LM to anyone who wants it.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia is Joe Essid, Dept. of Rhetoric and Communication Studies. I'm the University of Richmond's Writing Center and Writing Across the Curriculum Director. I've taught 3 classes in writing or lit with SL. I'm part of a design team building an immersive simulation of Poe's House of Usher, to launch in Spring 2010.
Bluesky Larkham: I'm "Tim" Johnson form University of Worcester, I lecture in health informatics and elearning
npellas Passariello: Nickpellas from Aristotle University of Thessaloniki Greece
Ahlan Oh: Alan Epstein, Robotics Team Advisory, Watertown Public Schools, Massachusetts
Professor Madrigal: is Amy Kenefick, School of Nursing, University of Connecticut
Kali Pizzaro: Evelyn Glasgow caledonian nurse lecturer
ericcgcc Yootz: eric greene columbia gorge community college
Zotarah Shepherd: I am a MA in Education (technology and psychology) student at Sonoma State University in northern California working an a curriculum project: Teaching and Learning Life-Skills in Second Life. I am working on an Immersive Interactive Educational build about Life-skills on an educational sim called Ralanora.
Alan Sandalwood: Alan Haywood, IT in EFL
Twang Watanabe: Kevin Huotari teaching Art History here in SL for West LA College
Bungy Bingyi: David Smith - Dir of Tech for Oakland School for the Arts
Wena Merlin: Hi, I'm Wena and I work with languages, currently at the University of Birmingham/UK
Lolly Dovgal: Olivia crashed again. Be patient, please, and she will return.
Aselin Arrowmint: Rachel Desmarais, Forsyth Tech, Winston-Salem, NC - CIO, adjunct instructor
Spiral Theas: Robin Heyden (Spiral Theas), Education Consultant living in Boston, MA
Ashy Viper: Ashraf Al-Allaf, Professor of English, Mosul University, Iraq
Lolly Dovgal: Lolly is Laura Sederberg from CSU, Chico
Firery Broome: University of Delaware
Tim Wikinger: evening Sheila :)
Kali Pizzaro: Hey Shiela
Oronoque Westland: Roberta Kilkenny, Hunter College (where today is Monday), Caribbean history and economic development
Kali Pizzaro: like the hair
Olivia Hotshot: Last call for introductions?
Sheila Yoshikawa: Hi I'm Sheila webber in RL, teach in the Department of Information Studies Sheffield University UK
Bisto Bock: bob sprankle from maine... tech integrator
Olivia Hotshot: Thanks again for coming everyone.
Olivia Hotshot: I am going to start today's meeting with a few questions.
Ashy Viper: Wow Sheila, I lived in Sheffield for 9 years
Spiral Theas: Biston - I like that idea "tech integrator"!
Wena Merlin: Forgot to say, I'm Rita Marriott in RL
Spiral Theas: Sorry, "Bisto"
Olivia Hotshot: Yes or No? Who here has assessed student work in SL via an eportfolio?
Kali Pizzaro: seat next to zo sheia
Alan Sandalwood: Neighbours. I was born near Nottingham
Spiral Theas: no.
Tim Wikinger: no
JeanClaude Vollmar: no
Alan Sandalwood: No
Wena Merlin: no
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: yes
Birdie Newcomb: nope
Geoff Lumley: nope
Aselin Arrowmint: no
Kali Pizzaro: no
Katie Fenstalker: no
Twang Watanabe: not yet
Profdan Netizen: no
Lolly Dovgal: NO
Ashy Viper: no
Ahlan Oh: no
ericcgcc Yootz: no
Zage Farman: no
Birdie Newcomb: how does that work?
Oronoque Westland: no
Professor Madrigal: no
Olivia Hotshot: Thankyou. Second question: Who here has done some form of assessment of student work in SL?
Bluesky Larkham: no
npellas Passariello: no
Bungy Bingyi: no
Alan Sandalwood: no
Professor Madrigal: no
npellas Passariello: no
Kali Pizzaro: no
Tim Wikinger: not yet
Sheila Yoshikawa: yes
Zage Farman: nope
Zotarah Shepherd: no
Ahlan Oh: no again
Ashy Viper: nope
Profdan Netizen: yes
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: yes
Birdie Newcomb: uh-uh
ericcgcc Yootz: not yet
Oronoque Westland: just cuss not assess
Lolly Dovgal: No
Aselin Arrowmint: yes
Geoff Lumley: no
Kali Pizzaro: 39 on sim for the transcript
Olivia Hotshot: Last question, who here has done a programmatic assessment of what they are teaching in SL?
Katie Fenstalker: (portfolio vs. ?)
Alan Sandalwood: no
Aselin Arrowmint: no
Kali Pizzaro: not yet
Tim Wikinger: no
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: no
Katie Fenstalker: no
Bluesky Larkham: no
Professor Madrigal: no
Profdan Netizen: no
Zage Farman: nay
Twang Watanabe: yes
Geoff Lumley is not teaching in SL
Bisto Bock: no
Zotarah Shepherd: no
Bungy Bingyi: no
ericcgcc Yootz: nope
Ahlan Oh: n/a
Birdie Newcomb: programmatic, no
Ashy Viper: no
Lolly Dovgal: No
Spiral Theas: no.
Sheila Yoshikawa: sorry what do you mean by "programmatic assessment"?
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: problematic? perhaps
Wena Merlin: not yet
Olivia Hotshot: Interesting responses. Do you mind one more question?
Spiral Theas: assessment of learning gains, yes. but not programmatic assessment.
Zotarah Shepherd: I will be assessing for my fall class in Novenber if I get students.
Olivia Hotshot: Who here things assessment should stay out of SL entirely?
Olivia Hotshot: thinks*
Spiral Theas: I don't!
Twang Watanabe: not me
Professor Madrigal: no
Birdie Newcomb: standard assessment yes
Katie Fenstalker: depends maybe.
Tim Wikinger: depends on definition of assessment
Ashy Viper: nope
ericcgcc Yootz: same as rl class space
Bluesky Larkham: we should be looking to use assessment in sl
Olivia Hotshot: (waiting for iggy)
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Oliva, you want the "prima dona faculty" answer?
Alan Sandalwood: Depends on course objectives
Lolly Dovgal: Not me.
Ahlan Oh: depends on what an assessment would be used for
Aselin Arrowmint: depends
Geoff Lumley: Depends what you're assessing
Bisto Bock: agreed... depends
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: I do only as little assessment as I have to to please our agency
Olivia Hotshot: All good comments.
Lolly Dovgal: Assessment can really prove the worthiness of SL in education.
Professor Madrigal: indeed
Profdan Netizen: shouldn't be any more stringent than f2f
Zotarah Shepherd: I dream of a world where the olny assessment is done by the student.
Spiral Theas: Assessment is a route to improving what we are doing.
Olivia Hotshot: OK< then here is how we willstart: Lets talk about what sort of assessment we WOULD like to do, when we start doing it.
Birdie Newcomb: peer assessment
Katie Fenstalker: what's the difference between assessment and data collection about many aspects?
Alan Sandalwood: Assesment in SL or Assesment on work in SL?
Alfredo Radford: it is already here, implicit in this event and your question
Spiral Theas: The assessment should reflect the environment....
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: this is the final year I will do portfolios since the first year comp program will end
Olivia Hotshot: Assessment = usually connected to student learning outcomes.
Spiral Theas: So it should look and feel like whatever it is the students are doing in SL.
Olivia Hotshot: Data = just that- data.
npellas Passariello: usability ssmesmnt
Bluesky Larkham: sorry I thought you meant assessing students not evaluating a course
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: our rubric is online at http://www.virtualworldsedu.info/103rating.html
Olivia Hotshot: Bluesky, we are talking about student assessment.
Joy Rembrandt: student assessment or learning assessment?
Kali Pizzaro: as in there formative or summative assessment ?
Katie Fenstalker: what if students learn stuff not in outcomes? will it not be visible then?
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: of the 20 sections assessed, we'll have one student in each. So for our program, one student using SL will have his or her writing compared to others
Tim Wikinger: I am hoping there is a role for formative assessment
hobbs Constantine: hmm...collaboration, teamwork, creativity?
Ahlan Oh: assessment is most useful as a way to understand learning difficulties for particular students or groups. as a means of checking whether a school is performing relative to others, forget it.
Kali Pizzaro: oh their
Spiral Theas: Yes, Tim, I agree.
Olivia Hotshot: Do we assess students the same in SL as we do in the actual world?
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: for our program, yes
Tim Wikinger: SL doesn't provide the environment to do that
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: we look at the writing, not the means of getting to the topic
Profdan Netizen: Same for us.
Lolly Dovgal: If we can, we should.
Spiral Theas: New medium/platform means new tools.
Bluesky Larkham: yes we can as some of the assessments move quite easily into sl
Tim Wikinger: Spiral I agree
Sheila Yoshikawa: well, yes, using the same principles as in RL, trying to align teaching, learning & assessment, and make it appropriate to learning outcomes
Geoff Lumley: That's an interesting question Olivia. The answer must be 'no', because we rely on them having different skills in SL to those in RL
Bluesky Larkham: OSCEs we can do in sl easily
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: it's hilarious. My portfolio is always the odd one--b/c it's printouts from a wiki
Spiral Theas: Well said, Sheila.
Ashy Viper: is the teaching method students based learning or teacher lecturing???
Kali Pizzaro: depends if you are teaching clinical skill or knowledge
Bluesky Larkham: yes kali
Kali Pizzaro: mine is problem based learning and clinical simulation
Profdan Netizen: Depends on how you use SL--if it's an online place for students to work, shouldn't be any different in assessment.
Olivia Hotshot: Spiral, care to say more about the new tools?
npellas Passariello: yes skills cognitive meta cognitive
Bluesky Larkham: they can write something like a patient records and be assessed on what they have decided to do
Bluesky Larkham: its really no different from an essay
Bluesky Larkham: or a case study
Olivia Hotshot: Everyone is much quieter than usual. Is this because there is confusion around assessment?
Jarrad Voom: well it is a little different
Profdan Netizen: RL intruding!
Sheila Yoshikawa: not least confusion about defining it , lol
Bluesky Larkham: oh I thought it was lag he he
Tim Wikinger: quiet?
Spiral Theas: I was just thinking that it's always important to assess in the same way that you teach.
Tim Wikinger: ok :)
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: don't say "skills" on my campus. We have to fit a rubric of goals, learning outcomes, and outcome measurements for SACS
Spiral Theas: And so I would like to try using more SL-based tools to assess student learning gains.
Jarrad Voom: SACS?
Spiral Theas: To test for understanding...
Profdan Netizen: We've always assessed writing in the same way, no matter the method of instruction.
Olivia Hotshot: Excellent ideas Spiral.
Tim Wikinger: lets talk about summative assessment, it is only possible with the right course?
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: sorry not Strategic Air Command...Southern Assn of Colleges and Schools is SACS
Ashy Viper: who's assessing who? are the educators assessing the students according to the outcomes or the students assessing the performance of the educators
Jarrad Voom: thank Ignatius
Katie Fenstalker: or assessing the program altogether?
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Ashy, different can of worms...student evals
Zotarah Shepherd: I would hope both Ashy
Lolly Dovgal: Interesting to think about...
Birdie Newcomb: reciprocal assessments would be useful
Olivia Hotshot: Ashy, this part of the conversation is about faculty assessing students. How do we want to do it in SL? Different than RR:? The same?
cyber Placebo: essential
Ashy Viper: ok but they hae to be different approaches
Bluesky Larkham: we have the opportunity to do things differently in a more
Alan Sandalwood: I think there can be confidence issues.
Olivia Hotshot: How so Alan?
Katie Fenstalker: assessing in particular terms of outcomes, not as grades -- how to portfolios contribute?
Bluesky Larkham: authentic way - more like rl
Profdan Netizen: Do you assess 2d online students differently than f2f?
cyber Placebo: first can some of you give examples of how the assess RL and give examples of how they asess in SL?
Aselin Arrowmint: Good question Profdan... my answer would be not really
Profdan Netizen: Then shouldn't be different here.
Olivia Hotshot: Cyber, the vote was that no one here is really doing yet.
Alan Sandalwood: If a student doesn't have confidence that their peers cannot cheat, they may have serious doubts regarding the validity of results.
Bluesky Larkham: that's difficult if you are only just planning to do things
Geoff Lumley: I agree Alan. We have to be careful not to let competence - as in knowing how to utilize SL - get in the way of the assessment
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: @Katie, depends on the field of study. For writing, we look at writing developmentally and score the portfolio as a picture of a writer's development over an entire term.
Bethany Velde: I believe a portfolio/project based assessment would be better than a "test" situation
Tim Wikinger: agreed
Alan Sandalwood: We are trying to working around this problem for our Blended course.
cyber Placebo: ok so let's take an example of RL assessment and see whether it is adaptable?
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: point of clarification: our SL courses are all face to face...they use SL 95% of the time outside class.
cyber Placebo: why do it all in Sl anyway
cyber Placebo: there are ample tools out there to combine balanced assessment
Spiral Theas: I like to have students work with images.
Spiral Theas: (I teach biology)
Spiral Theas: And so, after they've been in SL, working with a cell structure unit I built.
cyber Placebo: I like students to work with sound
Bethany Velde: Some can't....the blind for instance
Geoff Lumley: It would not be fair to a student if his/her 'result' was coloured by his/her ability to manipulate the avatar
cyber Placebo: (languages)
Sheila Yoshikawa: In terms of my students, they are reflecting on, or using products of SL activities, in their assessments. They analyse transcripts of SL intrerviews and reflect on the experience of interviewing in one class: in another they have to propose a way of using SL for learning, but don't have to implement it a;;
Spiral Theas: I'd like to see them draw and represent the structures they just manipulated.
Joy Rembrandt: the requirement of a hybrid course and a strictly virtual learning environment is quite different
cyber Placebo: yes sheila
Bethany Velde: (Aslo a member of VA)
cyber Placebo: can't sims n Sl provide matter for writing
Katie Fenstalker: SL as example of new technologies and media.... not sure what outcomes are appropriate?
Profdan Netizen: Geoff, how would that be any different than with 2D online students--some have work affected by weak computer skills?
cyber Placebo: reflection
cyber Placebo: is that what we want to assess?
Bluesky Larkham: @spiral - could they build the organs etc?
Tim Wikinger: reflection is an important keyword
Wena Merlin: I'm also interested in E-learning, Joy
Professor Madrigal: /would like to hear more about Joy's comment of hybrid vs virtual
Olivia Hotshot: What do you think about performance-based assessments in SL?
Sheila Yoshikawa: What we want to assess is bound to differ a bit depending on what subject we teach
Geoff Lumley: Prof: one has to be careful not to assess competence in using the tools if this is not a desired learning outcome
Tim Wikinger: agreed Sheila
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: it's sad, Katie, but not ONE criterion in our assessment tool looks at the use of technology of any sort
Lolly Dovgal: Geoff, so true.
Joy Rembrandt: complete online courses must first consider if students are comfortable w the technology, and if teacher is not there, that is in itself a tough problem
Kali Pizzaro: like what Olivia
Bluesky Larkham: but what if it is a desired LO
Profdan Netizen: But the tools have to be transparent enough not to interfere. For some students, they aren't,
Spiral Theas: Yes, that's right Bluesky.
Ashy Viper: how can you be sure of the authenticity of the performance Olivia?
Katie Fenstalker: (can assessment get at learning that is unexpected? or am I being too negative?)
Tim Wikinger: Ignatius what about assessment as part of the learning process?
Olivia Hotshot: Well, for example , and actual build.
Spiral Theas: Sorry, I'm having trouble keeping up with the chat!!!
Oronoque Westland: I teach blended courses. My teaching methods have changed since experiencing Web 2.0, SL, etc.....but that has impacted my F2F as well as online behavior. I cannot make a sharp distinction between F2F assessments and SL assessments philosophically. Only in practical terms (e.g. is the learner standing in the physical classroom and talking or in SL and talking/chatting). Project or authentic work in both places.
Profdan Netizen: whether in 2d or 3d web.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: @Tim--not sure I follow you. How so?
Sheila Yoshikawa: I'm not teaching use of SL and am also teaching social science subjects, not very "concrete"
Katie Fenstalker: @iggy. that is sad.
Tim Wikinger: well, summative assessment tends to be written down in protocols, but assessment can play an important role in the formative side of teaching
Bluesky Larkham: well we need students to have specific IT skills and communication skills
Katie Fenstalker: @ Tim -- formative?
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: @Katie, it's our tenure system. Not enough incentive and rewards. Tech = Blackboard and that is not usually pedagogically transformative, only convenient.
Olivia Hotshot: 43 people in sm = i retract my small meeting comment
Ahlan Oh: (sorry, got to scoot)
Tim Wikinger: formative as in to shape
Bluesky Larkham: no it should be summative in the near future
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Thanks Tim. I understand now.
Katie Fenstalker: (thx Iggy)
Jarrad Voom: I guess that is the root of my problem. I think the learning objects of the course are the same and therefore the assessment tools should be the same.
Spiral Theas: Right, Tim. Formative, to shape our thinking, refine our activities, improve effectiveness.
Lolly Dovgal: Good turnout, Olivia, and very interactive conversation.
Joy Rembrandt: i think both formative and summative, why restrict to one
Spiral Theas: Right, Joy. We need to do both.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: We are doing summative assessment at Richmond..our faculty tend to be very dissmissive of assessment and do as little as possible (wealthy private school--curse and blessing)
Olivia Hotshot: Iggy, would yo umind talking a bit more about the rubric you use to assess student learning? (Thanks Lolly.)
Tim Wikinger: because SL does not offer the right tools for summative atm
Profdan Netizen: Agreed, Jarrad.
Tim Wikinger: I see Iggy
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: @Olivia, we devised it long before I used SL
Olivia Hotshot: If we could hold for a moment, lets let Iggy tell us about the rubric.
Katie Fenstalker: (is still worried about unexpected learning and a place for it. But mayb enot assesment?)
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: it came from our Core course, a program like Chicago's
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: we wanted to add something for the development of writers
Ashy Viper: holding
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: as they move from early drafts to later ones
Jarrad Voom: Different ways to teach maybe and learn but the assess ment should be the same.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: and use outside sources b/c Core is only primary texts and "hard thinking about hard books"
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: so we developed the rubric now online
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: at http://www.virtualworldsedu.info/103rating.html
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: to be honest, I don't even have to do that much
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: as coordinator of the writing program
Olivia Hotshot: Iggy, do the students find the rubric approach helpful?
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: They never know they are assessed
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: one is selected at random in each section
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: and the work blind-reviewed by readers at the end of term
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: I'll add one thing
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: my writer last year did really well
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: but no way to see if SL made a difference
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: He was already a strong writer!
Olivia Hotshot: How do the SL students compare to the actual world students?
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: not enough data yet to tell in my case
Joy Rembrandt: that is the real question
Alfredo Radford: perhaps before you start you need to thin about why you are assessing, and for whom. you r objectives your curriculum your hidden curriculum, and then your choice of assessment comes naturally, so why are you teaching in \SL?
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: anyone else?
Profdan Netizen: Our comp students submit a portfolio of two revised pieces and are externally evaluated.
Profdan Netizen: All of them.
Profdan Netizen: Around a thousand a semester.
Olivia Hotshot: yikes.
Profdan Netizen: We read each others.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Dan's method could be useful to see any difference in engagement and outcomes for SL/non SL classes
Olivia Hotshot: Indeed.
Olivia Hotshot: Anyone else with a question for Iggy? Or dan for that mater.
Kali Pizzaro: yeah
Oronoque Westland: @profdan...external to your institution?
Profdan Netizen: We'll be putting the very first section through this semester.
Profdan Netizen: no,
Profdan Netizen: external to the classroom instructor.
Profdan Netizen: In other words,
Kali Pizzaro: so how do you ensure the person taking the assessment is your student
Profdan Netizen: two other instructors will evaluate my students,
Professor Madrigal: good point
Joy Rembrandt: the root problem of online edu
Profdan Netizen: and I'll do the same to two other sections.
Sheila Yoshikawa: @Iggy you said "They never know they are assessed" - so they don't get feedback?
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: in our case, the profs collect the material and give it to me
Joy Rembrandt: off site proctored exam center
Kali Pizzaro: not saying it they will cheat just wondering
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: I check it against the randomly selected names
Jarrad Voom: I think the value of SL is that it allows different ways to develop student engagement. I don't mean better I mean different.
Profdan Netizen: How do you assure a f2f student is who he or she says they are?
Alfredo Radford: by the same token how do you know your student is your student
Kali Pizzaro: good point Jarrad
Tim Wikinger: agreed Jarrad
Kali Pizzaro: haha Alfredo
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: good point, Dan!
Katie Fenstalker: (our RL assessments are of program tho students, not student centered so they don't know. Not about them in particular.)
Profdan Netizen: But--my section is hybrid, f2f and online.
Profdan Netizen: Though I have another section fully online, 2d, using Angel learning system.
Kali Pizzaro: so do you assess summative assessment in Sl. Did i miss that
Alan Sandalwood: Students here do assume there is cheating unless they see the school energetically preventing it
Alfredo Radford: that issue of identity forces a totally different approach, RL apporaches arealmost impossible
Oronoque Westland taught for 8 years in a univ with external examiners...it hindered creativity
Geoff Lumley: Depend what you ask your external examiners to do Oro
Kali Pizzaro: indeed
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: @Oronoque, that's the issue for us. The faculty feel put upon and to be honest, they are great teachers or they'd not get tenured at Richmond.
Kali Pizzaro: should be checking due process nothing else
Alan Sandalwood: @Oronoque. External "consultants" often have their own agenda.
Profdan Netizen: Our biggest challenge is that most comp classes are taught by adjunct,
Alfredo Radford: indeed kali though even that is problematic
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: here too, Dan
Geoff Lumley: Agreed kali. That's how it works in UK. The examiners don't examine, they provide assurance that the assessment is fair
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: one reason we are ending the program
Profdan Netizen: always have from 7-15 new teachers every year.
Katie Fenstalker: so shouldn't be about how good teachers are but trends in what is happening with students?
Olivia Hotshot: OK, folks, lets shift gears a bit and move to the other part of the puzzle to be tackled today - What about program assessment? How or what should we be doing to assess our own teaching, our education builds, and the lessons taught in SL?
Kali Pizzaro: think external may mean something different in the UK
Sheila Yoshikawa: @Geoff, good point in UK - but in teh USA I don't think they have external examiners in the same way as the UK
Lolly Dovgal: Olivia, that is a big question!
Geoff Lumley appreciates that
Olivia Hotshot: It is Lolly.
Bluesky Larkham: are we in any position to answer it yet?
Kali Pizzaro: module evaluation, feedback from students, progression, peer observation
Zotarah Shepherd: Usually we have students assess us at the end of the semester.
Kali Pizzaro: pilot studies
Marc Rexen: ...and what if it's just "Office Hours," for f2f classes?
Olivia Hotshot: Not sure Bluesky, but at some point we are going to have to tell if we are effective educators.
Jarrad Voom: Sound fun though I would love to teach, and have someone else assess.
Professor Madrigal: I have them do formative for me midway
Katie Fenstalker: are teacher evaluations the same as assessments? no rubrics, no outcomes for students to judge?
Olivia Hotshot: @Marc, have you used SL for office hours?
Bluesky Larkham: yes we have to assess it but we are not even sure of the "best" ways of teaching yet
Zotarah Shepherd: I would ask students to give me feedback at any point during the term
Joy Rembrandt: learning assessment must be separate from faculty assessment, muddles result
Marc Rexen: I haven't, but they are being used that way for one College.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: now here I do want assessment--will my build improve comprehension of content? Deepen interest in Poe's writing, for instance?
Bungy Bingyi: Seems like the crux of this is "You don't know what you don't know."
Katie Fenstalker: deepen interest or add analytic method?
Jarrad Voom: Every class every term is evaluated by students through a meaningless questionnaire.
Spiral Theas: Sorry, all, I have to run. RL calls.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: @Katie--two different things but both are key
Bluesky Larkham: @Iggy, yes that's the sort of thing we could do with
Sheila Yoshikawa: lol Jarrad
Katie Fenstalker: yes. Iggy.
Tim Wikinger: bye Spiral
Olivia Hotshot: bye spiral.
Sheila Yoshikawa: bye Spiral
Profdan Netizen: What I'd like to see is whether or not SL improves persistence and retention especially among online students.
Oronoque Westland: my students do "reflective journals" on each theme (~ 2 weeks), comment on the learning experience, make critiques, etc
Kali Pizzaro: you away spiral i will catch up later
Zotarah Shepherd: If the questionnaire is meaningless maybe you need better questions.
AgileBill Firehawk: anyone do mid term assessments in order to have time to fix problems - rather than at end of the course? (ciao Spiral)
Kali Pizzaro: exactly ZO
Alan Sandalwood: Goodbye All, got to go
Katie Fenstalker: assessment for Sl learning different for entirely online education vs. hybrid?
Geoff Lumley: Ciao Alan
Jarrad Voom: I sure do but the institution does the assessment
Professor Madrigal: mid term very valuable
AgileBill Firehawk: cool
Sheila Yoshikawa: tho some questionnaires result from other pressures e.g. in the UK preparing for the National Student Survey
Kali Pizzaro: i do assessment to feed forward to the summative
Aselin Arrowmint: I used SL in my online course... student evaluation at the end... many students said it helped with participation and understanding - but it could have been the synchronous part of it all
Sheila Yoshikawa: *National Student Survey* (meaningless questionnaire administered to whole of final year uni population in UK)
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: The UT one-year experiment will be ground-breaking for all of this
Kali Pizzaro: Hahah Sheila
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: I'm sure they'll do a lot of assessment for all 15 (or is it 16?) sites in SL
Katie Fenstalker: @Iggy what is that?
Olivia Hotshot: Iggy, heck yes.
Profdan Netizen: Aselin, have you used synchronous tools in 2d online courses?
Aselin Arrowmint: Yes
Kali Pizzaro: fab
Profdan Netizen: Did you see a difference?
Kali Pizzaro: Iggy link please
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: UT's rollout...link is here: https://blogs.secondlife.com/community/learninginworld/blog/2009/09/15/the-first-statewide-rollout-of-a- virtual-world-learning-environment-the-university-of-texas-system-in-second-life
Kali Pizzaro: thank you
Aselin Arrowmint: @Profdan - yes, I did... one students said that seeing an avatar was very helpful - in getting to know my personality, etc
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: sorry for that long link. Pathfinder's post on the UT program
Katie Fenstalker: ty Iggy
Tim Wikinger: thanks
Profdan Netizen: That's what I'm finding, Aselin, in my very limited exp. of the last few weeks.
Oronoque Westland: @Aselin...I was a black widow spider a few hours ago (good thing none of my students as around)
Profdan Netizen: lol
Aselin Arrowmint: lol
AgileBill Firehawk: lol!
Olivia Hotshot: too funny
Ignatius Onomatopoeia grins
Aselin Arrowmint: My students always loved to see how I "dressed"
Professor Madrigal: Alts are a wonderful option
Kali Pizzaro: that is one way to get numbers down
Kali Pizzaro: yum
Oronoque Westland: rofl
Jarrad Voom: lo
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: does anyone have links to assessment criteria for the transcript?
Alan Sandalwood: Bye all
Olivia Hotshot: Bye Alan.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: tc Alan
Aselin Arrowmint: (sorry - gotta run - bye all!)
Oronoque Westland: I have become more playful since using SL...the students see that and respond well socially...not sure of the learning impact yet
Olivia Hotshot: Oronoque- gotta love modeling the behavior you are after.
Serena Guardian: so long folks gotta run
Wena Merlin: I'd like to hear from you, Olivia, about assessment... how do you do it?
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: my favorite evaluation comment was something like "it takes a certain sort of crazy person to teach this way. He was just the man for the job."
Professor Madrigal grins
Profdan Netizen: Here are the writing standards we use to evaluate portfolios, Iggy: http://web.lcc.edu/personal/holtd/writingstandards.htm
AgileBill Firehawk: any data correlating play w/ learning velocity, retention, and application?
Olivia Hotshot: Wena, i teach faculty. I only asses by how much they throw or don't throw at me.
Jarrad Voom: HI Venus
Kali Pizzaro: http://www.jisc.ac.uk/search.aspx?keywords=assessment+in+virtual+worlds&collection=default_collection&type=adv [Iggy's note--the link was not pulling up any information when I tried it...try http://www.jisc.ac.uk plus the search string "virtual worlds"].
Profdan Netizen: And explanation of how the portfolio assessment works: http://web.lcc.edu/personal/holtd/writ121/index.htm#portfolio
Kali Pizzaro: might be something useful in here
Kali Pizzaro: above
Katie Fenstalker: (@Olivia -- LOL good criteria)
Venus Quintessa: i'm here
Venus Quintessa: wrong clothes
Venus Quintessa: and all
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: @Agile, note hard data but Albert Rouzie's book At Play in the Fields of Writing provides good theoretical grounding for the role of play
Oronoque Westland: Hi Venus
Chimera Cosmos: crash..............ed
AgileBill Firehawk: thanks!!
Venus Quintessa: hi Oronoque
Olivia Hotshot: But, i do have thoughts on assessment.... i think it is a necessary evil, but i do not think assessment of SL learning necessarily needs to be done in SL> Journaling- for example - is a good tool.
Venus Quintessa: what is this place?
Bluesky Larkham: yes Olivia I agree
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: hopefully not your worst nightmare but a great place to learn about teaching in SL :)
Kali Pizzaro: Hi venus welcome to SL roundtable
Venus Quintessa: thank you.
Chimera Cosmos: (this is a weekly meeting of educators Venus)
Venus Quintessa: this is great.
Venus Quintessa: can I join?
Kali Pizzaro: indeed thanks Chimera
Oronoque Westland: definitely
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: @Venus, today we're talking assessment and you are most welcome to join us!
Venus Quintessa: how?
Kali Pizzaro: welcome
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: I'll add you to our group now
Chimera Cosmos: come and sit and discuss ;-)
Olivia Hotshot smiles.
Kali Pizzaro: what a guy
Tim Wikinger: lol Kali
Venus Quintessa: thank you.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Hillbilly hospitality
Venus Quintessa: the music, is this what I should be hearing?
Kali Pizzaro: indeed at its best
Zotarah Shepherd: We are only using text
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: whatever AJ has on the sim...I have it turned down
Olivia Hotshot: Venus, we are discussing the exciting topic of assessment in text only.
Kali Pizzaro: so what about assessment. do you think we over assess our students anyway
Kali Pizzaro: in rl
Chimera Cosmos: the meeting is almost over - starts at 2:30 PM SLT each week
Venus Quintessa: oh dear -- I'm sorry for coming so late.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: @Kali, YES
AgileBill Firehawk: there can be survey burnout
Chimera Cosmos: no problem
Bluesky Larkham: yes we do over assess but those are the demands of our professional groups
Zotarah Shepherd looks for next weeks topic
Tim Wikinger: Kali, I think 'we' should assess them less and they should assess themselves more
Chimera Cosmos: people come when they can :-)
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: our new seminar program begins with the premise that faculty can be trusted
AgileBill Firehawk: I try to limit my number of questions
Olivia Hotshot grins at Chimera.
cyber Placebo: do any of you teach same course to students that are distance and some other on site?
Zotarah Shepherd: I agree Tim
Profdan Netizen: I do.
Professor Madrigal: I do.
cyber Placebo: same course
Profdan Netizen: Yes.
cyber Placebo: do you see a difference in student achievements?
Kali Pizzaro: others do but not me
Sheila Yoshikawa: @Kali, in terms of formative assessment (not to give marks but students to learn from) the evidence is that most people under assess
Zotarah Shepherd: Students should be more proactive in their education
Venus Quintessa: yes
AgileBill Firehawk: yes @Zo!
Kali Pizzaro: yeah formative assessment is under utilised me thinks
Geoff Lumley: Got to leave guys. Catch you all next week
Olivia Hotshot nods at Zo's comment.
Tim Wikinger: bye Geoff
Sheila Yoshikawa: bye geoff
Jarrad Voom: yes ZotaraH
Professor Madrigal: yes, a difference, but can't say one is better than the other
Kali Pizzaro: Bye Geoff
Bluesky Larkham: bye geoff
Venus Quintessa: you guys are fast.
Geoff Lumley: Cheerio all
Olivia Hotshot: bye geoff
Venus Quintessa: gye
Zotarah Shepherd: I would help them set their own goals
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: tc geoff..stay tuned for big announcement for next week
Professor Madrigal waves at those who are leaving
Profdan Netizen: No difference if student is up to speed with using online apps in an online class. If the apps are opaque to the student then there is a problem.
Venus Quintessa: what do you teach?
Kali Pizzaro: in preregistration nursing in the uk the professional body dictates the assessment and number of teaching hours
Kali Pizzaro: hours
Aphilo Aarde: Where will this transcript be posted?
Olivia Hotshot: OK, folks, going to shift gears one last time if i may?
Profdan Netizen: I teach first year composition and creative writing.
Oronoque Westland: I did research on results in F2F vs blended vs online for the same course once...hard to know what was due to the platform vs what was do to different pedagogies being applied even by the same instructor
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: @Dan...I'd love to see comparative analysis of SL classes with one-on-one orientations for newcomers to SL vs. those "tossed in" to the world
Venus Quintessa: I will be teaching a Black Studies course next term using S/L
Profdan Netizen: Agreed, Iggy.
Bungy Bingyi: Gonna head out too - thanks all for the lively discussion
Tim Wikinger: @Iggy ever read the article on Canadian Border Patrol?
Kali Pizzaro: bye Bungy
Venus Quintessa: bye
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: @Tim...I saw it but didn't read carefully. Can you sum up what they found?
Olivia Hotshot: We are about to conclude this session about Assessment now. Iggy has an announcement he needs to make. I also want to thank all of you for hanging with me while AJ is gone. Iggy will take the helm next week. Iggy when you are ready?
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: drumroll please
Tim Wikinger: they reckon that using SL improved pass figures significantly
Katie Fenstalker: thanks Olivia.
Kali Pizzaro: drum roll drum roll
Zotarah Shepherd: All the best with your class Venus
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: we had a change in plans for next week. And so....
Olivia Hotshot: welcome Katie.
Kali Pizzaro: Cheers Olivai
Birdie Newcomb: tatatada
Sheila Yoshikawa: @Oronoque, yes that's the problem with the studies that claim to "prove" one mode is better than another, there are usually in fact too many variables
Kali Pizzaro: Olivia
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: we have Jon Himoff, CEO of Rezzable
Venus Quintessa: I'm a nube so this group will be a big help
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: as our SPECIAL GUEST
Oronoque Westland: @Venus...I am teaching one with mandatory SL component for the first time this term
Kali Pizzaro: ohhhhhhhhhhhhh
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: to talk about his builds in SL
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: his decision to mostly leave SL
Venus Quintessa: great. we need to chat
Kali Pizzaro: security
AgileBill Firehawk: yes @Sheila
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Heritage Key
Sheila Yoshikawa: @Oronoque - I was agreeing with you BTW not implying criticism
Venus Quintessa: what's the course Orononque?
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: OpenSim, Builderbot
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: and more.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: this will be run in New World Notes and we expect a MOB [correction--info went to Chestnut Rau to late to make her deadline. As for the mob, we'll see...]
Venus Quintessa: michael jackson
Tim Wikinger: ah OpenSim, interesting
Kali Pizzaro: fab in Melbourne but might get on if i can work out the timedifference
Katie Fenstalker: leave SL for Open Sim?
cyber Placebo: New World notes Iggy?
cyber Placebo: world
AgileBill Firehawk: wow - stunning
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Yes
Kali Pizzaro: some of our folk in uni are doing that
Kali Pizzaro: we are certainly exploring it
Tim Wikinger: /raises hand
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: it will be a great meeting. I'll interview Jon using voice so send me Qs beforehand
Olivia Hotshot: I think we are going to have a big group for next week.
Kali Pizzaro: fab
Tim Wikinger: cool
Tim Wikinger: cool
Venus Quintessa: this group moves faster than I can read
Olivia Hotshot: Might be good to get here early for a seat.
Kali Pizzaro: yeah spread the word folks
Venus Quintessa: ok
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: And thanks, Tim. Do you have a link for the border patrol study?
Venus Quintessa: yes.. really, really cool
Tim Wikinger: yeah, one sec
AgileBill Firehawk: drat, I'll be on a plane - will look forward to the notes
Olivia Hotshot: We'll miss you Bil. =)
Chimera Cosmos: I'll be at a meeting in DC next week too.
Katie Fenstalker: yes. Iggy the notes are amazing!
Oronoque Westland: @ Venus...Caribbean International Relations (mostly economic development and transformation actually)
hobbs Constantine: safe travels Agile
Zotarah Shepherd: Use the Chat history to see anything you miss Venus
Oronoque Westland: @Venus...Iggy publishes the transcript each week
AgileBill Firehawk: thanks - you are all so wonderful
Kali Pizzaro: i will be in OZ Iggy but will try
Venus Quintessa: wow.. impressive
Oronoque Westland: @Kali...off to see the wizard?
Aphilo Aarde: Oronoque - What's the url, please?
Kali Pizzaro: hehe
Olivia Hotshot: Well everyone, on that note lets wrap it up until next week when Iggy rocks the house. Thanks again for coming. Without you our conversations would not be half as good.
cyber Placebo: @iggy New World notes what do you mean?
Venus Quintessa: I'll be teaching literature, using visual, textual, audio and S/L to discuss representation
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: thank YOU Olivia
Profdan Netizen: Here's one Iggy about retention, SL at a CC: http://www.reuters.com/article/pressRelease/idUS188356+23-Sep-2008+PRN20080923
AgileBill Firehawk: .-'`'-. APPLAUSE APPLAUSE .-'`'-.
Zotarah Shepherd: Thanks Olivia
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: @cyber--Hamlet Au's blog on SL--biggest game in town
Olivia Hotshot wiggles her ears in thanks.
Oronoque Westland: Iggy sends out a notice with the url
Venus Quintessa: got to run now. See you all next week
Kali Pizzaro: Cheers Olivia a sterling job over the last few weeks
Venus Quintessa: what's the topic then?
Olivia Hotshot: Thanks Kali. A nervous few weeks.
Aphilo Aarde: Is there a general url for these?
Jarrad Voom: Thanks Olivia
Katie Fenstalker: claps in appreciation -- I learn som much from this group.
Kali Pizzaro: AJ , Aj who. oh dont tell him
cyber Placebo: Choice, cheers iggy
Olivia Hotshot: Welcome Jarrod.
Tim Wikinger: https://journals.tdl.org/jvwr/article/view/374/449 [Link to PDF version of Journal of Virtual Worlds Research 2.1]
Olivia Hotshot smiles.
Sheila Yoshikawa: Yes, thank you Olivia
Tim Wikinger: that is the link
Professor Madrigal: Thanks, everyone!
Aphilo Aarde: I might link it to http://worlduniversity.wikia.com 's Second Life resources.
Tim Wikinger: thank you all
Aphilo Aarde: thanks
Olivia Hotshot: You are welcome to stay and chat. Have a great day everyone.
Venus Quintessa: bye
Zotarah Shepherd: Bye Olivia
Profdan Netizen: Bye, Olivia.
Olivia Hotshot: Bye all.
JeanClaude Vollmar: I'm hoping to be here next week. See you all then. Bye
Wena Merlin: see you all next week! Thanks for today!