Transcript of July 14, 2009 Second Life Roundtable Discussion
Topic: Non-Virtual-World Issues
Photos by Olivia Hotshot and me (visit Olivia's blog and Flickr photostream). See Olivia's Flickr group for the SLER to add your own photos.
Links Mentioned:
AJ Brooks: Hi everyone, and welcome to this weeks SL Education Roundtable.
AJ Brooks: These meetings are made possible by the Office of Information Technology at Montclair State University.
AJ Brooks: We meet here each week at 2:30pm SLT for an hour. Our topic today is Dealing with Non-Virtual World Issues.
Ahlan Oh: are we waiting to be announced? :-)
AJ Brooks: Our meetings are roundtable style, so those in the theater seats please come down and join us at the table.
AJ Brooks: Our magic expanding table will always have an empty seat, located closest to the ramp.
AJ Brooks: This is a public meeting, so we do keep a transcript of what is said in local chat.
AJ Brooks: For a copy of older transcripts, please visit http://sler-transcripts.wikispaces.com and for more recent transcripts, please visit http://www.virtualwroldsedu.info/slroundtable
AJ Brooks: Special thanks to our resident scribe, Iggy Onomatopoeia, for taking care of this. If you've not seen the transcripts, you should check them out - they are a great information asset.
AJ Brooks: Normally we have information on FUTURE MEETINGS, there is a notecard giver on the West wall of the Amphitheater.
Zotarah Shepherd: Yay Iggy!
AJ Brooks: However, our Program Committee is hard at work to bring you the late Summer/Fall scehdule.
AJ Brooks: Special thanks to Iggy, Margaret, Olivia, and Kali for their work on that.
Pipsqueak Fiddlesticks: up here, Marla
Ignatius Onomatopoeia tips the tartan at Zo...my pleasure
AJ Brooks: The SL Education Roundtable meeting happens each week and we are looking to develop a community of educators from around the world with a variety of thoughts, needs, and ideas.
AJ Brooks: Please join the SL EDUCATION ROUNDTABLE group. If you have problems finding it in search, just outside this amphitheater you will see several displays. By clicking the appropriate one you can join the group.
AJ Brooks: As the group grows, there will be announcements, surveys, and decisions made that will be exclusive to the group.
AJ Brooks: Aside from the island we are currently on, Monclair State University also has two other educational islands adjoining to the north.
AJ Brooks: There are also numerous learning areas on these adjoining islands, Montclair State CHSS and Montclair State CEHSADP, which is home to The Theorist Project and Wilber Middle School Library. Wander around and enjoy.
AJ Brooks: If you are on Facebook, please join our group there - http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=44078263753&ref=share
AJ Brooks: Thanks to Olivia Hotshot for putting together a Flickr group for the SLER. I encourage everyone to join the group and to take pictures from our meeting and add them to the group. Its a great way to show, and grow, our community.
AJ Brooks: Finally, if you have Mystitool on, or other similiar tool, please put it to sleep or detach it for now. :-) It tends to lag things.
AJ Brooks: As a hint, it is better to have "local chat" open for these meetings, it will help you follow the conversation better.
AJ Brooks: You can find local chat by clicking COMMUNICATE in the bottom navigation bar and you'll find LOCAL CHAT as one of the tabs at the bottom of the Communicate window.
AJ Brooks: Why don't we get started they way we usually do, by introducing ourselves. No need to wait, go ahead and type who you are, where you are, and your ties to education into local chat.
AJ Brooks: I am AJ Kelton, Director of Emerging Instructional Technology for the College of Humanities and Social Sciences at Montclair State University
AJ Brooks: and the Coordinator of the Second Life Project for the College of Education and Human Services, also at MSU. We're located in northern New Jersey, just fourteen miles from midtown Manhattan.
Alan Sandalwood: Alan Haywood. Education and Technology. EFL
Ignatius Onomatopoeia is Joe Essid, Dept. of Rhetoric and Communication Studies. I'm the University of Richmond's Writing Center and Writing Across the Curriculum Director. I've taught 3 classes in writing or lit with SL.
Pipsqueak Fiddlesticks: Denise Cote, Librarian, College of DuPage
Geoff Lumley is Geoff Barker-Read from the University of Leeds, UK
Zotarah Shepherd: I am a MA in Education (technology and psychology) student at Sonoma State University in northern California working an a curriculum project: Teaching and Learning Life-Skills in Second Life. I am working on an Immersive Interactive Educational build about Life-skills.
Dusty Artaud: Randi Kopp, Marketing Consultant for Kidsbridge Tolerance Museum on The College of New Jersey http://www.kidsbridgemuseum.org
CathyWyo1 Haystack: Cathy Anderson Acadecmid Coordinator for online SD board of regents
Margaret Michalski: Margaret, Univ of IL at Chicago, Reserch Information Specialist. My interets are Public Health, E-learning, Distant Edu and Blended Learning.
DanielG Tigerfish: Daniel G. McNulty; NE Site Coordinator for the PATINS Project
Eliasdehart Sixpence: Casey Ashe, LRC Supervisor, Tulsa Community College
MarlaSinger Andel: Elizabeth Anderson, English instructor, College of DuPage
Kali Pizzaro: Registered Nurse and Nurse Lecturer Glasgow Caledonian University
Katie Fenstalker: is Katie King, women's studies and new media, univeristy of Maryland at College Park.
Anetha Gyranaut: I am Anthea Fraser Gupta, sociolinguist in School of English, University of Leeds
Ahlan Oh: Alan Epstein, in Watertown Public Schools, MA, USA. Robotics, STEM, SL
Olivia Hotshot: Ann Steckel CSU Chico, techie & educator
Profdan Netizen: Dan Holt, Lansing Community College, Lansing, MI, teach fy composition and creative writing.
Spiral Theas: is Robin Heyden, science writer/educator from Boston, MA.
Rachelle Munro: Rochell McWhorter, Texas A&M University, Graduate student working on virtual campus
Kimbeau Surveryor: Kim Spence-Jones. Tech Director of OpenHub, a company involved in smart residential technology and services.
Fred Brecher: is Fred Hagemeister, Coordinator of Academic Technology Services, University of Richmond
Ignatius Onomatopoeia waves at Fred (my hero of the week)
Mimi Muircastle: Mimi Muircastle - retired educator interested in SL education
AJ Brooks: wow - great to see some old-timers here, and some new folks who have retuned
AJ Brooks: and some new faces
AJ Brooks: this is awesome
Fred Brecher: Not me! I'm the scared guy in back.
AJ Brooks: anyone else not get a change to introduce themself?
Ahlan Oh: (might need a few more chairs...)
Olivia Hotshot: always more chairs
AJ Brooks: just clikc and sit - and empty chair will appear
AJ Brooks: the empty chair is by the ramp
Ahlan Oh: excellent!
zamfir Paule: Spencer Lee (Zamfir Paule) - Ph.D. Student at Virginia Tech, I'm involved in a joint project with UNC-CH which is about education and teahcing on the topic of digital preservation..
AJ Brooks: its a great tool
Profdan Netizen: Empty chair next to me.
Anetha Gyranaut: i got a table like this for my campus!
zamfir Paule: so many people.. ^^
AJ Brooks: 30
AJ Brooks: :-)
Spiral Theas: wonderful!
AJ Brooks: and the table holds at least 40
Kali Pizzaro: Hi spiral
AJ Brooks: anyoe else not get a chance to introduce themself?
Spiral Theas: Hi Kali!
AJ Brooks: going once
Alondra Luna: Alondra Luna, 5/6 Spanish/English Teacher, Alaska
AJ Brooks: ah - ok
AJ Brooks: welcome - anyone else?
AJ Brooks: I see some typing hands
RobertK Scorpio: Hello, I am from Dallas.
Xann Kanto: I'm an adjunct at Boise State and coordinate online teacher and class development
RobertK Scorpio: I am a specialist in technology,, I train teachers.
AJ Brooks: excellent - welcome
AJ Brooks: anyone else
Spiral Theas: Xann, do you work with Mali Young?
AJ Brooks: going once
AJ Brooks: going twice
Xann Kanto: yes, Spiral
Dusty Artaud: there's George
Josain Zsun: I'm a middle school science & technology facilitator.
AJ Brooks: sold - to all the clouds around the table
AJ Brooks: :-)
Rachelle Munro: :)
AJ Brooks: ok - hi everyone - and welcome, thanks for coming
AJ Brooks: our topic this week
AJ Brooks: is Dealing with Non-Virtual World Issues
Olivia Hotshot: hey George =)
AJ Brooks: but before we get started
George Linden: ㋡
AJ Brooks: I just want to say a few things about the Program Committee
AJ Brooks: All of the members are here - and regulars
AJ Brooks: Iggy, Olivia, Margaret, and Kali (and me)
AJ Brooks: we took the notes from our meeting on this topic
AJ Brooks: and are hard at work to put together a survey
AJ Brooks: which should be out VERY soon
AJ Brooks: teh survey will go out to the SLER group and
AJ Brooks: and several other groups
AJ Brooks: and several listserves
AJ Brooks: teh thought on that is
AJ Brooks: we want to get the opinions of people who attends, and those who do not also
AJ Brooks: HOWEVER
AJ Brooks: those in the SLER group
AJ Brooks: and those who belong to the SLER Facebook group
AJ Brooks: will get a special survey
AJ Brooks: so we know how they vote
AJ Brooks: and their votes will count more
AJ Brooks: there IS privlidge to membership
AJ Brooks: :-)
AJ Brooks: SO
AJ Brooks: if you are not currently a member of the SLER in world group
AJ Brooks: or Facebook group
AJ Brooks: now is the time to join
AJ Brooks: the upcoming schedule is going to be AWESOME
AJ Brooks: just incredible
AJ Brooks: I'm looking forward to putting out the survey
AJ Brooks: and then publishing the schedule
AJ Brooks: there are, after all, your meetings
AJ Brooks: speaking of which, I've blathers on long enough
AJ Brooks: lets address the issue at hand
AJ Brooks: what do some of you think are non-virtual worlds issues?
Ahlan Oh: (this is a very "ruly" crowd)
AJ Brooks: [crickets]
AJ Brooks: [crickets]
Spiral Theas: can you give us some examples of what you mean?
Anetha Gyranaut as usual doesn't understand the question
AJ Brooks: yes
Olivia Hotshot: Funding?
AJ Brooks: YES
AJ Brooks: funding is a great issue
Olivia Hotshot pats self on head
AJ Brooks: here, let me do this
AJ Brooks: one moment
CathyWyo1 Haystack: how to find grants
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Managing student workers on projects--nods to Fred
AJ Brooks: he theme of this meeting is Dealing with Non-Virtual World Issues. We spend a lot of time talking about issues that come up while the computer is on and the virtual world is up and running, but what about issues that revolve around virtual worlds, but don't deal directly with being in-world. Today we will talk about some of those issues and, hopefully, get some answers from those who have experience dealing with them.
Spiral Theas: Ahhhh.....
Spiral Theas: Then, funding.
Olivia Hotshot: Hardware purchases & requirements
Spiral Theas: Big one.
CathyWyo1 Haystack: pedagogy
Zotarah Shepherd: Getting approval from Lindens for an educational sim, which can take a long time.
AJ Brooks: so - funding is important, to those who have land or membership
AJ Brooks: hardware - yes
Kali Pizzaro: Ownership of projects
DanielG Tigerfish: our biggest issue tends to be folks resistant to the whole idea. Especially in the K-12 realm, we get a lot of, "no way am I learning to be a part of that cartoon world."
Ahlan Oh: well..... talking to skeptics about the power of VW's
Pipsqueak Fiddlesticks: Technology infrastructure on campus
Spiral Theas: Designing meaningful educational activities.
AJ Brooks: pedagogy - big topic there, and also more about in-world stuff
Anetha Gyranaut: access by students
Birdie Newcomb: recruiting
Spiral Theas: Yes, talking with skeptics.
AJ Brooks: convincing admins to let a project move forward
Katie Fenstalker: attracting students and teachers.
Margaret Michalski: IT skills and student management on projects.
Spiral Theas: The whole kid grid vs. this grid thing.
AJ Brooks: yes - skeptical colleagues
Ahlan Oh: You said it well, Spiral
Kimbeau Surveyor: Getting virtual worlds to be taken seriously by those not versed in the art.
Birdie Newcomb: Teen Grid vs. Main Grid
AJ Brooks: wonderful
AJ Brooks: what else
Elias Sixpence: getting the right people with the right skills involved (cross-departmental team)
Anetha Gyranaut: assumption that sl=sex
CathyWyo1 Haystack: research/assessment
Kali Pizzaro: yep Anetha
AJ Brooks: prejudices
Spiral Theas: Finding good programming help when you need it (not too expensive)
Kimbeau Surveryor: You mean it isn't, Anetha? hehe
Zotarah Shepherd: I will be teaching a class in SL for teachers at SSU Extended Ed this November. They don't think I will get many students and I am not sure how to promote it in schools.
AJ Brooks: well - programming - that more in-world
Profdan Netizen: myths/false assumptions about SL
Olivia Hotshot: Assessment of student work done inworld
Anetha Gyranaut prefers surfing
AJ Brooks: promoting
AJ Brooks: assessment
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Dan sums up the issue nicely
Birdie Newcomb: LSL, actually part of SL but still obscure to some of us
Spiral Theas: Ah, right. Sorry. I meant the search for those people and then managing them once you find them.
Katie Fenstalker: assumption that sl is only for distance education, without knocking distance education.
AJ Brooks: good
CathyWyo1 Haystack: collaborations between corporations and universities
Rachelle Munro: engaging younger students who don't want to spend the time to overcome learning curve
AJ Brooks: what else
Margaret Michalski: finding people to work on projects outside the typical 9-5
Kali Pizzaro: yes Katie it can be blended with other media and Face to face
AJ Brooks: ok - anything else?
Spiral Theas: Managing costs - making sure your plans don't get out of proportion to the funding you have.
Ahlan Oh: Isn't that enough???
AJ Brooks: well - looking at this wonderful list
Raloc Dorado: all those things that catch you out with SL, how much bandwidth, what video cards, how to create multiple accounts through your site proxy server
Birdie Newcomb: blended situations -- half and half
AJ Brooks: lol - yes, Ahlan - that is more than enough, no?
AJ Brooks: lol
Kimbeau Surveryor: And assumption that sl is "play" to be added on as a "reward"...
Margaret Michalski: project planning
Xann Kanto: graduate level approvals for studies in VWs
AJ Brooks: so - of all the things mentioned, what is the #1 issue - do you think?
CathyWyo1 Haystack: heard a presentation today on how to set up your island without expensive builds
Kali Pizzaro: good point Xann
CathyWyo1 Haystack: kind of in world
Birdie Newcomb: "selling" SL
Kimbeau Surveryor: I think all the above boil down to one word : Misconceptions
zamfir Paule: what kind of approvals, Xann?
Spiral Theas: And IRBs when using human subjects.
AJ Brooks: Cathy, as an aside, I need you to invite me to the group again - will explain later
Xann Kanto: say for a dissertation
Profdan Netizen: Agreed, Kimbeau.
AJ Brooks: so - folks - what is the NUMBER ONE issue, out of all the ones just mentioned
Spiral Theas: IRB approval when doing research.
Anetha Gyranaut: no1 is lack of access on campus
Anetha Gyranaut: for me
AJ Brooks: access - misconceptions - IRB
AJ Brooks: what else
Spiral Theas: For me, it's over-coming skepticism.
Ahlan Oh: (IRB = ??)
Rachelle Munro: getting everyone in RL to buy in to what we already have
AJ Brooks: can skeptics be lumped in with misconceptions?
Spiral Theas: Getting people past the "it's just a game" kind of thinking.
Olivia Hotshot: Funding for projects outside of the main stream text book, chalkboard, face-to-face methods
Mimi Muircastle: My understanding is acceptance and misperceptions
Dusty Artaud: promoting to and communicating with key stakeholders (in our case donors and grantors
)
Geoff Lumley: Agreed Spiral. Establishing credibility
Spiral Theas: Oooh, yes, Mimi, misperceptions are a real issue.
Mimi Muircastle: yes, promotion to key stakeholders
DanielG Tigerfish: credibility is huge
CathyWyo1 Haystack: I have one that could be a what if
Profdan Netizen: mixed classes--college courses with both under and over 18 year old students.
AJ Brooks: ok - why don't we call that big category - PERCEPTIONS
Xann Kanto: IRB=institutional review board
Ahlan Oh: (thx)
AJ Brooks: Access - Perceptions - IRB
Kimbeau Surveryor Likes Geoff's "Establishing credibility"
Spiral Theas: Thanks, Xann. Should have spelled that out.
Mimi Muircastle: I like perceptions + access
CathyWyo1 Haystack: what if in say 5 years so many students coming out of high schools have been in virtual worlds and we are scrambling to accommodate them in colleges and universities
Anetha Gyranaut: yes mimi
Margaret Michalski: for me it is finding people to work outside the 9-5. I am already working 5am till midnight.
Spiral Theas: that's good.
Mimi Muircastle: Credibility is also good
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Q for the group: what other new technologies that are now accepted faced the same credibility gap? How did they get accepted?
AJ Brooks: ok - so lets set aside IRB for right now
Spiral Theas: Credibility + Perceptions. Nice.
Mimi Muircastle: Some of us are interested in non 9-5 jobs :)
AJ Brooks: and access could be an entire meeting
Kimbeau Surveryor will not mention language labs :-D
Spiral Theas: Yes, good idea. IRB is very specific to each university.
Ahlan Oh: (Margaret, you need a THIRD life)
Anetha Gyranaut: vle
Xann Kanto: the 18-year dividing line is a big one at the undergrad level
AJ Brooks: lest talk about PERCEPTIONS
AJ Brooks: how do you deal with perceptions
Birdie Newcomb: distance4 learning, mostly by now
AJ Brooks: credibility
Kali Pizzaro: Blackboard Iggy - still some folk don't like it
AJ Brooks: acceptance
Anetha Gyranaut: i remember fighting for the right to have online materials
AJ Brooks: prejudice
Profdan Netizen: Exactly, Xann--esp in community colleges.
Spiral Theas: I did a teacher training in St. Louis last week (at Wash U)
DanielG Tigerfish: web 2.0 tools went through a similar "non-cred" issue it seems like about 4 years ago maybe?
Marc Rexen: Low-key, talk through an example.
Spiral Theas: And we did a new thing I'd never tried before.
Kimbeau Surveryor: I remember fighting to allow internet access in schools.
CathyWyo1 Haystack: I have often thought it would be interesting to get some grasp of the numbers of k-8 being taught using vw tech and see where colleges and universities age students will be looking for the same experiences
Spiral Theas: It helped with the skeptics.
Spiral Theas: here's what we did.
AJ Brooks: the Internet went through that Cred issue BIG TIME
Kimbeau Surveryor: and before that, email
Xann Kanto: i was < 18 nearly my entire frosh year
Spiral Theas: We created avatars in advance.
Spiral Theas: 16 of 'em.
Profdan Netizen: Iggy, online teaching was very much met with skepticism in late nineties.
Ahlan Oh: Part of the problem is that VW's are not usually accessible to the average person, so all they hear are the rumors and stories, and can't experience it easily for themselves.
Spiral Theas: So when the teachers came int he room...
Spiral Theas: the log on screen was up on the computer....
Spiral Theas: and all they had to do was log in.
Alan Sandalwood: COmparison with SL numbers versus those of larger worlds such as WoW. People believe SL is dead or dying and so not worth the investment
Spiral Theas: And they were in world, moving around.
Kali Pizzaro: interesting Spiral
AJ Brooks: Alan - they say that ever 4 months
Katie Fenstalker: I have been thinking of avatars in advance.... And practicing before going in world....
Spiral Theas: We took them right to three planned places in a row
Spiral Theas: (we picked them for specific reasons)
Dusty Artaud: Spiral, do same with ppl I bring in
Kimbeau Surveryor introduced personal email accounts to school pupils in 1985. That was met with a lot of skepticism.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: exactly--I was expecting those answers, really. SL or something like it will gain acceptance in time.
Spiral Theas: That helped to answer the question right away of "why SL?"
AJ Brooks: If I had a dollar for every "SL is dying" story, I could retire!
Alan Sandalwood: Thanks for the info, I know its not true but...
Ahlan Oh: (I'll take some of that action too, AJ)
RobertK Scorpio: They used to say the same thing about the internet, and all it did was evolve.
Alan Sandalwood: Need to find hard numbers for back up
Spiral Theas: I think it helped to not have them fuss with the whole download, get your avatar, change the appearance thing...
AJ Brooks: for everyone "its dying" article, you can google 10 wonderful things educators are doing in SL articles
Katie Fenstalker: I still get the "all the sims are empty" business -- as if they were once full.....
Spiral Theas: which is a distraction for many.
AJ Brooks: but the "its dying" sells advertising
Kimbeau Surveryor: In the issues, we did not mention problems with preserving and managing content here.
Kimbeau Surveryor: (Thinking of sl maybe dying)
Dusty Artaud: we need to put our own spin on SL
AJ Brooks: which is why this, like other academic issues, needs to be looked at constructively
Joy Rembrandt: I need ideas in how to apply this to the curriculum
zamfir Paule: this place was empty too about half an hour ago but now it is very crowded..
Anetha Gyranaut: i have showed sl to one of my very techie colleagues and she hates it
AJ Brooks: 101 Uses of SL in the College Classroom
AJ Brooks: by Megan ......
zamfir Paule: So SL places are usually event based..
AJ Brooks: uh
Anetha Gyranaut: she says the graphics are clunky compared to games
AJ Brooks: Conklin
AJ Brooks: at Elon
Kimbeau Surveryor's kids think it's "sad" here.
Anetha Gyranaut: I think she doesn't realise we create the places here
Dusty Artaud: sad?
Olivia Hotshot: the SLER group could probably author that document. 101 Uses for Educators
Raloc Dorado: Just because someone is technical doesn't guarantee they will like it
Katie Fenstalker: @Anetha -- I get that too -- the techy ones say OpenSim not SL.
AJ Brooks: its already done
Anetha Gyranaut: i have hears 'sad' too
AJ Brooks: and its wonderful
Zotarah Shepherd: YOu cannot build in those other places like you can here though.
AJ Brooks: I use it all the time
Rachelle Munro: or update the document
Kimbeau Surveryor: sad = uk-speak for very un-cool.
RobertK Scorpio: We had the same problem today with one of our teachers, we were showing Sl as part of our Web 2.0 staff development, and one teacher was turned off because her avatar wouldn't load.
Anetha Gyranaut: The building is the BEST part -- i prefer self created graphics to a package
AJ Brooks: "101 Uses of Second Life in the College Classroom" by Megan Conklin
Olivia Hotshot: Students and educators need to learn how to function, teach, create, and learn in virtual immersize environments regardless of branding (sorry Geo)
AJ Brooks: lets keep this to NON VIRTUAL WORLD ISSUE though
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: BTW, for the "SL is dying" crowd, pull some of Tateru Nino's stats on what is going on in-world: http://www.massively.com/bloggers/tateru-nino/
Xann Kanto: I think we should think more and more in terms of VWs tho, not just SL
AJ Brooks: we are shifting into IN WORLD issues
Mimi Muircastle: yes, Olivia - great point :)
AJ Brooks: those are important, just not the focus of this meeting
Rachelle Munro: we can add a lot to Megan's document noting current projects, etc
Anetha Gyranaut: but how can we convince colleagues?
Kimbeau Surveryor: Picking up on the educational resource comment, creating more material would add a lot of credibility.
AJ Brooks: so - how do we convince others this is worth the tie and effort
Mimi Muircastle: Has anyone created a specific training model to intro new teachers?
CathyWyo1 Haystack: colleges an universities developing certificate programs in ed tech or virtual reality will change that ..the push will come from businesses and corporations as they advance their use of vw's
Raloc Dorado: and you can buy things here and people say "you spend real money on virtual things?" And can't understand that, despite that they spend real money on say television
CathyWyo1 Haystack: it will happen
Spiral Theas: I agree, Xann. Good point.
Zotarah Shepherd: I have
CathyWyo1 Haystack: did you see the presentation from the Ceo from cisco
Mimi Muircastle: I agree with you Cathy
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: @Raloc, tell them you are buying software
CathyWyo1 Haystack: very interesting
Dusty Artaud: non-VW then: how do get your learning lab up to speed so that SL is a robust experience?
AJ Brooks: GREAT - Dusty
Olivia Hotshot: However, for now, we are in SL, so no sense being Paul revere, lets get people used to immersion and practices and then let the software companies fight it out.
Kimbeau Surveryor likes the real money on TV analogy.
Spiral Theas: The one I just described, Mimi, worked really well for me.
Joy Rembrandt: VR technology is expensive, and takes time to develop. there is definitely interest in higher ed to pursue this. not everyone has the budget and time. where to get support?
Mimi Muircastle: Again, great point Olivia
Margaret Michalski: @Ah, presenting a projects that relates to both in-world and traditional
Katie Fenstalker: time and or it is "addictive."
Spiral Theas: How about case studies?
Olivia Hotshot thinks Mimi should travel with me.
Spiral Theas: Specific examples of use cases in the classroom?
Mimi Muircastle: Just ask & I will be there :)
CathyWyo1 Haystack: partnerships with business and university/colleges I wonder if there are any examples?
Olivia Hotshot: Spiral, do you subscribe to SLED listserv?
Spiral Theas: Yup.
Mimi Muircastle: I like the idea of case studies - people listen to real stories
AJ Brooks: has anyone successfully convinced colleagues to try SL?
Olivia Hotshot: Ok, lots of use cases seem to pop up there.
Margaret Michalski: yes
Olivia Hotshot: Yes.
Dusty Artaud: Cathy what we are starting to do - partnership with TCNJ
AJ Brooks: case studies - has anyone put that together?
Spiral Theas: Exactly. well told stories with specific examples.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: @Olivia--some are suspect--sample size is too small
Olivia Hotshot: @Dusty are you in NJ?
Zotarah Shepherd: Some say they will try SL but I have not seen them inworld yet
Spiral Theas: Yes, that's true Olivia.
Mimi Muircastle: exactly AJ - we need to collect stories of successful instances of convincing
Spiral Theas: But I was thinking more fleshed out.
Dusty Artaud: yes NY/NJ
Anetha Gyranaut: i have tried and failed
AJ Brooks: ok - so why doesn't the SLER start to put that together
Kimbeau Surveryor: Outside of education, my colleagues say "I'm a grown up, I don't want to mess with using a toy for meetings"
AJ Brooks: who would be willing to work on that?
Olivia Hotshot: @Iggy, have to agree with you. Excellent point, esp since I am just now having to cite stats constantly.
Mimi Muircastle: I would be happy to
Spiral Theas: Me too.
Olivia Hotshot: What is that AJ?
Dusty Artaud: work on what AJ?
Xann Kanto: case studies don't have to depend on sample size if they're in the qualitative line of research
Mimi Muircastle: Work on stories
Kali Pizzaro: "As a result the OECD member countries have now proposed that OECD should commence a major study on virtual worlds" Digital Britain Report http://www.culture.gov.uk/images/publications/chpt4_digitalbritain-finalreport-jun09.pdf For info
AJ Brooks: putting together an SLER presentation on case studies
Anetha Gyranaut: Geoff, how many came to the sl workshop in Leeds in 2008?
Olivia Hotshot: Excellent idea AJ!
Geoff Lumley: Maybe seven or eight
AJ Brooks: something we can link to virtualworldsedu.info
CathyWyo1 Haystack: Virtual world assessment group may have somet hing
Anetha Gyranaut: and have any of them continued?
Kimbeau Surveryor: @Kali, I missed that paragraph. ty!
CathyWyo1 Haystack: I also downloaded 21 articles from peer reviewed journals published since April
Kali Pizzaro: np
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: @Xann--I'm in Rhet and Comp and we love qualitative work. I'm writing an article along those lines about my last class in SL. But many admins want a big sample.
Margaret Michalski: I will be happy to share my story but no time for putting it together.
CathyWyo1 Haystack: I have them but didn't upload them there
AJ Brooks: so far I have Mimim and Spiral - anyone else willing to volunteer
Jennette Forager hopes she is not sitting on anyone.
CathyWyo1 Haystack: ooh you have them too mimi ha
CathyWyo1 Haystack: forgot
Olivia Hotshot: Beautiful skirt jeanette.
Geoff Lumley: Only those who I know are from the staff development unit. But even their interest seems to be waning
Jennette Forager beams. "eshi"
Mimi Muircastle: yes, Cathy I have the articles you sent me :)
zamfir Paule: CathyWyo1, can you have the list 21 journal articles?
Olivia Hotshot: I know =)
Xann Kanto: @Ignatius, I understand that... from a selling POV
Dusty Artaud: AJ case studies - LL very interested in promoting them - good to have their support
zamfir Paule: the list of 21 journal articles..
Olivia Hotshot: You have excellent taste.
CathyWyo1 Haystack: ohh give me time on that one
Jennette Forager: list??
CathyWyo1 Haystack: just downloaded them
Kali Pizzaro: My colleagues are in the process of writing up their findings were they used Sl for assessing decision -maiking skills for student nurses
Jennette Forager raises her hand.
Spiral Theas: That sounds like a great one, Kali.
AJ Brooks: Folks - can I get everyone attention for ONE sec?
Dusty Artaud: sure
Mimi Muircastle: I have a contact at Univ. of Pacific I can ask if you like
AJ Brooks: clearly this has hit a good nerve for folks
Katie Fenstalker: attends to AJ.
zamfir Paule: from where can we download them?
AJ Brooks: and there is an idea on the table
Birdie Newcomb: rephrase please
AJ Brooks: for the SLER to produce case studies that people can refer to
CathyWyo1 Haystack: I got them from Proquest database that I have access to
Jennette Forager: empty seats at 9 o'clock
Ahlan Oh: The case study project is very promising. But it raises another question--although some people's biases keep them from wanting to be involved, perhaps we haven't yet provided enough.... clear substance to attract and retain others who may be more sympathetic.
Geoff Lumley: Excellent idea
Katie Fenstalker: produce or report on?
AJ Brooks: I have two people who have already volunteered to work on that "subcommittee"
AJ Brooks: I want to make sure I don't miss anyone
AJ Brooks: first report back to this group - then to publish to the web
Dusty Artaud: I will AJ
Kimbeau Surveryor is thinking -- since VWs are hard work to get into, learn about and manage, there has to be a convincing case that the effort is worth it. That's the story the case studies have to tell.
Kali Pizzaro: yep
AJ Brooks: so - other than Mimi and Spiral.....and DUsty, anyone else?
Mimi Muircastle: what is the timeline that you are talking about, AJ?
Joy Rembrandt: I am in higher ed in CT. eager to get into all aspects of VR, SL. if there are anyone in the area willing to work on this together, please contact me.
Katie Fenstalker: yes Kimbeau.
Jennette Forager: I can contribute the FASB story.
Anetha Gyranaut: are they that hard?
Pipsqueak Fiddlesticks: I will assist, AJ
Zotarah Shepherd: I will AJ
AJ Brooks: no timeline mimi - I'll let the subcommittee work that out
Raloc Dorado: Sorry I have to disappear, looking forward to reading the transcript, bye everyone
Spiral Theas: Joy, I am in Boston.
Olivia Hotshot: bye Raloc
Jennette Forager: We have 40-50 people from all over the world in SL every week.
CathyWyo1 Haystack: I would love to help but I am just too swamped
Alan Sandalwood: I'm a noob here,but if I can help,let me know.
Kali Pizzaro: Bye
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: tc Raloc--I'll post the transcript soon
Mimi Muircastle: Cathy, send me your info, I have time :)
CathyWyo1 Haystack: but Mimi if you need more or want me to check something i proquest let me know
Anetha Gyranaut: is sl hard to get into, though?
CathyWyo1 Haystack: I can do that
Mimi Muircastle: will do, Cathy
CathyWyo1 Haystack: and have access to dissertations too
Zotarah Shepherd: I have started to collect examples of education in SL for the class I will be teaching at SSU.
Joy Rembrandt: Spiral, can we get together later. I am working to keep up the conversation!
Dusty Artaud: AJ as aside, the np and business communities are also doing case studies
Jennette Forager: SL? hard to get into?
Mimi Muircastle: Spiral, I am on the SLER listserve
Kali Pizzaro: i started my project purely through Sl with the Tech while i was off sick with a broken ankle - sad i know ;-)
Eliasdehart Sixpence doesn't have a case to study yet. :-)
AJ Brooks: ok - so, Mimi, Spiral, Dusty, Pipsqueek, and Zotarah - I'll ping each of you after the meeting to get the ball rolling
Spiral Theas: Sure, Joy!
Mimi Muircastle: Great
AJ Brooks: if there is anyone else interested - please IM Me
CathyWyo1 Haystack: someone should do something on the fear factor I think that is what holds a lot back from getting gin to sl
Kimbeau Surveryor: @Anetha. Yes, for non-techies in a classroom situation it can be terrifying. You could easily spend all your time getting it all to work, on a bad day.
Dusty Artaud: PING ping or just ping?
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Ref for transcript: Snapshot of VW use in the UK, Summer 2009. I PDF report with lots of data for your skeptics: http://virtualworldwatch.net/
AJ Brooks: lol - just ping
Zotarah Shepherd: I am on the teen grid as well if we want to include some of those projects in the list.
CathyWyo1 Haystack: If we could figure out who is behind the avatars who have not returned and survey them somehow
Anetha Gyranaut: yes Kimbeau -- we have not had the OPPORTUNITY to use it in a classroom setting.
Marc Rexen: I pull Profs aside who might be getting into SL and talk frankly about creating two AV's, one they use socially and hide their true identity, and one they teach with.
Anetha Gyranaut: that is what I do
Profdan Netizen: Value--we have to convince other s in our institutions of the concrete benefits we gain from using SL as compared to other 2D online apps, like Blackboard or Angel.
Xann Kanto: me too
Kimbeau Surveryor: @Anthea, *nods* maybe it's just not mature enough for that sort of group work
AJ Brooks: wow - even I'M having trouble keeping up today - this is AWESOME!!!!!!!
Marc Rexen: This has settled several...gives them the ability to "learn and try" out of the public eye (at whatever level).
Geoff Lumley: That's a good policy Marc. I'd bet that most of us have at least two avs
Mimi Muircastle: I have thought about an alt :)
AJ Brooks: I have several
Spiral Theas: I have three.
Anetha Gyranaut is having trouble with two and not planning any more
Spiral Theas: :-)
CathyWyo1 Haystack: egads!
Katie Fenstalker: is there a limit on number of alts?
Anetha Gyranaut: i keep forgetting who I know in which av
Kali Pizzaro: i have been approached by others who saw a presentation i did in our Caledonian Academy (dedicated to research in t&L) change their outlook after seeing my project and my colleagues
Spiral Theas: One for teaching, one for anonymity, one that has my REAL name.
Dusty Artaud neglects her alts
Ahlan Oh: I create a new alt about every 6 months when I have to try out the current sign on scheme so I can document it for my new students.
Alan Sandalwood: As far as news feeds go, i have a small collection that I can share. Email me at alan.haywood@gmail.com and I 'll send a share invite for google reader
Xann Kanto: Xann is my edu alt, Zann is and artist, Xanadeux is a dressmaker :D
Mimi Muircastle: foster alts :)
Mimi Muircastle: I need a shopping alt!
CathyWyo1 Haystack: thinking about getting an alt and partying
DanielG Tigerfish: one avatar is enough to deal with for me!
CathyWyo1 Haystack: laughs
Kali Pizzaro: i am loosing the plot tonight
Anetha Gyranaut: I completely protect my original....
Xann Kanto: hehe
Elizabeth Towton: don't have an alt
Anetha Gyranaut: he leads a very different life
CathyWyo1 Haystack: whoot whoot
AJ Brooks: AJ is my work ALT, Wealthy Mizser is my personal alt (and owns an art gallery) and I have two alts on the Teen grid, and then one for groups and maintenance of our islands
Eliasdehart Sixpence: will get a different alt when the college pays for it
CathyWyo1 Haystack: oh no what did I do that for
Kali Pizzaro: i do but is a patient haha
Alan Sandalwood: How many alts can you have, my to-be-adopted son tried to use my home machine and was told that he couldn't because of a location limit
Zotarah Shepherd: I try to create a new alt an get the message that I already have the maximum number allowed.
AJ Brooks: Kali - thanks for the reminder
Anetha Gyranaut: i have seen some alts provided for students that are sort of generic: is that a good idea to facilitate entry?
AJ Brooks: Folks - we're supposed to be focusing on NON VIRTUAL WORLDS ISSUES
Jennette Forager: I like Ahlan's notion of "newbie mind"
Kali Pizzaro: eh
Xann Kanto: hmmm i have 5 alts
Kali Pizzaro: ah
Marc Rexen: Alts are...AJ.
CathyWyo1 Haystack: Caledon has very nice looking avatars for free
AJ Brooks: are they?
AJ Brooks: how, marc?
AJ Brooks: :-)
Dusty Artaud: AJ group very ADHD today
Jennette Forager: Keep trying Alan....
Marc Rexen: Gets people through the incredibly difficult first two months.
Jennette Forager: I have an army of 35.
Xann Kanto: @Dusty LOL
Jennette Forager: Not all my alts tho...
AJ Brooks: but thats still in-world, no?
Jennette Forager: I use them for work.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Here's a NON-VW tip: watch your student assistants. Fred, bless his heart, and a colleague of his got our crew back on track after they'd done no work at all.
CathyWyo1 Haystack: holy cow what kind of parting ar eyou up to
Alan Sandalwood: @Jeanette. Will do
Ahlan Oh: /whispers to jennette, thanks for the encouragement
Mimi Muircastle: If you tell who your alts are, are they still alts :)
AJ Brooks: lol
CathyWyo1 Haystack: books on second life
CathyWyo1 Haystack: there are some good ones
AJ Brooks: this group IS most def. ADHD tonight
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: They were trying to build outside SL w/o doing research on how to import the files.
AJ Brooks: The DUmmies guide, I think, its the beset
Anetha Gyranaut: yes CathyWyo, I have nice NCI skins
Elizabeth Towton: i'm trying to keep up
Olivia Hotshot: AJ, pot calling ....
Katie Fenstalker: (still wants to know if there is a limit on number of alts allowed.)
CathyWyo1 Haystack: I tell you I really like the Second LIfe Grid
AJ Brooks: lol - yes, olivia
Xann Kanto is biting her ADHD tongue
Spiral Theas: Yes, me too, Cathy
Elizabeth Towton: english not my primary language though I do speak and write and read it well
AJ Brooks: Katie - they just set a limit - is George still here?
Ahlan Oh: maybe everyone needs to take a 10 second time out......
Jennette Forager: there is a limit Katie...
CathyWyo1 Haystack: now I have the Metaverse manifesto and I am going what the heck does this mean
Fred Brecher: That wasn't the problem, Iggy.
Mimi Muircastle: I turned off my gestures to stay non ADD
Anetha Gyranaut: no-one is keeping up, Elizabeth!
Jennette Forager: But LL is ADD about it.
Jennette Forager: so keep trying.
Elizabeth Towton: lol good.....not the only one then
Olivia Hotshot: Geroge - anyone know the max number of alts any one person has had in sl?
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Fred, I do stand corrected on that :)
Kali Pizzaro: or alcohol Alan oh ;-)
AJ Brooks shouts: GEORGE LINDEN?
Ahlan Oh: we already started the alcohol
Jennette Forager: or his alt?
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: What advice would you give to those working with student builders?
Firery Broome: I think it is 5 per email account
AJ Brooks: lol
Zotarah Shepherd: 5
CathyWyo1 Haystack: oh thank god did someone say alcohol
Olivia Hotshot: and we all know email accounts are ummm unlimited.
Firery Broome: if you want more you have to use another e-mail address
Mimi Muircastle: so, do a new gmail acct. and you can have infinite alts :)
Kimbeau Surveryor: AJ. Is there any chance of focusing the chat? :-)
AJ Brooks: I'm trying Kim
Spiral Theas: My head is spinning!
Katie Fenstalker: thanks Zotarah and Fiery.
Ahlan Oh: LOL
Marla Lexenstar: I agree with Kimbeau
AJ Brooks: the group is of course tonight
Olivia Hotshot: Kimbeau - the million dollar question
Jennette Forager: how often do you crash this sim during this meeting?
AJ Brooks: HEY
AJ Brooks: EVERYONE
Alan Sandalwood: I had a too many avatars for my address - don't know if that was IP or RL
AJ Brooks: HEY
AJ Brooks: STOP
Xann Kanto is still biting her tongue
Kali Pizzaro: stand to attention
AJ Brooks: HANDS OFF THE KEYBOARD
AJ Brooks: LOL
AJ Brooks: (like with kids)
Katie Fenstalker: and Mimi.
Jennette Forager restrains herself.
AJ Brooks: ok
Spiral Theas: attending AJ closely.
Kali Pizzaro: feels the slap on the back of her head
AJ Brooks: looks sternly at Jennette
CathyWyo1 Haystack: it's been a long week
AJ Brooks: I've been asked to focus the meeting
AJ Brooks: we're off on MANY directions
Katie Fenstalker: attends carefully.
Ahlan Oh: good luck!
AJ Brooks: and that is good
AJ Brooks: for the transcript
AJ Brooks: but we really DO need to try to get some focus on our conversation
AJ Brooks: so - non-virtual worlds issues - convincing people to try SL
AJ Brooks: what do you do?
Anetha Gyranaut wishes she knew
Olivia Hotshot: Maybe we just have so many issues AJ, it is hard to compress them into one conversation?
Elizabeth Towton: I got my friend to try it
Spiral Theas: Give specific teaching applications.
Jennette Forager: build a case....
Kali Pizzaro: show and tell - make sure it is easy to see how the students are going to use it to learn
Xann Kanto: i have a hard time with the addiction objection, because i think there's a measure of truth to it
Marla Lexenstar: you need a reason for trying it - SL
Anetha Gyranaut: Elizabeth, I have failed to get any friend to try it....
Jennette Forager: don't get over enthusiastic
CathyWyo1 Haystack: It is so much like distance learning and lms it's jus not for everyone
Pipsqueak Fiddlesticks: Convincing Information Technology departments to support us is a difficult challenge
Jennette Forager: support with white papers and published reports
CathyWyo1 Haystack: some will love it some won't
Profdan Netizen: The key is to show benefits to class/students that they can't get in 2d LMS.
Margaret Michalski: show examples related to them
zamfir Paule: I think everybody here is interested in practical use of SL (or VW)
Olivia Hotshot: provide research, stats, facts, and present logically combined with demonstrations
Kali Pizzaro: yep jeanette
Elizabeth Towton: she likes it very much and uses support groups here that she's a part of in rl too
Spiral Theas: be frank about the drawbacks (so you don't sound like a zealot).
Jennette Forager: yup
Dusty Artaud: only use equipment that is up to the job for handling SL graphics -initially impression important
Katie Fenstalker: well I say it's fun......
AJ Brooks: YES SPIRAL
zamfir Paule: then do we need to have another identity in SL (like another name and appearance)?
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: @Jeanette--yes. Don't cheerlead and show them some good student work from SL but not using SL--like a wiki or slideshow. Then take them in world over your shoulder.
CathyWyo1 Haystack: but when they see business using virtual worlds or reality plus an economy that kind of curtails travel all of a sudden vw seems like a good investment for a variety of things
Jennette Forager: right
Pipsqueak Fiddlesticks: @Spiral, agreed
Jennette Forager: don't bring them in-world!!!! Start out slow!
zamfir Paule: for newbies, it takes time or sometimes frustrating to make new things..
Mimi Muircastle: yes Cathy
Kali Pizzaro: yep Olivia and show them that quote from digital Britain - show me the money - research
Kimbeau Surveryor: agrees with Prof -- benefits are the key.
Katie Fenstalker: get them to watch Metanomics....
CathyWyo1 Haystack: sorry about typos I am terrible and don't have my glasses on
Margaret Michalski: I showed snapshots
Kali Pizzaro: ;-0
AJ Brooks: ok - so lets shift gears for a second
Xann Kanto: i showed snapshots too
Eliasdehart Sixpence: gotta fly to another meeting
AJ Brooks: how do you convince your boss or admin to let you try SL?
Geoff Lumley used a couple of short movies on YouTube
Margaret Michalski: a picture of their current project in-world
Profdan Netizen: I found just showing snapshots to colleagues not enough, wanted to see SL live.
Zotarah Shepherd: There are many machinimas about Education in SL.
Elizabeth Towton: I would love to be able to use educational features more here
CathyWyo1 Haystack: the big attraction in my view is the ease of having interactions wit people from all over the worlds the social networking and learning experience that is created or self created
Anetha Gyranaut: i have recruited a PhD student (if he gets a visa)
Jennette Forager: Nothing, nothing! beats letting them watch over your shoulder, some great, serious event.
Ahlan Oh: you develop a strong personal/professional relationship first, so they trust you.....
Katie Fenstalker: boss brought it to a momentary standstill....
Kimbeau Surveryor thinks you don't convince bosses, often, you just get on with it in stealth mode.
Elizabeth Towton: but i'm in iceland......not really an sl time friendly
Margaret Michalski: show examples of how their current project be done in-world and save time.
CathyWyo1 Haystack: VWBPE was awesome
Jennette Forager nods.
Mimi Muircastle: I like Margaret's idea
AJ Brooks: save time! good - and save money - good - that attracts admins
Katie Fenstalker: VWBPE did it for ME.
CathyWyo1 Haystack: the land expo, the 6th anniversary event
Mimi Muircastle: time and money are big issues
Anetha Gyranaut: isn' t Iceland a good time bridge Europe/America?
Kali Pizzaro: How it enhances the student experience and internationalizes the curriculum ;-) hehe
Profdan Netizen: if you can prove improved retention, you'll get admin attention.
CathyWyo1 Haystack: those are hard work but you can really promote vw's that way
Kali Pizzaro: oh spelling
AJ Brooks: time and money
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Convince your boss by getting a grant and then NEEDING a technology
CathyWyo1 Haystack: and then you are interacting with other educators on a global scale
Zotarah Shepherd: In my announcement to local schools I think I would say, "If you leave this class still skeptical about the value of virtual worlds in Education then at least you will be an informed and experienced skeptic."
Anetha Gyranaut: retention not applicable in my department
AJ Brooks: STRAW POLL
AJ Brooks: STRAW POLL
Mimi Muircastle: perhaps there are some content areas that are stronger than others for teaching in SL?
Spiral Theas: Nice Zotarah.
Elizabeth Towton: sl eats up bandwidth and costs me a lot of money
Olivia Hotshot: It is not a bad idea to host events on your campus when events in SL are taking place - like the educators' faire - show it off then.
Xann Kanto: @Ignatius ... grants excellent idea
Elizabeth Towton: in iceland
AJ Brooks: How many people here are instructors - say YES
Kimbeau Surveryor loves Zotarah's lateral think.
Pipsqueak Fiddlesticks: yes
Profdan Netizen: yes
Marla Lexenstar: YES
Spiral Theas: yes
Olivia Hotshot: yes
Alan Sandalwood: I did a sneaky, I innocently asked my Blended trial group if they would like 2L just before they were surveyed by management.
Xann Kanto: yes
Ahlan Oh: yes
Anetha Gyranaut: 'instructor' means what?
Joy Rembrandt: yes
Katie Fenstalker: y
Mimi Muircastle: not yet, but hoping to be :)
Anetha Gyranaut: yes, i think so
AJ Brooks: instruct something to someone
Margaret Michalski: not yet
Ungo Azambuja: yes
Alan Sandalwood: Yes,
Spiral Theas: teaching teachers counts, right?
Ungo Azambuja: I profess to be one, yes
Kali Pizzaro: yes
Mimi Muircastle: teaching teachers is important!
Kali Pizzaro: and nurse
CathyWyo1 Haystack: an instructor can have sl activities with or without an island from their university as long as the activities are tightly linked to the course outcomes
Spiral Theas: grins at Mimi.
Dusty Artaud: I promote and present but do not instruct yet
Ahlan Oh: does telling your 4 year old how to clean up the mess in the kitchen qualify?
Jennette Forager: YES!!
Spiral Theas: oh, heavens yes!
AJ Brooks: so about 40% of the group
AJ Brooks: nice
Mimi Muircastle: 4 yr olds teach all of us a lot!
CathyWyo1 Haystack: you can always start up ad educlislands, iste, or nmc
Katie Fenstalker: stand in front of students at some point
Zotarah Shepherd: I will be
Jennette Forager: <=teaches
Alan Sandalwood: @Ahlan, totally
Jennette Forager: <=orientates
Elizabeth Towton: have 4 kids and a job and university......would make an excellent teacher one day
Rachelle Munro: adjunct here
Jennette Forager: <=mops up regularly
AJ Brooks: ok
Anetha Gyranaut: i've got the land (thanks to Geoff) but no students there...
AJ Brooks: so - let me ask the group
AJ Brooks: trying to focus ONE MORE time
CathyWyo1 Haystack: teach on line but not in sl
AJ Brooks: lol
Alan Sandalwood: Yes
AJ Brooks: A LOT was talked about today
Ahlan Oh: (I didn't do a very good job there. I'm still washing all her dishes, and she's 21!)
AJ Brooks: many strands
Xann Kanto smirks at focus attempt
AJ Brooks: many topics
Katie Fenstalker: focuses carefully.
Pipsqueak Fiddlesticks listens
AJ Brooks: What did YOU learn from today's meeting?
Mimi Muircastle: listening :)
Alan Sandalwood: ommmmm
Kali Pizzaro: exhausted
Olivia Hotshot: multi-tasking
AJ Brooks: lol
Ahlan Oh: we're all in the same boat
Pipsqueak Fiddlesticks: that people have a lot to say?
Anetha Gyranaut: we have to be evangelists!
Spiral Theas: That's it's tough to moderate a group this size, this smart?
Birdie Newcomb: energy, but frustration
Jennette Forager: SL IS the best Social media site.
CathyWyo1 Haystack: there are some rapid fire typists here
Ahlan Oh: and that I need to take a speed reading class.
Katie Fenstalker: Spiral's ideas were helpful to me....
Mimi Muircastle: this is a huge group for a discussion :)
Kali Pizzaro: yep Jennette
Alan Sandalwood: It's always tough to moderate teachers
Marla Lexenstar: this was not what i expected
Rachelle Munro: we all want credibility
Spiral Theas: grins at Katie
Elizabeth Towton: that I really like the idea of learning in sl
Spiral Theas: That I'm not ALONE.
Kali Pizzaro: yeah lots of folks ideas helpful thanks
Marc Rexen: That the core issues are still the same, with some progress having been made over the last year.
Pipsqueak Fiddlesticks: educators are still passionate about virtual worlds
AJ Brooks: ok - gang - seriously - what model, thought, idea, are you walking away from today's meeting with
Kimbeau Surveryor: I learned that VW evangelism is worse than being a door-to-door Christian.
Mimi Muircastle: but we are moving forward since we have a subcommittee formed!
Zotarah Shepherd: If we work together, we can find solutions to our mutual problems - to try at least.
Joy Rembrandt: i am big on student retention (higher ed). if that is also anyone's interest, please contact me.
Spiral Theas: yeah, mimi!
Anetha Gyranaut laughs with Kimbeau
Rachelle Munro: we want empirical or least qualitative case studies to take back to our colleagues
Katie Fenstalker: DEMONSTRATE!
Alan Sandalwood: @AJ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pk7yqlTMvp8
Olivia Hotshot: That a lot of the same concerns come up time after time regardless of topic.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: @Anetha, watch your metaphors. I'd say "we have to show them results with a class and meet a goal they want to meet, too." I avoid the "awe" of SL now with colleagues.
CathyWyo1 Haystack: me too iggy
Mimi Muircastle: awe brings on suspicious stares :)
Xann Kanto too busy LOLing in RL to respond
AJ Brooks: lol
Ahlan Oh: shock and awe....
Marla Lexenstar: SL has to make connections to learning gains
AJ Brooks: ewwwww
AJ Brooks: no
Jennette Forager: Good point Ignatius.
Anetha Gyranaut grovels before Iggy realising he is right
Zotarah Shepherd: I am planning to create one of those case studies if I ever get the sim. Still waiting for Lindens to approve it.
Margaret Michalski: edu is still in the need to convince people that SL is good for edu
Mimi Muircastle: yes, Marla, but have to get folks here first, right?
Marc Rexen: Yes, low key expectations...get them in, then, boom, they have a conversation, or see something, and it clicks.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: yes--and if you can use assessment to show the students' gains compared to other students, even better
Kali Pizzaro: tell the truth it ain't going to work for everyone but the potential is great and it would be negligible to our students to ignore something which may enhance their learning
Profdan Netizen: Benefits of 3D over 2D esp for online classes.
CathyWyo1 Haystack: Educause has some good resources
Mimi Muircastle: true Kali
Spiral Theas: yes, Kali!!!
AJ Brooks: is SL just another tool - or is it really a new platform for learning?
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Anetha, my biggest mistake outside SL was to do this "cutesy" presentation early on...I lost a golden chance to win over some colleagues.
Fred Brecher: As much as I am for assessment, there are other technologies employed in teaching with little to show for it.
Mimi Muircastle: I think it is both, AJ
Kimbeau Surveryor is worried that getting people (colleagues) in too early can be counterproductive
Zotarah Shepherd: Intellagirl has a good website about SL too.
Anetha Gyranaut: we have demonstrated that a year overseas improves grades but students are still reluctant
Profdan Netizen: SL is a place, more than a tool.
Margaret Michalski: everything is about time, money and convincing people
Katie Fenstalker: platform for learning or A KIND OF LEARNING?
Elizabeth Towton: I love the idea of being able to study online here
Mimi Muircastle: both, Katie
Marc Rexen: A tool for communication with real benefits for a few areas.
CathyWyo1 Haystack: make me wonder what happened to our spirit of play and play for learning
Elizabeth Towton: I am studying online in iceland uni
zamfir Paule: I think SL can be a new platform for 'distance' learning (not generally for learning)
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: @Fred, I'm thinking as a writing teacher. My student in SL came out of our assessment this year very well. But he was already a strong writer and thinker. [Iggy's note: this was for our annaul SACS assessment--each comp teacher had a student randomly selected.]
Profdan Netizen: A place for learning more than a platform for learning?
Xann Kanto: sense of presence seldom attained in distance education
Dusty Artaud: SL is a community with lots of tools
Katie Fenstalker: I think emphasizing it as a delivery system is not exciting enough.
Kali Pizzaro: yeah but at the end of the day the student has to take some responsibility for learning we don't get them past the post they do
Zotarah Shepherd: I see education in virtual worlds as inevitable. We have to work at speeding up the usage.
AJ Brooks: Oh - as an aside, I did ask - and here is the answer.....
Mimi Muircastle: yes Xann!!!!
AJ Brooks: [15:12] AJ Brooks: is there a limit on alts?
[15:13] George Linden: I don't believe so, I think the limit is on the number of accounts registered per email address
zamfir Paule: sense of 'co'presence
Geoff Lumley thinks the big attraction of SL as a learning platform is that all learning becomes experiential
Olivia Hotshot: @zamfir - i learn something constantly from people at a distance - that is the beauty - i don't limit my learning
Kimbeau Surveryor: @Prof: sl is a place only if we choose to treat it as such. Sl is actually just and authoring language.
Mimi Muircastle: Yes, Zotorah
Marc Rexen: It's the "Presence" that is what SL has, that's most compelling.
CathyWyo1 Haystack: those who have the most success with using sl are enthusiastic with their students and encourage fun at the same time as learning
Xann Kanto: human connection.... huge part of adult education
Xann Kanto: or any ed
Spiral Theas: Yes, Marc!!!
Kali Pizzaro: yep Cathy and i am sure you are the same in rl -
Anetha Gyranaut would like to exploit the international in her own teaching
Mimi Muircastle: I especially like the democratic feeling that you can talk with anyone
Katie Fenstalker: ty AJ re number alts.
Marc Rexen: Making that trust connection can be critical for a real course that changes students, Vs. one they take for a grade.
Alan Sandalwood: @Xann, that's what I'm hoping
Geoff Lumley: Marc's right. The feeling of 'being there' is fundamental to success
Jennette Forager: being there ....with other people.
AJ Brooks: its what makes this better than Elluminate Live
Olivia Hotshot: I have a crazy question: How many of you have dreamed about SL?
Mimi Muircastle: I still think some content areas lend themselves to SL better than others
Jennette Forager grins.
Kimbeau Surveryor: me
Alan Sandalwood: Yes
Anetha Gyranaut: other people all over the world (sounding evangelical again)
Anetha Gyranaut: me
Katie Fenstalker: I dream about it all the time.....
Jennette Forager: Dreamed of FLYING!??
Marc Rexen: We had Elluminate...this is far, far better.
Spiral Theas: Oh, yes!! I have, Olivia!
Joy Rembrandt: student engagement
AJ Brooks: elw - I have looked at something in the non-virtual worlds and said what a great texture that would be
Katie Fenstalker: I dream of what to do next in SL
Olivia Hotshot: hmmmm anyone else?
Ungo Azambuja: I strongly suspect that, if it hasn't been done already, a well-constructed study would show that VWs intensify student attention quite beneficially, and if so, then it's not "just another platform"
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Olivia, I dreamed I was my alt, Pappy.
Xann Kanto: in my research that was the single most important reason for coming back to SL... people
Jennette Forager: that's hard core, AJ>
Mimi Muircastle: I try to zoom in on things :)
Kali Pizzaro: its also great in a meeting like this that their is no ego's
Olivia Hotshot: =) at Iggy
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: More a nightmare
zamfir Paule: haha.. I have worked in SL in my dream.. just making some buildings.. ^^
Anetha Gyranaut: i DO make rl things into textures!
Mimi Muircastle: yes, Kali the absence of egos is so refreshing
Margaret Michalski: if you count dissertation proposal defense than yes
Katie Fenstalker: reason to come back to SL is people and FUN.
Ungo Azambuja: it's hard to be egotistical when we all spell so poorly
Jennette Forager nods with Katie.
Jennette Forager: hahahha!
Olivia Hotshot: I had a prof tell me they came in and dreamed that night of SL. I think this is usual. He was scared, i personally thought it was cool.
Pipsqueak Fiddlesticks: lol
Spiral Theas: humbling...
Alan Sandalwood: hahaha
Jennette Forager: mirror neurons
Marc Rexen: THe Presence issue, can be so critical, it's what let's me look beyond SL's obvious flaws for teaching.
Kali Pizzaro: you should check out this if not already http://www.jisc.ac.uk/publications/documents/seriousvirtualworldsreport.aspx
Mimi Muircastle: equalizing
Zotarah Shepherd: I have been reading some Sci-Fi and Fantasy movie reviews and see more and more comments about the quality of graphics. I think children have come to expect that level of quality in everything. They have lost the ability to suspend disbelief unless visuals are as perfect as possible. It is not the graphics we need to change; it is that attitude.
Jennette Forager: unlocking creativity
Xann Kanto: yup, Katie, that was another big one play
Dusty Artaud: SL is the springboard for 3d web education opportunities - it may evolve at the forefront of 3D web, in which case we are in a good position as early adopters
AJ Brooks throws hands up in the air
Katie Fenstalker: dreaming about SL was one reason to return!
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: But Zo, they like Mario!
AJ Brooks: sometimes you just have to go with the flow
Anetha Gyranaut: good point Zotarah
Mimi Muircastle: yes Dusty!!!!!
Kali Pizzaro: yep Aj
Jennette Forager: It's a great party, AJ!!
Zotarah Shepherd: Yeah some do.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: They get immersed in arcade games
AJ Brooks: A great party indeed
Kali Pizzaro: all good stuff
Spiral Theas: Immersion is key.
AJ Brooks: amazing stuff - are you kidding?
Katie Fenstalker: immersion is not realism.
Anetha Gyranaut: our students tend to be reluctant to create
Kali Pizzaro: check out my link you may have missed it hehe
Spiral Theas: Sense of Presence, as Marc said earlier.
Jennette Forager: and fun...and typos...and passion.
AJ Brooks: this transcript may be worth its weight in gold
CathyWyo1 Haystack: we need to encourage sl to continue to push the boundaries of technology
Ungo Azambuja: immersion is the key--yes
Kali Pizzaro: in the serious virtual worlds report
Olivia Hotshot: Hey if anyone has time, check the Flickr group and tag yourself in any photos you see of yourself? or of others you know?
Anetha Gyranaut: creativity
Alan Sandalwood: I think people want the synchronous communication of Star Trek NG and the asynchronous communication of Aeon flux
Ahlan Oh: Anyone here ever used MooseCrossing? It is a non-graphical MUVE--very interesting to watch young people create and develop narrative voice when there is nothing to look at.
Zotarah Shepherd: That means there is hope.
Katie Fenstalker: immersion is multisensory -- not realism.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Maybe SL tries too hard to be "real" and should take a cue from Metaplace?
Kimbeau Surveryor feels the need for an exploding head animation
Mimi Muircastle: me too - immersion is so important!
AJ Brooks: well - our time is up for this week
CathyWyo1 Haystack: oh no @iggy
Xann Kanto: it is the sense of presence that makes our people contacts so satisfying here
Kali Pizzaro: head pounding
Rachelle Munro: link again to Flickr group, please
Mimi Muircastle: whew!
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Kimbeau, it will all come clear in the transcript. I'll post it soon.
Anetha Gyranaut: sense of presence
Spiral Theas: whew is right!
Kali Pizzaro: help!!!
Anetha Gyranaut: (oops spelling)
Margaret Michalski: @ Iggy, the look of real is the only thing that got my dissertation topic approved.
Ahlan Oh: AJ--can you get everyone to STOP!!! now??
Mimi Muircastle: I think this has been immersive today!!!!
Jennette Forager: SL is what it is, and so is Metaplace. They will each have their communities.
CathyWyo1 Haystack: why do we have to stop laughs
Spiral Theas: claps for AJ - such a good cat herder.
zamfir Paule: I think we have to say 'copresence'
Olivia Hotshot: http://www.flickr.com/groups/sler/pool/
zamfir Paule: tele copresence..
Olivia Hotshot: tag yourself please =)
Jennette Forager: WoHOOO!
Zotarah Shepherd: I keep the Local Chat open and frequently scroll back to catch up.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: never, Ahlan...we keep going and going. and I love my Bobblehead IggyO in Metaplace :)
Mimi Muircastle: good job, AJ!
Ahlan Oh: aliens herder....
Katie Fenstalker: I love co- presence!
Mimi Muircastle: herding and all!
Marc Rexen: The SLoan C conference had a nice paper on the aspect of trust, presence, and realistic AV's...I believe the videos of the sessions are up.
Xann Kanto: cyber copresence
Olivia Hotshot: wow - this place is on uber chat today
zamfir Paule: sense of being together even in distance..
zamfir Paule: even in
Spiral Theas: yes....
Anetha Gyranaut: yes zamfir
Mimi Muircastle: we are immersed!
Kimbeau Surveryor: @AJ, clearly subjects to be extracted from today for future meetings :-)
Kali Pizzaro: ok who gave out the amphetamines on the way in?
CathyWyo1 Haystack: I wonder what the word count would be?
Spiral Theas: Marc, link for that sloan conference paper?
zamfir Paule: there's a research paper saying about taxonomy of this kind of things..
Jennette Forager: I go to conferences and feel that I already know people, because of SL and Twitter.
Zotarah Shepherd: Meetings like this force me to improve my speed reading. lol
Ahlan Oh: it's sort of like a 10 ton flywheel, once it starts, you can't stop it for 12 days....
AJ Brooks: I think I'll make today's meeting into a World
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: AJ has earned his cocktail tonight
Anetha Gyranaut is fueled by tea
Marc Rexen: It's a Media site archive of all of the talks (videos).
CathyWyo1 Haystack: you could do a slamming research paper based on these chats
AJ Brooks: lol
Jennette Forager: oooh! great idea--Wordle!
Spiral Theas: yeah, AJ!
Anetha Gyranaut: yes CathyWyo!
Dusty Artaud shouts: WHO HERE GOING TO SLCC?
Ahlan Oh: well done, AJ
Zotarah Shepherd: I agree Cathy
Mimi Muircastle: you asked, AJ and received!
Elizabeth Towton: I really need to c/p this all to read later lol
Kali Pizzaro: for a small fee you can analyse my chat
Zotarah Shepherd: I wish I could AJ
Spiral Theas: AJ, remember the crickets?
Olivia Hotshot: lets do a slam poetry meeting AJ - reason to use voice
CathyWyo1 Haystack: I am Merlot 2.5 hours south of SLCC
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Elizabeth, it will appear online soon
Eleonora Porta: where zamfir the research paper saying about taxonomy of this kind of things..have you the link please?
Elizabeth Towton: good
Elizabeth Towton: lol
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: I'll send the announcement to the group when it's read
zamfir Paule: ok..
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: ready
zamfir Paule: it's in 'presence' journal published by mit press
AJ Brooks: remember to join the SLER group so you can have a priority say in the survey
Ahlan Oh: Let's go another hour....
CathyWyo1 Haystack: Olivia an dI are going to do an unconferene in a bard the night before Merlot starts and celebrate education in sl
zamfir Paule: let me find the link..
Kali Pizzaro: http://www.jvwresearch.org/v2n1.html
CathyWyo1 Haystack: in a bar
CathyWyo1 Haystack: good grief
AJ Brooks: Everyone is more than welcome to stay here
Olivia Hotshot: too funny
Anetha Gyranaut: where is the bar?
AJ Brooks: there is nothing booked int he space for the rest of the day
Xann Kanto is going back to grading papers
George Linden: Thanks much all, I am sorry I got a little busy as I arrived, I can't wait to read the transcript - thanks for all the great work you do in SL!!
Kali Pizzaro: what fun
Kimbeau Surveryor will be sitting here shellshocked for a while!
Eleonora Porta: ty
Spiral Theas: Gotta run. Mimi and others who volunteered for the case committee, how shall we connect?
Margaret Michalski: I am logging off!
Pipsqueak Fiddlesticks: Thank you
Olivia Hotshot: Good Bye Everyone - please go to flickr and tag yourself in the photos! =) http://www.flickr.com/groups/sler/pool/
Ignatius Onomatopoeia is going to stay until you leave, to log chat, then go drink a Martini
zamfir Paule: http://portal.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=976085 [Ref for "Toward a taxonomy of copresence"]
AJ Brooks: amazing - there are still 36 people here
Ungo Azambuja: I haven't logged this chat--will there be a transcript somewhere?
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Ungo, I'll post it soon
Ahlan Oh is going to take a 10 second nap. Anyone is welcome to join me....
Margaret Michalski: @ Iggy, if you need backup just let me know.
Mimi Muircastle: You can email me at mimimuircastle@gmail.com or twitter at mimimuircastle
Zotarah Shepherd: Glad to work on the Project AJ. Meanwhile I just got a non-profit to sponsor my curriculum project and in getting an educational sim in SL. I am waiting to hear from Jay Linden to approve the non-profit. I think he must be on vacation since it has been about three weeks, since I emailed the documentation and Invoice form to him. I am running out of time to complete my building and project before the fall semester starts.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: thanks Margaret!
Geoff Lumley is off to bed. Goodnight all; very entertaining session. Thanks for keeping order, AJ
Kimbeau Surveryor: Zzzz....
Anetha Gyranaut is looking at a photo of herself in Flickr
zamfir Paule: http://www.mitpressjournals.org/doi/abs/10.1162/105474603322761261 [PDF download of "Toward a Taxonomy of Copresence"]
Xann Kanto: bye all... twas fun!!!
zamfir Paule: if you don't have access to it..
Rachelle Munro: Thanks, AJ!
Ungo Azambuja: wonderful meeting
Kimbeau Surveryor: AJ Rocks!
Marc Rexen: Thanks AJ.
AJ Brooks: thanks everyone
zamfir Paule: http://www.temple.edu/ispr/prev_conferences/proceedings/2001/Zhao.pdf
Zotarah Shepherd: Thanks to Birdie
AJ Brooks: please come back next week - its an open forum
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: LOL
AJ Brooks: which is a REAL free for all
AJ Brooks: LOL
Spiral Theas: claps.
Katie Fenstalker: thanks to everyone.
Olivia Hotshot: omg
Jennette Forager: TY AJ!!
CathyWyo1 Haystack: food fight