Transcript of Second Life Education Roundtable: Sept. 8, 2009
Pedagogical /Andragogical* Issues in Second Life
*Andragogy: Teaching adults; an alternate term for "pedagogy," which applies to the teaching of children. See http://coe.sdsu.edu/eet/Articles/andragogy/index.htm
Links Noted: too many to pull out. They are linked in the transcript itelf
The objective of this conversation was to examine good practices for teaching and learning in virtual world settings.
Here are a few questions put out in advance to the group:
Included in this conversation we will want to have a discussion about what works and what does not, what disciplines seem to be targeted the most and perhaps why, specific educational issues, and how to create opportunities for learners with accessibility issues.
Resource and inspiration for these ideas come from http://www.slideshare.net/stevenw/virtuals-worlds-and-radical-pedagogy by Steven Harbuton. He made this presentation 2 years ago, yet the questions are still pertinent.
Olivia Hotshot: Hi everyone, and welcome to this weeks SL Education Roundtable.
Olivia Hotshot: These meetings are made possible by the Office of Information Technology at Montclair State University.
Olivia Hotshot: We meet here each week at 2:30pm SLT for an hour.
Olivia Hotshot: The SL Education Roundtable is a forum to educate and inform the community about issues that are important and relevant to education.
Olivia Hotshot: The views and opinions of any of our special guests or visitors do not necessarily represent those who volunteer or organize these meetings, or of
Chimera Cosmos: uh ho! no sitting on heads!
Olivia Hotshot: Montclair State University or the College of Humanities and Social Sciences or Office of Information Technology at Montclair State.
Olivia Hotshot: Our meetings are roundtable style, so those in the theater seats please come down and join us at the table.
Olivia Hotshot: Our magic expanding table will always have an empty seat, located closest to the ramp.
Olivia Hotshot: Our topic/theme today is Pedagogical /Andragogical Issues in Second Life.
Olivia Hotshot: This is a public meeting, so we do keep a transcript of what is said in local chat.
Olivia Hotshot: For a copy of transcripts, please visit http://www.virtualworldsedu.info/slroundtable/
Olivia Hotshot: Information on FUTURE MEETINGS is available from the notecard giver on the West wall of the Amphitheater.
Olivia Hotshot: We have an amazing lineup of meeting for you, with topics set (subject to change) between now and the end of December.
Olivia Hotshot: Special thanks to our resident scribe, Iggy Onomatopoeia, for taking care of this. If you've not seen the transcripts, you should check them out - they are a great information asset.
Olivia Hotshot: The SL Education Roundtable meeting happens each week and we are looking to develop a community of educators from around the world with a variety of thoughts, needs, and ideas.
Olivia Hotshot: Please join the SL EDUCATION ROUNDTABLE group. If you have problems finding it in search, here inside the amphitheater, on the Eastern wall, you will see a display
Olivia Hotshot: Clicking the and follow the instruction in local chat on how to join the group.
Olivia Hotshot: As the group grows, there will be announcements, surveys, and decisions made that will be exclusive to the group.
Olivia Hotshot: Aside from the island we are currently on, Montclair State University also has two other educational islands adjoining to the north.
Olivia Hotshot: There are also numerous learning areas on these adjoining islands, Montclair State CHSS, which is home to our Quidditch pitch and the SL MSU Library,
Olivia Hotshot: and Montclair State CEHSADP, which is home to The Theorist Project and Wilber Middle School Library. Wander around and enjoy.
Olivia Hotshot: If you are on Facebook, please join our group there - http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=44078263753&ref=share
Olivia Hotshot: Thanks to Olivia Hotshot for putting together a Flickr group for the SLER. I encourage everyone to join the group and to take pictures from our meeting and add them to the group. Its a great way to show, and grow, our community.
Olivia Hotshot: Finally, if you have Mystitool on, or other similar tool, please put it to sleep or detach it for now. :-) It tends to lag things.
Olivia Hotshot: As a hint, it is better to have "local chat" open for these meetings, it will help you follow the conversation better.
Olivia Hotshot: You can find local chat by clicking COMMUNICATE in the bottom navigation bar and you'll find LOCAL CHAT as one of the tabs at the bottom of the Communicate window.
Olivia Hotshot: I'd also like to remind folks to come on down and join us around the table, there's always an open seat closest to the ramp.
Olivia Hotshot: Why don't we get started they way we usually do, by introducing ourselves. No need to wait, go ahead and type who you are, where you are, and your ties to education into local chat.
Olivia Hotshot: I am Ann Steckel, an educational technology consultant and educator from California State University, Chico.
Katie Fenstalker: (blushes - what does Andragogical mean?)
Ignatius Onomatopoeia is Joe Essid, Dept. of Rhetoric and Communication Studies. I'm the University of Richmond's Writing Center and Writing Across the Curriculum Director. I've taught 3 classes in writing or lit with SL. I'm part of a design team building an immersive simulation of Poe's House of Usher, to launch in Spring 2010.
Aquiel Aero: Judy kelly, biology faculty henry ford community college
Margaret Michalski: Margaret Czart, Research Information Specialist, University of Illinois at Chicago
Grinn Pidgeon: Barbara Pittman, Cuyahoga Community College, Cleveland, OH
Olivia Hotshot: [please get a notecard from the giver on the center of the table.]
Katie Fenstalker: is Katie King, women's studies, University of Maryland, College Park
Computer Jewell: Angela Ambrosia from Rio Salado College
ericcgcc Yootz: eric greene adjunct faculty columbia gorge comm coll
CathyWyo1 Haystack: Cathy Anderson Academic Coordinator SD Board of Regents
Angelia Halsey: Linda Gilmore, DeKalb Technical College, Covington Georgia
Teri Boxen: teri lind Cal state University East Bay, Nursing
Esme Qunhua: Andragogy is an alternative word used in Higher ed for pedagogy (ped suggests how children learn)
Lolly Dovgal: is Laura Sederberg from CSU, Chico.
LoCE99Ch8 Morpork: Rosanna Brown, Lassen Community College Library, Susanville CA
Olivia Hotshot: ahh a good group today!
Katie Fenstalker: thx Esme!
Lolly Dovgal: Is this text chat only today?
Olivia Hotshot: Yes, lolly it is.
Chimera Cosmos: Liz Dorland, Washington U in St. Louis, MO USA
Lolly Dovgal: OK
Olivia Hotshot: OK, last call for introductions?
npellas Passariello: nick Pellas from Aristotle university Greece
Bathsheba Darkfold: Hi
Esme Qunhua: Jane Wilde Instructor of educational technology at Marlboro College, SUNY Albany and Castleton State. NY and VT in the US VWs researcher.
Noir Nagy: Noir nagy, Wake technical College.
Bathsheba Darkfold: I am Katie from Johns Hopkins Welch
Chimera Cosmos: Aristotle - nice!
Firery Broome: University of Delaware
Profesora Farigoule: LC Weaverling - Delaware Tech , DE USA Arch Engineering
Olivia Hotshot: OK, anyone else?
Bathsheba Darkfold: I am also a PHD student at Buffalo doing research on virtual worlds
mgfreitas Barcelos: Marco Freitas, Universidade Aberta, student, Portugal
Olivia Hotshot: First of all: [Andragogy: Teaching adults]
npellas Passariello: me to Darkfold
Olivia Hotshot: The objective of this conversation is to examine good practices for teaching and learning in virtual world settings.
Olivia Hotshot: The notecard from the box on the table has a list of possible conversation topics.
mgfreitas Barcelos: (good objective)
Olivia Hotshot: So shall we get started? I can't wait to hear your ideas.
Olivia Hotshot: Here are a few questions we might consider discussing during our hour together:
Olivia Hotshot: How long should in-world classes be? An hour? More than an hour? What is the tipping point?
Aphilo Aarde: (Hi Everyone - My voice isn't working presently, even after going to preferences. Will this be in type chat too?).
CathyWyo1 Haystack: ok I will start
Olivia Hotshot: Text chat.
npellas Passariello: ok like brainstorming
CathyWyo1 Haystack: I think it depends on the level of experience your students have
CathyWyo1 Haystack: in virtual wor4lds
Olivia Hotshot: First time it has been this quiet.
CathyWyo1 Haystack: being new in second life can be exhausting
Lolly Dovgal: Segments should be short with activities, but then, changes in topics or activities, can allow an instructor to go longer than if it was a straight hour lecture.
CathyWyo1 Haystack: just learning the environment
Olivia Hotshot: What if it is not a lecture. How long can we expect people to be engaged?
CathyWyo1 Haystack: so maybe those first few session should only be an hour
Grinn Pidgeon: I guess we're assuming a synchronous class
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: I did *five* one-on-one orientations for SL today. An hour each was plenty
Olivia Hotshot: Grinn, not always.
CathyWyo1 Haystack: if a student gets in to the "flow"
CathyWyo1 Haystack: then it can their call
Esme Qunhua: Most people find that time flies in SL
Noir Nagy: Ihave had classes last an hour and a haolf here, but rarely do people stay that long.
npellas Passariello: i think because SL is a constructivism environment
Katie Fenstalker: lots of interaction.
Lolly Dovgal: If students are engaged, I think time is less relevant.
Noir Nagy: Usually an hour seems to be it.
CathyWyo1 Haystack: beyond what ever structure for the class
CathyWyo1 Haystack: I agree @lolly
npellas Passariello: students may have more time
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: some are back on right now, after their orientation. I see them online :)
CathyWyo1 Haystack: there could be some structured time
Aphilo Aarde: I agree, Lolly, and that has a lot to do with what the teacher is teaching, and how structured it is.
CathyWyo1 Haystack: @iggy that's great
CathyWyo1 Haystack: good orientation makes all the difference
CathyWyo1 Haystack: i believe
Olivia Hotshot: So the question is, is time treated differently in-world than face-to-face?
Olivia Hotshot: Is that a good thing?
Lolly Dovgal: YES
Teri Boxen: good question
Esme Qunhua: My synch classes are typically 3 hours. But we change activities almost every half hour
Katie Fenstalker: works well with multiple forms of communication -- notecards along with things to do along with talking and interacting.
Olivia Hotshot waves to Zotarah.
CathyWyo1 Haystack: depends on the class
Noir Nagy: doe it not depend on how the class is formatted? A discussion will work longer than a lecture, and so on.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: yes. It's more interactive. I don't lecture anyway for more than 10 min in a conventional class.
CathyWyo1 Haystack: the study area may drive that
Zotarah Shepherd waves to Olivia
npellas Passariello: it depends when you speak it like face to face
Katie Fenstalker: I'm trying to do more SL type things in RL class too.
Olivia Hotshot: How long do you feel comfortable teaching in-world? Is it more tiring?
Lolly Dovgal: Many professors lecture way too long, I think.
Esme Qunhua: If you team is planning or building or meeting with others then you need time.
Aquiel Aero: it is more tiring when i have to text chat
Aquiel Aero: voice is easier
Aquiel Aero: voice is easier
Aquiel Aero: voice is easier
Katie Fenstalker: collaborative work takes more time.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Our class never meets as a group in-world. In class we write or talk. I meet small groups and one-on-one out of class for projects.
Aphilo Aarde: I've taught 2 hour classes, with lecture and conversation - "Society and Information Technology" on Berkman Island
Esme Qunhua: I'm with Katie. SL has made me a better RL teacher
Lolly Dovgal: If students are asked to engage in group activities, then share back to the whole group, they can be engaged longer.
Olivia Hotshot smiles.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: @Lolly--that's the key.
Olivia Hotshot: Has anyone here (who will admit it) worked for 8 hours straight inworld?
Esme Qunhua: YES
Lolly Dovgal: But how do we Prove that is effective? How to we influence educators to try that?
CathyWyo1 Haystack: wonders what is wrong with that
Noir Nagy: A few times
CathyWyo1 Haystack: laughs
Katie Fenstalker: haven't done that with students, have done with other groups.
LoCE99Ch8 Morpork: I agree that group or even individual activities may call for a longer class period.
Firery Broome: I have
Chimera Cosmos: Hi Cathy :-)
Chimera Cosmos: *waves*
npellas Passariello: we maybe ask them a questionnaire
Esme Qunhua: How many of you play an instrument and have spent 8 hours doing so. If you are engaged it happens
Olivia Hotshot: OK, lets try a new question. Great answers. I wondered if i was alone ont he time questions. Appears not.
CathyWyo1 Haystack: I wouldn't want to stigmatize second life as a game by finding fault with being in-world
Olivia Hotshot: What should immersive learning and teaching look like? Will it be participatory or observation with typing/listening?
Olivia Hotshot: Nest question please? Anyone feel free to jump in.
CathyWyo1 Haystack: I have my internet browser open all day
CathyWyo1 Haystack: is there a difference?
Aquiel Aero: i think participatory is important
Aquiel Aero: sl is about doing
Katie Fenstalker: Immersive = ? all the senses?
Computer Jewell: participatory
CathyWyo1 Haystack: as well as creating
CathyWyo1 Haystack: self directed
Olivia Hotshot: great descriptors here.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: students as "critical co-investigators" of a subject...that's immersive. They lose track of time easily.
Lolly Dovgal: sl is DOING and REFLECTING
Katie Fenstalker: like co-investigators!
Praxislady Witt: Yes, I do many 8 hrs in-world.
Lolly Dovgal: I think the sense are very involved in learning in SL
CathyWyo1 Haystack: so its important to engage them early
LoCE99Ch8 Morpork: I'm just out of a workshop about a project with RL participation running all over campus using a variety of Web 2.0 tools.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: @Katie...blame Paulo Freire
Aphilo Aarde: What have been the most exciting times for us teaching, where time seems to slip away?
Esme Qunhua: SL is teams co-creating
CathyWyo1 Haystack: so they are involved in an activity that is meaningful
CathyWyo1 Haystack: engaging
CathyWyo1 Haystack: and immerses them in the environment
Katie Fenstalker: (nods head to Freire)
Aphilo Aarde: And what was unique about teaching in SL that made this occur?
CathyWyo1 Haystack: as well as one that illustrates why they are doing what they are dong
Olivia Hotshot: Do adult learners engage in SL education like non-adult learners? Is there a difference in your experiences?
Katie Fenstalker: (no experience with that difference)
Aquiel Aero: I have a number of adult students in my classes this fall and i find the idea of sl is very new to them
Lolly Dovgal: I haven't taught in SL, so I am really interested to hear the answers to Olivia's question.
Aquiel Aero: they feel like they are not sure they get it
CathyWyo1 Haystack: adults may need to see a clear connection between the activities and what they are learning
npellas Passariello: may be n9o all of the
LoCE99Ch8 Morpork: SL is most worthwhile as a teaching environment when students are immersed and "critical co-investigators."
Katie Fenstalker: being explicit about what is usually tacit?
CathyWyo1 Haystack: @morpork yes
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: One colleague only here tried SL with non-traditional students...they were terrified. To them, it's a "game" and should not be in a writing course.
Olivia Hotshot: co-investigators is a cool name
CathyWyo1 Haystack: good point
Katie Fenstalker: (like it as game....)
Sheila Yoshikawa: My masters students in their 20s and some older, engaged more willingly and "seriously" than 18-19 year olds in my experience
LoCE99Ch8 Morpork: *immersed
Olivia Hotshot: Let me toss in a side question now:
Olivia Hotshot: Which is better, or not, augmenting curriculum with SL activities. OR Fully immersing in an activity?
Lolly Dovgal: How EXPLICIT do instructions for learning activity in SL have to be?
Esme Qunhua: All of my students are adult students - Masters level. by 3rd of way through they GET IT
LoCE99Ch8 Morpork: Depends on the class.
Noir Nagy: Perhaps API use would be best for those that are easily distracted. it can limit where they go to your sims.
npellas Passariello: thats true because thy thin other things
Computer Jewell: Depends on the class
CathyWyo1 Haystack: again I think it depends on the course
Katie Fenstalker: both in different contexts?
CathyWyo1 Haystack: need to develop critical thinking skills, decision making
Sheila Yoshikawa: I would say it depends what is most meaningful - if there is a good reason to have it all in SL or not
CathyWyo1 Haystack: I think the less structure the better
Aquiel Aero: my adult students are in their 40's and 50's after losing their jobs in the auto industry in Michigan
npellas Passariello: like taxonomy skills of Gagne?
Praxislady Witt: Adult learners are 'selective' learners. "what is in it for me?
Esme Qunhua: I think goals should be explicit, but there is already too much explicit instruction in school
Aquiel Aero: so just taking an online class is new to them
CathyWyo1 Haystack: yes @praxilady
Olivia Hotshot: 36 people in the sim at the moment (for the record)
Katie Fenstalker: (I'm a less structure person but some structure in SL keeps people from being lost and lonely perhaps?)
Praxislady Witt: vs. dependent learners, younger who do depend on the instructur for guidance on all information given.
CathyWyo1 Haystack: Yes @katie some guidance initially is important
CathyWyo1 Haystack: it can be lonely
LoCE99Ch8 Morpork: Explicit goals, flexible means.
CathyWyo1 Haystack: I remember that from my newby days
CathyWyo1 Haystack: I really didn't feel comfortable until I read 2nd Life for Dummies
CathyWyo1 Haystack: and that was six months after my rez day
Noir Nagy: even in RL we have to have explicit and specific goals for a class before we present it. why would SL be different?
Olivia Hotshot: SL can be a very lonely place until you join groups. Just look at all the new friends SLER has given us all.
Sheila Yoshikawa: explicit goals and reasons for them, but scaffolding for acivities rather than strict "instructions"
Praxislady Witt: Yes, @ Noir!
Katie Fenstalker: Groups matter. So which groups should students join?
Sheila Yoshikawa: yes Noir like RL!
Katie Fenstalker: beyond the class?
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Millennials (born since 1982) are well known to CRAVE structure and set goals
Olivia Hotshot: @Shelia - i love the idea of scaffolding in SL.
Noir Nagy: perhaps the first class would best be a live class on campus of how to use SL.
Morgen String: Yes, and peer collaboration
Lolly Dovgal: (This is a great conversation. I'm learning a lot.)
LoCE99Ch8 Morpork: NCI
Olivia Hotshot: @Katie - excellent question.
Esme Qunhua: I like to give each of my students (or help them find) ROLES reasons to be here.
npellas Passariello: not all of them
Katie Fenstalker: I'd like to suggest some good groups to them too.
Katie Fenstalker: NCI?
Esme Qunhua: ISTE
Esme Qunhua: THIS one
LoCE99Ch8 Morpork: New Citizens Inc.
Sheila Yoshikawa: lol
Zotarah Shepherd: Groups to join depends on your subject and interests
Katie Fenstalker: This one. depends on student tho.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: NMC orientation is a good place for them to start
CathyWyo1 Haystack: look for things that interest them and
Morgen String: lol
Bathsheba Darkfold: I think non profit commons has a lot of great groups
Noir Nagy: SL provides APIs that can be made by your school. people log in with your software, and you have some control over where they go and what they do as a school.
CathyWyo1 Haystack: can find plenty of things and groups
Olivia Hotshot: Does anyone know of some student organized groups?
Praxislady Witt: First, get the new person familiar with their AV. Until they over come the fascination of their AV, attention span is limited...
Sheila Yoshikawa: yes, if they aren't education students then it would be different groups
Esme Qunhua: Depends on the topic of the course and student interests
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: SLURL is...http://slurl.com/secondlife/NMC%20Orientation/128/128/2
Katie Fenstalker: yes non profit commons good for women's studies....
Noir Nagy: I am not saying limiting sl is necessary, but for early classes it might be helpful.
Zotarah Shepherd: And of course the SLED list.
Dagmar Kojishi: I apologize if I'm bumping anyone. Things are still rezzing for me.
CathyWyo1 Haystack: Once I discovers search and events
Olivia Hotshot: No worries Dagmar.
CathyWyo1 Haystack: Now I go to poetry readings, book reading and discussions
CathyWyo1 Haystack: there is something all the time
Olivia Hotshot: @Cathy - i agree with that too.
CathyWyo1 Haystack: (not to mention live music and dancing)
Katie Fenstalker: @Cathy do you ever use the LL events list?
Praxislady Witt: Each class should have their own group established, then expand to others that are more relevant to the need
CathyWyo1 Haystack: I checked it for tonight in fact
CathyWyo1 Haystack: yes
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: In my first class w/ SL, I made the terrible mistake of telling them "just go explore"
CathyWyo1 Haystack: haha
Firery Broome: yes
Katie Fenstalker: explore. good but not enough.
Firery Broome: Very bad
Aquiel Aero: and what did they do iggy?
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Now they get three LM folders right away: for culture, education...and...SHOPPING :)
Chimera Cosmos: need "guided exploration" haha
Olivia Hotshot: So it seems to me that the group has a variety of opinions, but that type of course and goals are what drives the immersion.
ericcgcc Yootz: @ignatius - what happened?
Katie Fenstalker: free shopping or money too?
Praxislady Witt: Heck even with fine tuned groups on a tour can be wiely
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: @Aquiel, they got in trouble.
Firery Broome: I see those students all the time and end up telling them what they should have been told in a class.
CathyWyo1 Haystack: There is so much in second life
mgfreitas Barcelos: Yes, variety of opinions
CathyWyo1 Haystack: that you can either create or that is al ready created
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: I give them a Linden dollar allowance now and they do a scavenger hunt with prizes to explore in a structured way
Chimera Cosmos: anyone else been to Syncretia yet?
CathyWyo1 Haystack: museums
Chimera Cosmos: just opened over the weekend - Alpha Auer
Noir Nagy: Sometimes shopping is bad because the freebies have landmarks that are not very good places for early visitation.
CathyWyo1 Haystack: art galleries
Katie Fenstalker: how much money Iggy? [IggyÕs note: missed this Q: 50L + more bonuses as rewards during the scavenger hunt]
Sheila Yoshikawa: I concentrate on freebies re shopping but some groups are good too as regards group gifts
Firery Broome: yes Chimera
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: please post URLs/SLURLs here for the transcript
Esme Qunhua: Well Iggy and Firery raise an interesting point. New teachers need to know some things before they bring students in, and still we all make mistakes.
Chimera Cosmos: sp
Chimera Cosmos: cool isn't it Fiery :-)
Olivia Hotshot: "the disappearing computer - where do our bodies go when we are immersed?" How can good pedagogy and andragogy enhance a sense of self?
Firery Broome: VERY
Olivia Hotshot: OK, can we move to another idea? I want to go to the quote i posted ont he notecard and get your opinion. Many times when i am n SL, i "forget" i am inworld. So lets see what you think of this one.
Birdie Newcomb: true
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: @Noir..Milky 9 can be good if you go with them...it does not permit scripts to run. It's a freebie store
CathyWyo1 Haystack: oh my body doesn't go anywhere --it reminds my that my back is aching from sitting too long
Katie Fenstalker: my body is right here. Immersive fallacy as some say? Double consciousness I love it.
Olivia Hotshot: am i the only one who forgets the actual world?
CathyWyo1 Haystack: my brain is engaged
Katie Fenstalker: I love doing both at the same time. That's immersion to me.
ericcgcc Yootz: @olivia could be
Olivia Hotshot: Oh Katie tell us more!
CathyWyo1 Haystack: that's all that matters
Zotarah Shepherd: The what?
Dagmar Kojishi: I can forget the actual world. But then, I do that also with a good book, or a good movie.
mgfreitas Barcelos: sometimes, I forget too the RL
Esme Qunhua: I like to take students surfing and biking - just to help them begin to feel their AVs bodies.
Katie Fenstalker: play -- both the thing and something more.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: SL is more immersive than is Metaplace, which I also like.
Firery Broome: Gnubie Store in Powder Mill is great for freebies
Sheila Yoshikawa: yes
CathyWyo1 Haystack: I forget real life too as @dagmar says
Noir Nagy: It depends what is happenning. SL is like a good book, if you read it you can get into it and lose your self, but it is easy to fall out of it.
Firery Broome: some of the best designers in SL are there
hobbs Constantine: I'm constantly letting my dogs in and out of the house, and realizing how cool it is to be in a place and at home
mgfreitas Barcelos: SL is very immersive
CathyWyo1 Haystack: that is the flow
Lolly Dovgal: I find that some activities in SL are very sentient, and I feel as I am doing, such as meditation.
CathyWyo1 Haystack: the immersion
Joy Rembrandt: anyone into experiential learning?
Olivia Hotshot: @Hobbs, me too!
Lolly Dovgal: Oh, yeah~
CathyWyo1 Haystack: just wrote a bit in my blog about it
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: perhaps b/c our avatars look more real-looking. It makes the experience seem real
Katie Fenstalker: I love that one friend calls SL "silly old SL" as if Winner the Pooh!
Katie Fenstalker: Winnie
Bathsheba Darkfold: you have to be careful though this can be overwhelming for some people at first -does anyone agree?
Olivia Hotshot: Then, how can we help students remain in touch with their real self and not lose it to an alt?
CathyWyo1 Haystack: yes
Noir Nagy: That i what we should strive to achieve. making the student forget there is an outside world.. make them think they really are in our class.
Olivia Hotshot: @Noir, excellent point!
Sheila Yoshikawa: "lose it to an alt"?
Praxislady Witt: Absolutely
Katie Fenstalker: I still go for doubleness -- I think that's the thing we can use critically too.
Olivia Hotshot: @Shelia - thinking back to the alt conversation we had here a few weeks ago.
Chimera Cosmos: I think it's important to be really comfortable in SL yourself before bringing anyone in - students or whoever
Bathsheba Darkfold: especially girls with some body issues or people with some physical disabilities or even people with some social phobias--SL moves fast
Sheila Yoshikawa: I would say it's the experience that is varied (or double) but I'm me
Zotarah Shepherd: I think one reason younger students resist SL for education is that they want to keep fun and school separate. Fun = immersion too. Do minimum of work to pass the class is harder to do when you are building and using critical thinking. Loosing yourself help the immersion process in the subject.
Chimera Cosmos: make friends, find a network, nice places to go
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: @Chimera...a semester at least for new educators....I made that mistake with my first class, too.
Noir Nagy: bathsheba, yes, that is one of our biggest problems. People get overwhelmed and give up before really learning how to be here in SL.
Katie Fenstalker: I did love more with more interest in my avatar I admit.
Sheila Yoshikawa: I mean the world may seem different in some ways but it's me experiencing it all
Katie Fenstalker: FUN YES!
Praxislady Witt: Educators cannot bring into SL what works in RL classrooms, it is like bringing in round (RL) activities and trying to put them in a square (SL) media???
Esme Qunhua: Katie?
Katie Fenstalker: yes?
Sheila Yoshikawa: @Zotarah I think that may be why some of my older students can cope better, in that they are more used to juggling different aspects of life?
Aphilo Aarde: Noir - that's also a definition of a 'flow' experience - an absorbed mind, which most people report as most enjoyable (see Czikszentmihalyi's "Flow: the Psychology of Optimal Experience" and here mediated by Second Life
Dusty Artaud: the more rl and sl overlap I experience the happier I am - I am Many-Me
Esme Qunhua: Katie you said - I did love more with more interest in my avatar I admit.?
Zotarah Shepherd: Yes
Praxislady Witt: Yes @Sheila
Esme Qunhua: haha@ Dusty
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: @Zo..too good a point to let slip. Again, demographers find that US Millennials are VERY suspicious of non-assessed "fun" in the classroom :(
CathyWyo1 Haystack: @dusty right!
Jarrad Voom: Yes Dusty exactly
Olivia Hotshot: @Dusty - many me - what a cool term!! =)
Katie Fenstalker: I meant I bonded with my avatar and that made it all more fun and deepers somehow.
Olivia Hotshot: We need t-shirts with that on it.
Katie Fenstalker: deeper
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: See Strauss and Howe's Millennials Rising and Twenge's Generation Me
Zotarah Shepherd: I also think the more you invest in making your avatar express who you are inside the more you become immerced
Esme Qunhua: thanks Katie
AgileBill Firehawk: yes, saw a talk at a RL convention 2 weeks ago - people usign Qwaq forums - Jaws dropped (they liked it) - looked serious. I prefer SL due to creativity and outside networking - maybe teams need both?
Olivia Hotshot: Do any of you think you're bonded with your avatar?
Esme Qunhua: But what of the people who don't experience the immersion that comes easier to others. How do we engage them
Olivia Hotshot: I certainly have.
Zotarah Shepherd: Yes exactly Katie re bonding.
Dagmar Kojishi: Sorry, folks, family emergency. I am looking forward to seeing this transcript.
Jarrad Voom: I have bonded with both of them
AgileBill Firehawk: yes! I wore my yellow hat at the RL convention - as a branding thing - got me an on camera interview /w the Agile Journal!
Dusty Artaud: Many-me has increasingly overlapping relationships - socially and professionally
Katie Fenstalker: Well what about peole who get sea sick in SL?
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: good luck Dagmar!
Praxislady Witt: @ Ignatius , believe peer pressure in the learning environment works regardless of generations
Zotarah Shepherd: I have a few alts and each one is an expression of a part of me.\
Katie Fenstalker: I hear that 1/3 of people have vertigo, is that true?
Noir Nagy: It is a good way to learn SL, you learn it and make yourself like you want to be. it creates a connection. makes it more real, like defining a character in a book.
CathyWyo1 Haystack: Sea sick
Dusty Artaud: @ Katie sea-sick?
Dusty Artaud: wow
Katie Fenstalker: yes, I know people who feel ill as they move the camera aroudn.
Teri Boxen: i heard of the vertigo
AgileBill Firehawk: I don't get Seasick in SL, but do in WOW
Olivia Hotshot: Vertigo from SL?
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: @Praxislady...true but we saw a BIG change at Richmond after 2000, in all the ways the writers describe. They are different as a generation from Gen X
Katie Fenstalker: esp. with lag.
mgfreitas Barcelos: Yes, I'm bonded with my avatar.
Olivia Hotshot: I get it on spinning things in SL a lot.
Chimera Cosmos: Bonded? My avatar seems like "Me" to me.
Olivia Hotshot waves to Pip in the stands.
CathyWyo1 Haystack: my avatar is me
Katie Fenstalker: my avatar is sort of me and sort of not. I love that .
Dusty Artaud envisions dramamine getting re-purposed for AL
Katie Fenstalker: I always wanted red hair.
Praxislady Witt: @ Ignatius, in virtual worlds or RL?
Esme Qunhua: My avatar and my person inform each other.
Firery Broome: I know 1 out of a few hundred that got sick here from movement
Olivia Hotshot: My avatar is my "best" physical me, but the best and worst of the intellectual me. *grins*
Dusty Artaud: like that Esme
Esme Qunhua: my person is becoming more like Esme and vice versa
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: I bond more with my ALT. I tend to channel the virtual hillbilly. Iggy is just me IRL with dreads and a funny hat
Noir Nagy: You can also let your students make the avatar what they want themselves to be. it gives them a sense of confidence in the world.
Firery Broome: I don't think it is that big of an issue
Joy Rembrandt: for me, it is almost a process of self-discovery
Chimera Cosmos: same people who get car sick?
Katie Fenstalker: someone told me 1/3 of people cannot do virtual worlds because of the inner ear issues? you ever heard that?
Bathsheba Darkfold: I think it is interesting that some people want their av to REALLY resemble their first world self but some let their imagination run a bit
CathyWyo1 Haystack: I have an alt who I think is amazing
Olivia Hotshot: OK< shall we shuffle on to another question?
Olivia Hotshot: How should students be assessed?
AgileBill Firehawk: (/me gets carsick, unless in the front seat - be careful if you're avi is sitting next to me) But I just can't play some games. thank goodness NeverWinter Nights is fine
Dusty Artaud: Cathy that's great - positive reinforcement from your alt
Olivia Hotshot: Wide open question here, folks. Take it where you wish.
Chimera Cosmos: Olivia--I don't think many agree on how students should be assessed in the outside world LOL
Chimera Cosmos: no different in here
Lolly Dovgal: ha, ha
Jarrad Voom: Yes indeed Cathy and Dusty
Olivia Hotshot smiles big at Chimera. Ohhh i love a great debate.
Angelia Halsey: I think they can be assessed the same as in RL
Praxislady Witt: I believe it is easier to assess student inworld
Katie Fenstalker: I'm still on the fence with "assessment" I confess (says hollowly).
Sheila Yoshikawa: as long as there is Constructive Alignment lol
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: an excellent Q..multimodal, multimedia work is tough to grade...they blog and do wiki pages about SL. I assess that by the standards of good prose, photography, and design. The subject is SL, the pedagogy is traditional for multimedia projects.
Joy Rembrandt: depends on the objective of the lessons, or the experience!
Sheila Yoshikawa: alignment teaching/learning/assessment that is
Katie Fenstalker: (I came from systems with no grades even....)
Bathsheba Darkfold: but so much of their success is predicated on mastery of the software
Esme Qunhua: My students produce and then defend.
Olivia Hotshot thinks @Katie is lucky.
ericcgcc Yootz: i'll be using chat transcripts to evaluate participation in group projects
Olivia Hotshot: @Esme, how does that work?
Bathsheba Darkfold: I took a documentary class once and had great ideas and scripts but difficulty with the editing equipment
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: @Bathsheba...we have a tech rich and affluent campus. Access is not a problem.
Katie Fenstalker: YES I think so too and I want my students to be lucky!
Birdie Newcomb: should students be assess on how well they learn SL, or on the lessons?
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: I'd do it differently at a different school
Aphilo Aarde: What web sites would avatars here suggest that get at some of the questions we're asking today?
Angelia Halsey: One way I plan to use SL is like a field trip--do things, experience things, change things, observe things then write or talk about it
Aphilo Aarde: Here's World University and School, a wiki like Wikipedia with MIT Open Course Ware - with good Second Life resources.
Aphilo Aarde: http://worlduniversity.wikia.com/wiki/Library_Resources#Second_Life_Teaching_and_Learning_Resources
Margaret Michalski: @ Iggy how would you do it differently?
Esme Qunhua: I have only had one student who I couldn't get a handle on how she was doing - based on her production. But then we talked on phone and I interviewed her. And it was clear.
Katie Fenstalker: I still like SL best as a place for learning about SL, media, virtual worlds, and play and learning.
Aphilo Aarde: And I'm curious what people here would add to it.
Aquiel Aero: Yes Angelia, that is how i use sl , for field trips
LoCE99Ch8 Morpork: www.intellagirl.com
Praxislady Witt: @Aphilo, TY *smiles*
Noir Nagy: Sl assessments are like open book tests, if the student can find the information, they have learned where to look and how to separate out the garbage. that can be as important as memorization.
Olivia Hotshot waves to Marc. Come join us!
CathyWyo1 Haystack: madddy schnoook has the sl guides
Aphilo Aarde: :)
Chimera Cosmos: Heard Scott, the World University guy, speak in RL at SLCC in SF - very enthusiastic guy
CathyWyo1 Haystack: amazing resources there
Sheila Yoshikawa: but a lot of the questions are just to with good pedagogy, can look at the regular lit and research ... @aphilo
CathyWyo1 Haystack: sorry I wanted to show you sl guides
Olivia Hotshot: If anyone has some good pedagogy or andagogy resources, feel free to post them.
CathyWyo1 Haystack: I will pick it up in a minute
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: @Margaret, I'd do less. I would have them work more IN class on wikis, blogs, and such, where they have access. I can count on them at Richmond having a GREAT computer in their dorms and high speed 24/7
Dusty Artaud: recommend Dusan Writer for his excellent reflections on av identity http://dusanwriter.com/
Aphilo Aarde: Yes, please, where would you suggest posting them, Olivia?
Olivia Hotshot seconds @Dusty on that recommendation
Praxislady Witt: Is SL more pedagogy or andragogy?
Katie Fenstalker: third @ Dusty.
Noir Nagy: face it, we cannot see what else is on their computer. we do not know if they are getting answers from friends or from wiki or websites, so we have to do the horrible trust thing.
CathyWyo1 Haystack: andragogy
Katie Fenstalker: the good trust thing!
Olivia Hotshot: Right here in the chat Aphilo - Iggy will post the URLs and SLurls at the start of the transcript.
Angelia Halsey: I want to challenge beliefs and help them discover; I would assess and encourage critical thinking
Chimera Cosmos: who is speaking?
Olivia Hotshot: Hello Cyber?
Dusty Artaud: RezEd has wonderful educational discussions as well - and sub-groups for diff educational groups
Olivia Hotshot: Cyber, you have an open mic.
Aphilo Aarde: Here are the Second Life related URLs I have posted at World Univ & Sch's wiki
Olivia Hotshot grinning.
CathyWyo1 Haystack: let her talk
CathyWyo1 Haystack: funny
Katie Fenstalker: lol
Katie Fenstalker: it's kind of fun.
CathyWyo1 Haystack: they don't really write or text chat
CathyWyo1 Haystack: hmmm
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Here's my assessment link from the current class: http://iggyssyllabus.pbworks.com/Grading-Multimedia-Projects
Olivia Hotshot: Cyber - you have an open mic. We can hear your conversation.
Aphilo Aarde: but first there a lot of great educational software/ freeware here at World Univ - http://worlduniversity.wikia.com/wiki/Educational_Software
Olivia Hotshot: Perhaps time for a new questions.
Olivia Hotshot: How do we envision the future of virtual world education?
Zotarah Shepherd: Pervasive
Margaret Michalski: @ Iggy, Thanks
Olivia Hotshot: So what is the big picture in our future folks?
CathyWyo1 Haystack: why is everyone dinging me ?
Aphilo Aarde: Thanks, Iggy
Olivia Hotshot: picture too
CathyWyo1 Haystack: haha
Aphilo Aarde: ISTE Eduverse Talks http://www.iste-eduverse.org/
LoCE99Ch8 Morpork: As an avalanche? :-)
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: My stock quotation "simulations of what cannot be done easily or at all IRL for a class"
Aphilo Aarde: Learning in Second Life http://twitter.com/learninginworld
CathyWyo1 Haystack: yes it's ANNOYING
AgileBill Firehawk: yes Zotarah - pervasive - initially driven by cost, then discovered to be better (properly done in 3d, not 2.5)
Aphilo Aarde: SalamanderWiki - Second Life Resources http://www.eduisland.net/salamanderwiki/index.php?title=Main_Page
Katie Fenstalker: that's the big question. Experimentation? transdisciplinary work? transnational collaborations?
Esme Qunhua: hehe
Aphilo Aarde: Second Life Education Programs' manager, Claudia Linden of Linden Lab http://twitter.com/claudialinden
Aphilo Aarde: Second Life Education Roundtable https://blogs.secondlife.com/community/learninginworld
Aphilo Aarde: Second Life Educational Events' Calendar, Where You Can Teach, Too http://secondlife.com/events
CathyWyo1 Haystack: yes we can hear you
Noir Nagy: Yes, Claudia is very helpful to education.
Olivia Hotshot: ouch
Chimera Cosmos: sheesh!
CathyWyo1 Haystack: yes
Esme Qunhua: YES
Katie Fenstalker: We hear you Cyber!
Olivia Hotshot: yes, we can hear you
Jarrad Voom: yes
Aphilo Aarde: Second Life Educators' Email List https://lists.secondlife.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/educators
Ignatius Onomatopoeia ducks so as not to ding CathyWyo1
Olivia Hotshot: Please turn off your mic.
CathyWyo1 Haystack: haha
CathyWyo1 Haystack: laughs
Aquiel Aero: best thing to do is just mute here
Aphilo Aarde: Second Life Tours http://secondlife.iste.wikispaces.net/sltours - This is Esme's site, I think
Olivia Hotshot: Thank you Cyber.
Chimera Cosmos: I tried to tell them to go to private voice
Aphilo Aarde: Sim Teach http://simteach.com/sled/db/
CathyWyo1 Haystack: ahh a little comic relief
Chimera Cosmos: not sure she understood
Olivia Hotshot: OK, so back to the question at hand: How do we envision the future of virtual world education.?
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: I turn off my sound at these unless we use voice
Aphilo Aarde: All of the above links are posted, again, here - http://worlduniversity.wikia.com/wiki/Library_Resources#Second_Life_Teaching_and_Learning_Resources
LoCE99Ch8 Morpork: Wow, Aphilo, this is a great bunch of resources!
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: I imagine a future with both SL and university-hosted Open Sim worlds
Chimera Cosmos: that's Scott McLeod
Katie Fenstalker: again: transdisciplinary, transnational collaborations.
Aphilo Aarde: which is also this: http://worlduniversity.wikia.com/wiki/Library_Resources
Chimera Cosmos: he wants everyone to contribute to it
CathyWyo1 Haystack: (wonders if anyone here is from maryland I will be going there the end of this month)
AgileBill Firehawk: I forsee schools specializing a bit - how many universities need to teach the same thing if I can take it all online?
Esme Qunhua: Chimera Scott and Aphil are same person.
Katie Fenstalker: I love the kinds of professional folks you find in SL.
Noir Nagy: This format is amazing for education to those who can not go to a RL location, whether for health or distance reasons. It is hope for many remote areas.
Katie Fenstalker: I am in Maryland.
CathyWyo1 Haystack: wonderful
Aphilo Aarde: Yes, it's a wiki (editable web pages) - so group knowledge production rocks when we contribute
CathyWyo1 Haystack: (thinking about an sl meet up in Maryland)
Chimera Cosmos: heh--so much chat going by I'm missing things
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: and avatars that can TP between them, with inventory. Some Open Sims will be all about education, like Heritage Key King Tut: http://heritage-key.com/virtual-experience
Olivia Hotshot: Does anyone envision virtualworld teaching to be vastly different from what we know of it today?
Aphilo Aarde: Add your name to World University and School's Google Group: http://groups.google.com/group/World-University-and-School
Chimera Cosmos: not to mention hearing voices in myhead! hehehe
CathyWyo1 Haystack: yes Olivia I do
Katie Fenstalker: Cathy my email address is in my profile.
Aphilo Aarde: And join the open 'World University and School' Facebook Group: http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=48753608141
Olivia Hotshot: How so Cathy?
CathyWyo1 Haystack: more learner centered
Marc Rexen: You mean a teacher interacting with a student Olivia...no...at least I hope not.
CathyWyo1 Haystack: more self-directed with the teacher supporting student
Esme Qunhua: I think the internet will become increasingly a world with a map that you can move your avatar about
CathyWyo1 Haystack: more studnet to student connection and learning
Chimera Cosmos: ah..I get it...Aphilo/Scott is here - doh!
Ignatius Onomatopoeia sends Chimera to AJ's Freud Bot for analysis
CathyWyo1 Haystack: from each other
Marc Rexen: SL almost forces one out of the impersonal CMS model and into a 1 on 1.
Olivia Hotshot: Marc - i am open to hearing all thoughts on this. I want to learn.
Chimera Cosmos: hahaha
Aphilo Aarde: What links might we add here?
CathyWyo1 Haystack: student creating instead of having things created for them
AgileBill Firehawk: re CathyWyo - nods - more student to student
CathyWyo1 Haystack: more resources in world
CathyWyo1 Haystack: for learning
Noir Nagy: It has to be different, we can not use the old paradigm with such new resources.
CathyWyo1 Haystack: rather then moving between the web and virtual worlds
CathyWyo1 Haystack: virtual
Chimera Cosmos: yes Cathy--that's the problem with large databases
Olivia Hotshot: Does anyone believe people will TP between worlds? Worlds created for specific purposes?
Chimera Cosmos: useful, but not THE answer
Aphilo Aarde: Does anyone know who runs Salamander Wiki with all the great Second Life learning sites?
Marc Rexen: The 400 hour per hour of content courses (military, specialized) are nice, but learning also has aspects of 1 on 1 and SL is good for that.
CathyWyo1 Haystack: not so worried about moving between worlds
Aphilo Aarde: It hasn't been updated for awhile, and even though it's a wiki, I couldn't edit it.
CathyWyo1 Haystack: frankly I think we are sitting in the internet of the future
CathyWyo1 Haystack: it may not be sl
AgileBill Firehawk: do we need a transition - some new folks may be comfortable w/ chairs and slides - when they are ready I can unleash the holodeck on them - or is delay an anti-pattern?
CathyWyo1 Haystack: but it will be 3d
Esme Qunhua: Aphilo I will talk to you privately about salamander
Angelia Halsey: @cathy...Facebook in 3d
Chimera Cosmos: me tooo Cathy! totally!
Aphilo Aarde: Thanks :)
CathyWyo1 Haystack: yes
Katie Fenstalker: I am excited to think about SL as the beginning of something on the horizon.
Dusty Artaud: if you want to see what the kids are writing about SL learning try Global Kid's website http://holymeatballs.org/second_life/
CathyWyo1 Haystack: more credibility of informal learning opportunities
Esme Qunhua: I worry about private worlds. because the rich content is missing.
CathyWyo1 Haystack: we see here
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Some sort of 3d metaverse. SL has problems for educators, though LL has gone a long way toward changing the image of the culture in-world (I duck again)
CathyWyo1 Haystack: through NMC, ICE Rockcliffe
Olivia Hotshot is amazed at the amount of collaboration on resources tofay!
Aphilo Aarde: Great, @Dusty
CathyWyo1 Haystack: and how we give those learning opportunities credibility or verifiy them
Katie Fenstalker: @Esme what about open access issues then?
Olivia Hotshot: ok, a second to last question for the group - and a serious one:
Esme Qunhua: What do you mean Katie?
Olivia Hotshot: How do we prevent replicating poor practices in this "new" medium?
Marc Rexen: I worry less about private worlds, mostly, because I see the kids jumping between them, almost like getting on different web sites...they'll touch several in an evening.
Noir Nagy: Sl does give the student more ways to creatively show their learning than RL.
Aphilo Aarde: A large user base is so important, and an open space, like SL is also key ...
CathyWyo1 Haystack: ahh
CathyWyo1 Haystack: how do I take what I learn and apply i t
Katie Fenstalker: I know people who wont' use SL because it is a commercial platform.
CathyWyo1 Haystack: you know what I think students will vote with their feet
Marc Rexen: That is the key, standardization, and I don't think we're there yet.
CathyWyo1 Haystack: because there are very visible competitors
CathyWyo1 Haystack: who will give me the learning that I want
Esme Qunhua: But they will use Blackboard which is also a commercial product.
CathyWyo1 Haystack: and I can see that
Angelia Halsey: I envision new students being so comfortable with virtual worlds we can spend more time on learning subject matter and less on orientation
Katie Fenstalker: @Esme good point.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: I would wager that Bb will vanish
CathyWyo1 Haystack: yes angelia
Noir Nagy: there i only 1 that even comes close as an educational platform. but that may change in the future.
Chimera Cosmos: I'm starting to think that having your own private sim could be a training ground, but only to prepare folks for the wider world of SL
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: you can do it *all* with freeware now
Marc Rexen: Graphics on some of the up and comings are better than SL, content creation, much less...the question will become what is the right balance.
CathyWyo1 Haystack: yes @iggy
Fred Brecher: Cyber sends her regards and apologies for the open mic.
CathyWyo1 Haystack: LMS are a thing of the past
CathyWyo1 Haystack: they are no flexible r agile
Olivia Hotshot: OK, folks back to the question of How do we prevent replicating poor practices in this "new" medium? How do we keep this from becoming another Bb LMS?
CathyWyo1 Haystack: all we need is something to manage grades and assessment
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: one issue for SL and worlds like it...they don't play well on hand-helds
CathyWyo1 Haystack: to authenticate student learning
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: and my students are all about those
Esme Qunhua: did you all hear that in England today they announced that VLEs (LMS) are dead ha ha ha
Marc Rexen: Only when SL can do what they do now...LMS's are how grades are input, sylabbi sent out, assignments redacted, closed and open communication occurs.
Katie Fenstalker: (getting folks at school to know bb is a poor practice?)
CathyWyo1 Haystack: semantic web will change so much
mgfreitas Barcelos: Cathy: Why LMS are a thing of the past?
Sheila Yoshikawa: @Chimera, yes I think a combination of closed and open worlds, doesn't have to be "one" solution
CathyWyo1 Haystack: @esme yaya
CathyWyo1 Haystack: must see that
Fred Brecher: OTOH, Blackboard is pretty bad on a handheld as well.
CathyWyo1 Haystack: @mgreitas cost is one factor
Olivia Hotshot agrees with @Fred.
CathyWyo1 Haystack: yes they are clunky
CathyWyo1 Haystack: content is readily available on the web
Katie Fenstalker: where esme?
Sheila Yoshikawa: @Esme argh wouldn't be a good time of year for our VLE to die ;-)
CathyWyo1 Haystack: tools such as twine.com can manage the web
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: But @Fred, you can run 2D Web on a hand-held. Forget running a virtual world
CathyWyo1 Haystack: and check out folksemantic.org
CathyWyo1 Haystack: I think it is
Katie Fenstalker: (I loathe bb.)
Olivia Hotshot: And finally - as she says above the hum-
CathyWyo1 Haystack: a web3.0 tool for pushing what you want to learn to you
Olivia Hotshot: How can we rethink teaching approaches for virtual worlds?
Esme Qunhua: ALT-C conference in Manchester UK search google for VLEs dead
Aphilo Aarde: I think students will learn (and teach) in Second Life, if that's where their classes are held, like with Blackboard.
Katie Fenstalker: thx.
Marc Rexen: LMS are supposed to be our savior for H1N1 (coughs, clears throat, and smiles).
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: every student who comes in my office for orientation to SL has a laptop...that is an issue b/c of SL graphics reqs
Olivia Hotshot: @Aphilo - good point.
Morgen String: @Cathy but some LMS like Moodle are free
AgileBill Firehawk: think in 4d. not 3d
mgfreitas Barcelos: thanks, cathy :-)
CathyWyo1 Haystack: and yes there are more and more all the time
Olivia Hotshot: @Morgen - the shell is free - the development is far from it.
Marc Rexen: Not free Morgen, cost of open and closed source is about the same.
CathyWyo1 Haystack: honeybeee.com and studywhiz.com
CathyWyo1 Haystack: much cheaper and just as robust
CathyWyo1 Haystack: honeybee.com
Dusty Artaud: Bill what is 4d - AR?
AgileBill Firehawk: it needs to move
Aphilo Aarde: Olivia, I think text chat allows for new kinds of focusing of students' attention - it's slower, students can potentially engage when they want - in a conversation-model of learning - and possibly anonymously, rewriting the social psychology of the teacher as authority.
Marc Rexen: Machines and software are almost always cheaper than the people needed to run them.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Teaching approaches? In writing, even more one-on-one. It's been our pedagogy for a long time. Only the subjects change.
AgileBill Firehawk: 4d -in time x, y, z, time
Jarrad Voom: There is a mashup of bb and SL
Aphilo Aarde: SL makes it possible for students to share their knowledge in ways they might not in a RL class.
Olivia Hotshot: For anyone who wants it: http://coe.sdsu.edu/eet/Articles/andragogy/index.htm
AgileBill Firehawk: thanks for the links!
Olivia Hotshot: and: http://www.slideshare.net/stevenw/virtuals-worlds-and-radical-pedagogy by Steven Harbuton.
CathyWyo1 Haystack: and develop new ways of Knowing through interacting with eachother
Marc Rexen: SL just does things the others can't...can't have a French dinner, with appropriate music, in a villa, speaking French, every week at most Colleges.
CathyWyo1 Haystack: yes!
Angelia Halsey: @marc ...agree
Olivia Hotshot: unless in France, marc.
Esme Qunhua: I don't think we can stop bad practice, but we can model good creative uses of sl
Olivia Hotshot chortles
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: @Marc...that simulation thing changes all the rules.
CathyWyo1 Haystack: with people from France!
Marc Rexen: Send me a ticket...:)
Katie Fenstalker: I'm still getting you are a vampire wanting to bleed away my time and spirit by talking about SL>>>>>>
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: @Katie...I own a SL vampire-slayer kit :)
Katie Fenstalker accepted your inventory offer.
Marc Rexen: It really does Iggy, only worry I have is the older generation, meaning us, is fascinated with the technology, often seeing it as revolutionary, so we invest tons of time and effort into it.
Katie Fenstalker: yes. vampires are good but tell that to these folks.
Katie Fenstalker: thx Iggy!
Aphilo Aarde: Thanks Olivia for these links, too! I'll add some of them to World Univ & Sch which has a lot of other resources. both Library Resources, and much else!
Olivia Hotshot: Well, folks, we are out of time. I would like to thank each of you for putting up with my moderating style today. It was great to hear all of your opinions and collaborate today. Look for Iggy's transcript with all the goodies sometime soon.
Marc Rexen: But, will the generation growing up with it find it equally as awesomelly engaging?
Esme Qunhua: Great conversation everyone.
Esme Qunhua: good point marc
AgileBill Firehawk: fantastic!! Thank you! - good to see you all
Olivia Hotshot: Thanks for coming, feel free to stay and continue.
Noir Nagy: Thank you Olivia.
Aquiel Aero: thanks all!
CathyWyo1 Haystack: it will be a part of their real life
AgileBill Firehawk: (I want metrics for case studies, btw - will do some homework)
Olivia Hotshot: And take a copy of the notecard if you have not already.
Lolly Dovgal: Olivia, nice job of moderating this group!
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: WOW...what a transcript this will make. I won't even TRY to put the links at the top. Just comb through for live links.
Esme Qunhua: how else can you have a conversation with 40 people and all participate???
Olivia Hotshot: Thank you Lolly. =D
CathyWyo1 Haystack: they may not be as intrigued with defining it as we are
Sheila Yoshikawa: thanks Olivia
Katie Fenstalker: nice format Olivia. I like all these ways of talking!
Ignatius Onomatopoeia gives Olivia a big round of applause!
AgileBill Firehawk: .-'`'-. APPLAUSE APPLAUSE .-'`'-.
Olivia Hotshot grins.
Katie Fenstalker: good job!
CathyWyo1 Haystack: always a great discussion!
Aphilo Aarde: thanks!
Esme Qunhua: Thanks Iggy for keeping the archives up to date.
Bathsheba Darkfold: thank you
CathyWyo1 Haystack: thanks all
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: now off to fix dinner. And thank you Esme--I enjoy it!
Olivia Hotshot: Thanks for riding shot gun, Iggy.
Margaret Michalski: Thanks you Iggy
mgfreitas Barcelos: thank you Olivia
Katie Fenstalker: yes. food!
CathyWyo1 Haystack: we should throw some lindens in the pot someday for AJ and crew here at montclair
Margaret Michalski: @ Iggy Same here
Angelia Halsey: Can't wait to read the transcript and check out the links
Angelia Halsey: thank you
CathyWyo1 Haystack: and get them some kind of SL oasis
Olivia Hotshot: Marc, are we going to Paris for diner now?
CathyWyo1 Haystack: or something
Ignatius Onomatopoeia bows low--glad to help. Nite all!
Jarrad Voom: Thanks Iggy, thanks Maragert
CathyWyo1 Haystack: for all they do