Transcript of April 21, 2009 Second Life Roundtable Discussion.
Topic: Administering SL on Campus
Photos Courtesy of Olivia Hotshot (visit her blog and Flickr photostream).
Iggy's Notes: Send corrections to iggyo -at- mac -dot- com
Links Mentioned:
New Media Consortium Orientation Area: http://sl.nmc.org/join/
Some call-out points:
Prospero Linden: Were school administrators suspicious of the web in the early 1990's?
Jonathon Dunn: So the first problem is acceptance, the next problem management/administration of the SL space. Is that it?
Profesora Farigoule: Marc, our "network acceptable use policy" doesnt cover a lot of behaviors that are possible in SL :)
Firery Broome: Do the admins ever look at [students'] facebook accounts?
Olivia Hotshot: [administrators] must have a deep understanding of the way SL functions - land management - multi-media, updates, etc
Marty Snowpaw: the early adopters have to be the advocates for change
Grinn Pidgeon: should we introduce ourselves?
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: please
Grinn Pidgeon: Barbara Pittman, Cuyahoga Community College, Cleveland, Ohio
Margaret Michalski: Margaret, University of Illinois at Chicago- Research information specialist
Zotarah Shepherd: Go for it Iggy
Birdie Newcomb: Birdie Newborn, now launching College Editions.
Kavon Zenovka: Kae from Front Range in Colorado
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Joe Essid, University of Richmond Writing Center
CathyWyo1 Haystack: Cathy Anderson SDBoard of Regents
Olivia Hotshot: Ann Steckel, Cal State Chico, Tech Consultant
Zotarah Shepherd: I am a MA in Education (technology and psychology) student at Sonoma State University in northern California working an a curriculum project: Teaching and Learning Life-Skills in Second Life
Profesora Farigoule: LC Weaverling - Delaware Tech, Newark Delaware, Arch Engineering & Design
Teachergirl Razor: Teachergirl Faculty in Information and Media Studies, the University of Western Ontari0o Canada
Alixis Atlass: Alixis from Columbia University
Talus Nemeth: jason shipley - freelance developer/designer, Chicago.
Marty Snowpaw: Origins Media
Fred Brecher: Fred Hagemeister, University of Richmond, Center for Teaching, Learning, & Tech
George Linden: Sorry for my delay, been multitasking also ㋡ nice to meet you, JeanClaude
Panacea Luminos: Christina Galanis, Exec Director, Southern Tier Health LinkNY
Yuco Winslet: Fayetteville State University, first time here. Hey everybody!
JeanClaude Vollmar: I'm JC (Jeff Le Blanc in RL). I'm from the University of Northwestern Ohio and am their VP for IT
Olivia Hotshot: welcome Yuco
Jonathon Dunn: Deke Kassabian, University of Pennsylvania
Yuco Winslet: Thanks Olivia.
Olivia Hotshot: =)
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: more intros?
Alixis Atlass: Also, I'm masters student at Teachers College
Prospero Linden: Rob Knop, server release manager for Linden Lab, itinerant astronomer and primary orator for "Dr. Knop Talks Astronomy"
hobbs Constantine: Heather Dodds, Science Program Community Facilitator, Western Governors Uni
George Linden: George Scobie/Linden, edu strategy team, Linden Lab
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: going once....
Oronoque Westland: Roberta Kilkenny, Hunter College, New York
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: twice....(says the faux AJ)
JeanClaude Vollmar: Nice to meet you too George.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: and three times!
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: To everyone in the auditorium, come on down
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: the table will grow to accommodate you
Olivia Hotshot: bet Ed Mc Mahon always wanted to take over, too =)
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: a few announcements first
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: These meetings are made possible by the College of Humanities and Social Sciences at Montclair State University. We meet here each week at 2:30pm SLT for an hour. Sometimes we have a topic, sometimes its an open forum.
Jango Carlucci: Ron Ganis, DelTech, student AET and CET
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Our topic today is administration in SL
Teachergirl Razor: and iggy is great
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: This is a public meeting, so we do keep a transcript of what is said in local chat.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: LOL thanks...a great B.S.er
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: For a copy of older transcripts, please visit http://sler-transcripts.wikispaces.com and for more recent transcripts, please visit http://homepage.mac.com/jessid/slroundtable/
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: For information on FUTURE MEETINGS, there is a notecard giver on the West wall of the Amphitheater.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: The SL Education Roundtable meeting happens each week, but we are looking to develop a community of educators from around the world with a variety of thoughts, needs, and ideas.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Please join the SL EDUCATION ROUNDTABLE group. If you have problems finding it in search, just outside this amphitheater you will see several displays. By clicking the appropriate one you can join the group.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: As the group grows, there will be announcements and such that will be exclusive to the group. I'm also open for ideas of what can bring value to the group.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Join us on FACEBOOK: http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=44078263753&ref=share
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Thanks to Olivia Hotshot for putting together a Flickr group for the SLER. I encourage everyone to join the group and to take pictures from our meeting and add them to the group. Its a great way to show, and grow, our community.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Finally, if you have Mystitool on, or other similar tool, please put it to sleep or detach it for now. :-) It tends to lag things.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: there you have it
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: now on to our topic
Margaret Michalski: I see it pays to be a transcriber : )
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: if the thunderstorms don't knock me offline
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: :)
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Administration is a big topic
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: I'm pleased that Fred from Richmond is here tonight
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: because he's on the other side of the desk
Fred Brecher: Thanks
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: in terms of supporting faculty
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: and their team does great work
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: for others here....what has worked for administering SL?
Margaret Michalski: When we are talking administrative are we referring to the top people at our institutions that refuse to accept SL?
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: well, Margaret, that is one issue on the table...what do you need in terms of admin you are not getting?
Jonathon Dunn: or do we mean controlling access, scheduling, accommodating requests for new builds, etc.
Marc Rexen: Not at our institution...support goes to the top.
CathyWyo1 Haystack: My question ....does any college have policies and procedures for managing SL
CathyWyo1 Haystack: and conduct
Marc Rexen: ...what Jonathon said.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Jonathon, I think AJ wanted to discuss that issue, yes
Jonathon Dunn: I'd be glad to have that problem :)
Profesora Farigoule: we have none- but we are still so far in exploratory phase...
JeanClaude Vollmar: Along with Cathy's, I'm wondering about the covenants, some use, some don't. Are they of any value?
Margaret Michalski: My institution still sees SL as a game
Jonathon Dunn: At Penn, where I have done our initial build, I don't yet hear much call for involvement. Maybe that'll swoon change.
Prospero Linden is one of those hippie types who would think that the less the administration knew or cared about SL, the better... because once they know, they're probably going to want to become all over-legislative about it.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: @ Richmond, Cathy, the only admin issue I faced as a faculty member was installing the client in imaged labs. We could not b/c of the frequency of updates
Marc Rexen: 1 on 1 training by another Faculty that is also within a core Technology support group....with on-going support as needed.
Margaret Michalski: When I tell them I am doing my dissertation on SL everyone gives me an odd look
Prospero Linden: Things that administration pays attention to seem to be things that end up with lots of strings and rules attached.
CathyWyo1 Haystack: they control the purse strings
Profesora Farigoule: is thinking Prospero can be very right at times :D
Jonathon Dunn: Yes Prospero, but yes Cathy :)
Oronoque Westland: my institution is concerned about what their liability is since the institution would "own" the SIM, and not the educators who actually would use it
Panacea Luminos: We are not a college, but have worked up P&P's based on experiences to date
Olivia Hotshot: money is so tight here - every move we make must be effective - well thought - and supported by the administration for continued funding
Marc Rexen: They don't want to end up in the local newspaper without "a rule having been broken," Prospero.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: @ Prospero...I'm more of a punk than hippie, but I agree...basically I want faculty to be free to do what they wish. But then SL involves a level of tech support that requires compromise
Profesora Farigoule: and most of us are in, and will be in tight tight budgets in near future
CathyWyo1 Haystack: Is it better to say you are responsible for your activities
CathyWyo1 Haystack: and do a waiver
Marc Rexen: 1 on 1, by Faculty, to Faculty, with Faculty "in control," has been enough "policy and procedure" for us.
CathyWyo1 Haystack: then regulate and miss something and leave the door open for liablity
Profesora Farigoule: I am going to have all my students sign an acknowledgement ..
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: still, there's an issue when a school owns an island or other real estate
Alixis Atlass: I'd be curious to know how some of your schools are using SL
Profesora Farigoule: that our Student Policy guidelines apply to SL behavior during teaching times as well
Firery Broome: Do you have a flat web policy? that applies here as well.
Nemo Carrasco: Mine has barely a website
Teachergirl Razor: mine uses it
Margaret Michalski: I will be teaching medical students communication skills
Fred Brecher: My staff is still gearing up while there are many other technologies we administer.
Marc Rexen: Sheesh, do you have them sign one for the Course Management System? We have a campus "acceptable use policy," that covers pretty much everything.
Teachergirl Razor: \i will be teaching two courses inworld in the fall
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: @Alixis...it's a good Q but I'd like to know what sort of administrative policies influence HOW we use SL
Profesora Farigoule: Marc, our "network acceptable use policy" doesnt cover a lot of behaviors that are possible in SL :)
Teachergirl Razor: Our university Code of Conduct applies in SL is that what you meant Iggy
CathyWyo1 Haystack: yes our learning management system policies would not govern sl
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: We had, the first time I taught with SL, our campus police detective who specializes in white-collar crime come to class....what a mistake :)
Margaret Michalski: Communication is something they approved because it involves regular conversation
Teachergirl Razor: Our standard computer use policies apply
CathyWyo1 Haystack: something to consider
Margaret Michalski: I don't know how well it would go with others
Jonathon Dunn: We have a University Communications group that thinks about how our University presents itself on the web. But doesn't manage all content. I could see that concept applying to other media. Video. Virtual Worlds.
Margaret Michalski: the main problem is funding
Olivia Hotshot: once administration sees a positive use for SL or other virtual worlds - outside of classrooms - my prediction it will change how we use it here - perhaps more like a business model
Profesora Farigoule: just for example: wearing and discharging weapons during class ;)
Viv Trafalgar: @Iggy - I'd love to see that transcript
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: she came to discuss the dangers of revealing personal info...and the students all knew that stuff already. She and I felt the fool :)
Prospero Linden: Were school administrators suspicious of the web in the early 1990's?
Marc Rexen: Talking...lead to a proposal for Role Play to teach Health Care professionals on "How to handle recalcitrant children," adjusted to use timy's...rather than kids...so that if pictures got out, it would be cuddly bears talking to adults.
Margaret Michalski: The funny thing is that they are pushing online learning but at the same time are against SL
Firery Broome: How about building and scripting a weapon as a class project
Margaret Michalski: I don't understand why that is
Prospero Linden: Margaret : that's because "online learning" has reached the broadly-accepted-buzzword stage
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: so several of you make students sign waivers?
Teachergirl Razor: In my previous class our UT security administrator came to talk about the policies
CathyWyo1 Haystack: do we establish policies or guidelines on anything outside of our universtiy sites..do universities take any responsibility
Profesora Farigoule: Fiery - i personally dont see that as a problem, but I *do* see how others could...
Jango Carlucci: i find building to be a good view for houses
Prospero Linden: It's all part of "nobody got fired for choosing IBM" -- you go with what everybody is doing, not with what is necessarily creative or has high potential
CathyWyo1 Haystack: for a student who is not on campus?
Profesora Farigoule: and am aware of my role as a first adopter
Olivia Hotshot: distance learning has moved from being a "niche" and is now "Skyped" into the mainstream
Margaret Michalski: One admi told me that they are concerned about students doing something they should no[t on] school time
Teachergirl Razor: Cathy all our students are required to adhere to university policies whether on or off campus
Profesora Farigoule: yes, Margaret, that is a concern where I teach as well
Margaret Michalski: I tried to explain the concept of alts but that did not work well
CathyWyo1 Haystack: yes because we invited them here for the first time do we have any responsibility out of school time
Jonathon Dunn: But Margaret, that concern exists with or without SL
Profesora Farigoule: however..
Nemo Carrasco: My college, for example, requires you to go to the campus for any test results
Profesora Farigoule: how much control do we really have in any other teaching setting.
Olivia Hotshot: students do things they shouldn't in ftf schools - why worry just about SL ? more press maybe?
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: okay, so no special reqs beyond your standard use policies, then
Profesora Farigoule: with IMs cells twitter etc
Marc Rexen: Nope.
Prospero Linden: too much concern about what students "should" be doing is part of the problem IMHO, but then again, I'm a hippie
Teachergirl Razor: hahahaha Prospero me too
CathyWyo1 Haystack: Prospero I agree. but
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: let's turn to anyone using SL in labs...how has that worked, in terms of administering SL?
Marty Snowpaw: and me
Margaret Michalski: Maybe admins just don't know enough about SL to see the plus side
Profesora Farigoule: i think admin is "stuck" in 19th cen view , that "control" of classroom is what we seek
Jonathon Dunn: Ideally, AUPs could evolve to acknowledge SL (virt worlds) .. and twiiter and facebook and more
CathyWyo1 Haystack: academics we leave no stone unturned!
Teachergirl Razor: but liability is still an issue for admins I was one for 15 years
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: b/c it's harder to control what a student does on his/her machine than in a lab/classroom
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: where the school owns the hardware
Margaret Michalski: Good point Iggy!
Profesora Farigoule: @Iggy - absolutely , we dont :control" that , either
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Richmond does not use bandwidth filters or nannyware
Prospero Linden: It's not admin, it's society. It's the fact that scandals sell. It's the fact that it's easy to make something sound like a scandal. So, there is pressure to make things look like how they have always looked, so that people will recognize them and think, OK, nothing weird here.
CathyWyo1 Haystack: parents, media, etc. expect a university to anticipate problems
Prospero Linden: It's the fact that we have to fear fear itself, ultimately :)
Marc Rexen: These hint at the group tools that seem to be needed for SL.
Jango Carlucci: up to the student to be responsible
Nemo Carrasco: I thought it was going to be different in at the application test, since they told me to check out a website for the results. Instead the result just mentioned that I must go the faculty to check them, but I can't go
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Our problems with admin in the labs have been technical, not moral
Prospero Linden: Yeah, alas, SL has serious technical demands.
Profesora Farigoule: yes
Marc Rexen: Agreed.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: we developed a compromise--putting the latest client version in my public outbox on Netfiles
Marty Snowpaw: The schools and and to come to understand that they are irrelevant
Profesora Farigoule: espec with multiuser networks and firewalls. although I know those are getting better
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: so students could get the latest version as needed
CathyWyo1 Haystack: education will be flat
Profesora Farigoule: good idea Iggy
CathyWyo1 Haystack: soon
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: you could also drop it into Blackboard
Marty Snowpaw: education will be left behind
Fred Brecher: Yet, they are installing it every time.
Teachergirl Razor: yes Iggy
Birdie Newcomb: How do you do that?
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: that way, students can install as needed...was not bad
Margaret Michalski: Admins, forget that at a Univ level students should be responsible
Profesora Farigoule: education is already behind , imho
JeanClaude Vollmar: We push it out to the client systems in the labs and at desks using SMS
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: we only update over images JeanClaude over the summer
JeanClaude Vollmar: Ah, yes.
CathyWyo1 Haystack: the IN side higher ed article on tuning universities demonstrates that
Marty Snowpaw: Basal text publishers are going bankrupt
Prospero Linden: Teachers want to be creative and forward-thinking, by and large, I think. Even lots of individual admins do. But societal pressures, the fear of the screaming parent or the misinformed newspaper article, undercut all that... never mind money :)
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: so no way to push updates for apps out as needed, as we do for Windows OS or Office
Marty Snowpaw: the old model will not work
CathyWyo1 Haystack: sl makes education accessible on a global playing field
CathyWyo1 Haystack: yes propsero
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: @ Prospero...that is where we have to lead. But faculty and administrators have to talk first
Firery Broome: Do the admins ever look at their facebook accounts?
Marty Snowpaw: and all they will be left with are their rules and no students
Profesora Farigoule: or in K-12 environment, concerns about "accountability"
Prospero Linden is against accountability. Well, not really... but I'm against a lot of the stupid junk that is done in the name of accountability.
CathyWyo1 Haystack: yes the spellings commission
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: after bringing in the detective (a good friend) at the suggestion of our admins, we all found it not needed the next time I taught with SL
Marc Rexen: So...SL has been used by educators for how many years? And can anyone name a screaming story or exemplar of a student issue?
Margaret Michalski: @ Firery, lately my institution is forming groups in facebook and requesting everyone to join. So, yes!
Olivia Hotshot: "Good" AUPs are written to be "grey" to some point so that emerging technologies are included
Jonathon Dunn: Much of this discussion seems to be resistance to SL rather than admin of SL.
JeanClaude Vollmar: @Fiery, that's a good point. I always crack up when I look at the pics of our "fans" on our Facebook page.
Jonathon Dunn: @olivia, yes
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: how many of you have liaisons who help faculty with technical issues for new apps? With pedagogy?
JeanClaude Vollmar: The admins would fall on the floor if the saw some of them.
Olivia Hotshot: i am one Iggy
Margaret Michalski: @ Johanthon, but admins have final say so for everything
Kavon Zenovka: I am one.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: that's been a great way to build bridges
Raine Whitman: I am one also
Profesora Farigoule: WE do, and they (2) are working with me to work out some support systems
Grinn Pidgeon: me. too
Talus Nemeth: same here
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: b/c as an "early adopter" I can say we get crazy ideas
Jonathon Dunn: So the first problem is acceptance, the next problem management/administration of the SL space. Is that it?
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: what do the liaisons most need to do their jobs well, re: SL?
Profesora Farigoule: other than policy, the real "admin" help will come from support staff not actual administrators
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Jonathon, for one or two faculty using SL, I'd reverse that
Teachergirl Razor: Iggy we have two groups of people and I work with both of them one is the Teaching Support Centre and the other is the
Instructional Technology Resource Centre they run our island here
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: figure out how/why then start small--acceptance will follow
Olivia Hotshot: Iggy - they must have a deep understanding of the way SL functions - land management - multi-media, updates, etc
Jonathon Dunn: A few faculty who are ready and just want specific things in the SL spaces available to them. Right?
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: @ Olivia...very true. We learned that the hard way
Profesora Farigoule: yes Olivia ... I second and third that comment
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Remember that Linden Lab offers classroom space to educators for a semester, if you school is not ready to purchase land
Profesora Farigoule: that is why we are working hard to learn first ...
Margaret Michalski: One question I get from admin is "Who is going to building everything"
Jonathon Dunn: I think I'll disagree with Olivia, just to be contrary :)
Profesora Farigoule: haha
Marty Snowpaw: the early adopters have to be the advocates for change
Kavon Zenovka: I know the faculty and know what new app I can show to who - it's like a tech matchmaker
CathyWyo1 Haystack: and what needs to be built
Olivia Hotshot: know what needs to be locked down versus open - have an understanding of "backing" up items, and the ramifications of actions
Jonathon Dunn: In my "day job" I hide the complexity of many technologies to make them usable by the masses.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: @Kavon, I love that metaphor--matchmaker
Profesora Farigoule: .... let the users do it , ;) .... or let those who want to do it do it
Olivia Hotshot: laughing at Jonathon (or is it with)
Oronoque Westland: @ the Lindens...is the land program still taking applications?
Jango Carlucci: building things can be hard in the beginning but once you get use to it, ur still learning stuff
Kavon Zenovka: one instructor can go all the way with SL - the other you just get them to use the avatar appearance function
Marty Snowpaw: More work has to be done to get across the business realities
Profesora Farigoule: makes a note to invite Olivia to tea for LONG discussion LOL
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: from the administrative perspective...here's a Q
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: What do faculty new to SL most often do WRONG?
Marty Snowpaw: of preparing students for yesterdays world
Olivia Hotshot accepts tea invitations and brings own cup
George Linden: Campus SL Oronoque? I am not sure, I think that program has tapered off
Kavon Zenovka: how new?
Profesora Farigoule: Iggy = sit students in a room and stream text at them
hobbs Constantine: replicate traditional classroom
Profesora Farigoule: and think that is teachin :)
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: LOL
Kavon Zenovka: @Profesora - yes
CathyWyo1 Haystack: yes ..
CathyWyo1 Haystack: lecture
CathyWyo1 Haystack: in sl
Margaret Michalski: @ Iggy, I think everyone thinks everything is quick and easy. but not necessarily true
Nemo Carrasco: As long as my college administration cares, computers are just fancy typewriters
Kavon Zenovka: don't move around - no social presence - no roundtable discussion
Olivia Hotshot: and students who sit there and think that's "learnin'"
Profesora Farigoule: lmao @ nemo
Kavon Zenovka: can talk and read local chat
CathyWyo1 Haystack: or stupid
CathyWyo1 Haystack: why am I here
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: wow...so no exploring beyond your campus???
Kavon Zenovka: *can't talk and read local chat - have to scroll back
Nemo Carrasco: Me, Ignatius? No
Nemo Carrasco: Though we have three campuses on different cities
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: nor I, Nemo
Profesora Farigoule: we have four Nemo :)
Prospero Linden: Ignatius : this is not internal info, as I haven't heard it there, but I thought I've heard here or somewhere that there are schools that want to *make sure* that student accounts *can not* get to places other than the school islands in SL
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: I wonder too...what are the administrative issues specific to non-residential campuses?
Margaret Michalski: There are a good amount of projects in SL but some refuse to see it.
Kavon Zenovka: reading a live blog and teaching is going to be skill that distinguishes some instructors whether in SL or in the classroom
Profesora Farigoule: wow Prospero... that sounds very short sighted
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: @Prospero--sounds like a "behind the firewall" opportunity for LL
Nemo Carrasco: I study at the Universidad Central de Venezuela, by the way.
Teachergirl Razor: Profesora I agree
Marty Snowpaw: good point Kavon
Profesora Farigoule: what would I do If I cant take my students to museums, Rome, Paris, etc to "study" in SL ?
Margaret Michalski: some admins get turned off by odd looking avatars or improperly dresses avatars
Marc Rexen: ...the group tools need Prospero...not so important for adults...critically important for kids.
Kavon Zenovka: @Prospero - community & economy is why some of my instructors come into SL
Prospero Linden: Yeah... but think of it from the point of view of a school's lawyer. A lawyer's job is to sit around and think of worst-case scenarios. You want to have maximum control and minimum exposure so that parents can't say "you showed my kid how to get to BDSM Island" or some such
Olivia Hotshot gags at the thought of being locked on an island
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: @ Margaret..that thread on professional dress is going on at SLED now
Oronoque Westland: oooops....hope my Admin doesn't see me tonight
Prospero Linden: IT misses a lot of the point of SL, but I know there are folks who really want to limit "their" accounts to their own islands
CathyWyo1 Haystack: yes olivia
Profesora Farigoule: yes Margaret they do, that is why I've learned to dress very conservatively ...
Profesora Farigoule: and let my other AV have the fun
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: heehee O...you are a bird of many colors...very formal
CathyWyo1 Haystack: what fun would that be and there are a lot of fun things in SL
Olivia Hotshot: oddly enough last week's conversation was about students, and people wondered why there was no longevity of interaction - that's because they all reinvent and go elsewhere
Birdie Newcomb: closed islands are the norm on the teen Grid
Birdie Newcomb: It's a pain
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: what can SL-savvy admins do to educate their superiors?
Oronoque Westland: @Iggy...birds of a feather we are
Jonathon Dunn smiles @profesora
Marc Rexen: There also going to be a need to restrict IM's, etc., so a teacher can say only her kids can IM each other, not strangers.
Jonathon Dunn: @Marc, you have that same restrictions on email?
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: @Marc...you have teachers WANTING that??
Kavon Zenovka: @iggy - I wish I knew - more exposure or less exposure until it's accepted?
Prospero Linden: I mean, let's bear in mind that a lawsuit is going on against a school administration for strip-searching a student because she was accused by a dubious source of having prescription-strength ibuprofen. Our society has gone a little nuts when it comes to "protecting children", much to the harm of said children.
Oronoque Westland: in the K-12 world there are concerns about field trips in the physical world...I imagine that concern is reflected in SL ten fold
Marc Rexen: For kids, yes we did.
Profesora Farigoule: @marc - they could be restricted to group IMS it that is an issue, but for adults, I can't see why that is a problem
Olivia Hotshot: @Marc - a point - distance students - never meeting in RL - who meet in SL - aren't they truly strangers? and isn't this one of the best reasons to use SL? create things not possible in rl?
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: @Oronoque, my wife has to get signed waivers for the kids to go to the middle school next door...but most college students are 18 or older
Profesora Farigoule: yes Olivia... and "share" activities
CathyWyo1 Haystack: I think that a university uses the quick guide for sl about life in sl
Marc Rexen: Adults shouldn't be the concern...adults, at Colleges can go out and get into enough trouble in RL...nobody is worried about them on-line.
CathyWyo1 Haystack: and they do an orientation to their island and student conduct
Olivia Hotshot: indeed @Profesora Farigoule
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: yes...I'd like us to turn to what works well
CathyWyo1 Haystack: and that's that
Marc Rexen: Kids, whole different animal.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: what successes do we have to share around the table on this topic?
Profesora Farigoule: @marc, ... only their chief legal counsel lol
Olivia Hotshot pokes Iggy to read an IM
Teachergirl Razor: @marc we have the problem in university I tried to jam the signals but was told I could not without affecting more than my classroom
Profesora Farigoule: our admin has supported a new training course for SL...
CathyWyo1 Haystack: if the student is underage the parents sign consent
Marc Rexen: ...again, SL has been doing Education for years...I'd love to hear a screaming story of woe?
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Richmond seems to be developing a good system for talking about how we use the island
Profesora Farigoule: but it just got chopped in our budget cuts
Profesora Farigoule: maybe in the fall, not the summer as originally planned
CathyWyo1 Haystack: the universities probably offer alternative classes that are not SL
Marty Snowpaw: aren't we talking about a uniquely US issue
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: @Profesora..ouch. That must hurt.
CathyWyo1 Haystack: probably!
Profesora Farigoule: Marty... possibly...
Marc Rexen: Mid-East as well.
Marty Snowpaw: yes
Marty Snowpaw: but we are going to be left behind
Viv Trafalgar: we are already behind
Marty Snowpaw: if we have not been already
Oronoque Westland: I have colleagues who are reluctant to give assignments that students have to go into the field to complete...I think things are different in places like Schools of Education and Social Work where the students often are being trained for the real world anyway, so field work is seen as "natural"
Marty Snowpaw: because of the conservatisim
Profesora Farigoule: interesting point , Oronque...
Marc Rexen: Agreed.
Margaret Michalski: I am wondering if admins as students would never take a course online, which leads to the resistance to SL
Profesora Farigoule: and interesting comparison to use when discussing SL potitential
Jango Carlucci: field work can be fun if you are really into your major
CathyWyo1 Haystack: the same people who would have an issue with something in sl would have the same issue in RL
Panacea Luminos: we found that though we had a few morals problems, it was viewed as a tool to determine the persons moral/ethical compass in a much quicker way than RL would have
CathyWyo1 Haystack: so you can't guard against everything
Marty Snowpaw: What is the need to be so protective of an 18 year old
Kavon Zenovka: @Oronoque - my school requires an alt assignment instead of SL for all SL projects. We list the alt project last and we consider learning about SL as time on task 4 students. SO the alt project seems a bit longer.
Marty Snowpaw: who can vote and fight for their country but has to stay on a locked down sim???
Profesora Farigoule: Marty... we need to be "protective" of our respect for diversity..
Marc Rexen: Read a Chapter, Watch a Content video, Discuss...and if on-line, use SL to Discuss <-- Mostly what one Masters was.
Profesora Farigoule: in recognizing that diversity includes some very conservative students :)
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: @Marty, there you need faculty with tenure and an interest in SL to lobby the higher ups
Kavon Zenovka: We're the reverse - we let our students out - but lockdown who comes in
CathyWyo1 Haystack: Good point Profesora
Teachergirl Razor: do all of you have counters on your university land I do the idea is to monitor use to decide if it is valuable -- by volume
Prospero Linden: Kavon : that approach makes sense just from the point of view of not being interrupted or disrupted in your own space
Teachergirl Razor: counters sorry
Marty Snowpaw: More has to be made in the way of a business case
Marc Rexen: ..."Then TP out," which is what our Faculty tells students that find themselves in an "uncomfortable situation."
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: for the next part of the meeting, I'd like to know how you folks divide your work
Profesora Farigoule: my rule ... is that if we can't do it on campus in class, it is not acceptable in SL class... not that we make judgment other places
Kavon Zenovka: @Teachergirl - no because I have a running list of who comes in.
Oronoque Westland: my university has Blackboard plug-ins for wikis, blogs and podcasts to safeguard the students and I imagine the university as well
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: in terms of jobs you do vs. what faculty do...
Marty Snowpaw: schools that don't teach 21 st Century skills will fail and die
Margaret Michalski: @ Iggy, we divide it by skills
Kavon Zenovka: Student COde of COnduct applies in Blackbaord discussions as well as SL island
Teachergirl Razor: yes Oro but we here in Canada have to ensure we hold all on our own servers for oblivious international reasons
Nemo Carrasco: Who knows, Marty?
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: yes, as do we...for LSL help, we get support from one of Fred's co-workers
Margaret Michalski: iggy, if one as tech skills then they to tech and others design etc.
Marty Snowpaw: Colleges and Universities are not in the business of Liberal Arts since Eisenhower
Marc Rexen: Probably for surety of identification and control of content, than "protection" (plug-ins). Student content often, usually, can't be made "public."
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: @Marty...no
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Richmond is VERY much a liberal-arts school
Marty Snowpaw: they have to prepare student for careers and life in the 21st Century
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: but that's a different conversation
Profesora Farigoule: and Marty, have good judgment is one essential "skill" for 21st cen career :)
Profesora Farigoule: yes
Nemo Carrasco: I agree with Mr. Onomatopoeia
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: I'm curious about how our technologists here work with other 21st century skills...like Web 2.0 usage in courses
Kavon Zenovka: I manage the land and do all the student orientations - I have 2 instructors who help. One is the presenter trainer and the other is a designer. But both have full-time jobs and only teach adjunct. The 3-4 student workers.
Teachergirl Razor: Do any of you know if the use of Blackboard products on your university servers precludes using moodle with its ease into sl sloodle?
Profesora Farigoule: our systems staff are handling LSL and system issues, with our faculty tech support staff to help users... just like other Apps such as email
Profesora Farigoule: no teachergirl
Oronoque Westland: I have mixed (perhaps contradictory) feelings...for example, this chat is reproduced and archived as are many others in SL....sometimes I say things freely that I may have thought twice about if I remembered the logs...Oro has far more hits in Google than my physical self...I think that admins are right to be concerned about the implications of such a situation for students who we bring in world
Margaret Michalski: I am wondering if admins had a proper orientation they would be more convinced
Teachergirl Razor: I have had to find a server to house moodle not our its
Profesora Farigoule: i think having an admin orientation is a great Idea margaret
Margaret Michalski: For example give them a bunch of landmarks of safe educational environments
Profesora Farigoule: ...makes a note to develop one for her college
Fred Brecher: At Richmond, we have both BB and Moodle but we don't have 2x staff, e.g., we don't have SL in Moodle yet.
Kavon Zenovka: @ Margaret - I had one with a few skeptics ruined the vibe for all
Kavon Zenovka: Now I do one on one to tailor it.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: I agree with Margaret too...be prepared to show good SL edu content
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: and they'll be willing to let students leave the confines of an island
Margaret Michalski: @ Iggy, we have been trying to get moodle up but are having some trouble. So, we are staying with Blackbaord for now.
Teachergirl Razor: agree Iggy, Margaret I did a recent presentation for admin
Firery Broome: I have given a number of admin tours.
Oronoque Westland: I did an orientation for a mixed group of admin and faculty...I focused on the SIMs with educational value (as defined by me)...they all were impressed at the potential
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: So did these ppl change their opinion as a result?
Prospero Linden: (Are there outfits that sell support contracts for moodle that are any good? I.e. so that a school can pay them to solve problems the way that they might get Blackboard to solve problems by paying for that?)
Firery Broome: Take them to good educational sims and most see the value
Kavon Zenovka: There will be a tipping point
Kavon Zenovka: Facebook just happened on my campus
Panacea Luminos: do you do them inworld or watch on a webex type thing?
Oronoque Westland: @Prospero...yes
Profesora Farigoule: i'm considering one for the end of my semester to show off out student "township" we are building
Prospero Linden: Oronoque : I'd love to see your list of where you take people :)
Margaret Michalski: That is why have a separate EDU SL is SO important
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: I got this Q from a group of faculty and admins once..."what is the purpose of SL?"
Margaret Michalski: Everything would be education
Marc Rexen: Agreed Margaret.
Kavon Zenovka: I give twitter 3 months and I'll be able to have mainstream instructors talking about it without laughing
CathyWyo1 Haystack: really? a separate sl edu
Marty Snowpaw: I would like to see that list also
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: I sure wish I'd been to more of these meetings first
Profesora Farigoule: @Panacea... i've given both options at intro orientations
Alixis Atlass: For those who did tours: how did you handle and shocking moments when they landed on Welcome Island? Sometimes you have
naked avatars running about or shouting curses
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: but will SL "just happen" that way?
Nemo Carrasco: I think so, Ignatius
CathyWyo1 Haystack: have them enter at new media consortium
CathyWyo1 Haystack: or virtual ability
Olivia Hotshot: people only appreciate technology when they can find a personal use for it - if they use it begrudgingly, it never "works"
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: @ALixis, bring the new users in through NMC Island
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: not the public orientation islands
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: here's the URL
Alixis Atlass: thnx
Margaret Michalski: @ Olivia, you are absolutely right!
Panacea Luminos: @olivia, early days of introducing the internet was this way
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: http://sl.nmc.org/join/
Firery Broome: Don't take them there [meaning the public islands]
Kavon Zenovka: My socio & anthro instructors actually liked the "experience" of orientation island
Profesora Farigoule: agrees with Fiery...
Firery Broome: take them in via other areas,
Marc Rexen: NMC, or Private, but, you can get a few through the Publics if you know SL and have the right demeanor
Firery Broome: NMC has a good one,
Panacea Luminos: we create the avatar, set the home to ours and then turn it over
Nemo Carrasco: For some odd reason I didn't started on an island
Firery Broome: Ability island
Olivia Hotshot: i introduced email at my school by using the old "you've been hit by a snowball" - suddenly everyone had to learn - there is a snowball here in SL for everyone - i am convinced
Alixis Atlass: Thanks Panacea, I was wondering about that
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: @Fiery, am I following you? What's wrong with starting at NMC?
Kavon Zenovka: @olivia and then you're thinking I've only been telling you about this for _________________.
Firery Broome: No NMC is great!
Teachergirl Razor: O am planning to add Project Berlin when it is finished
Alixis Atlass: whetehr you let them make their own avs, or you have someone make it for them
Profesora Farigoule: I use Muse Islands
Nemo Carrasco: I really don't think SL is for everyone. I am the only person I know from my country interested so far.
Nemo Carrasco: that I know
Kavon Zenovka: @Nemo - maybe not
Alixis Atlass: @Profesora: what's the link to Muse Islands
Profesora Farigoule: Blackboard isn't for everyone either
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: hey, if sociologists want to study after their first hour, send them to the Ahern Welcome Area
Olivia Hotshot: @Kavon - exactly! - my director told me, when you stop talking about it is when the REALLy hard work starts
Panacea Luminos: we start it off with basic mods..tshirt-jeans, then mentor them into customizing
Kavon Zenovka: showing some faculty Forbidden City first
Nemo Carrasco: I mean, I tried to introduce a few friends and none of the saw the potential of it
Marc Rexen: 40 Faculty through the training at ours.
Kavon Zenovka: @Nemo are they using other Web 2.0 apps 4 their classes?
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Can we realistically expect tech liaisons or other Technologists to do that much mentoring?
Nemo Carrasco: Even when the country's main magazine did a great cover about SL, I haven't find yet one group of people of my country, much less of a sim
Teachergirl Razor: I recently introduced two students of Chinese origin to the ibm forbidden city they were amazed
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Maybe for faculty, but faculty should mentor students
Kavon Zenovka: @ Iggy - it's the fun part of my job
Profesora Farigoule: @ Alixix - Search Places - Muse Isle Connection (affiliated with Metanomics)
Marc Rexen: Faculty find each other and talk...
Nemo Carrasco: We use pen and paper and some people use laptops, thank you
Olivia Hotshot: students find each other and talk too
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: @Nemo--I take all notes on paper still-old composition books in fact
Profesora Farigoule: lol Iggy7 - me too
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: :)
Oronoque Westland: Marble composition books?
Olivia Hotshot: like a pair of old shoes, Iggy? =)
Nemo Carrasco: Good to know I am not alone, Iggy!
Prospero Linden: I type so much faster than I write that I prefer to take notes on a computer.
Margaret Michalski: On May 12 we will have a student panel. maybe the students will have ideas on how to convince admins
Prospero Linden: But, when it comes to diagrams....
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: So let's imagine that SL does grow organically on some campuses
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: like Twitter or other apps
Kavon Zenovka: slowly but organically
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: what would be the challenges for admin?
Nemo Carrasco: But yes, since the people are pretty much aware not everyone has access to computers here, I think they don't try to push it
CathyWyo1 Haystack: Actually the economy has convinced some to use sl for meetings instead of travel
Kavon Zenovka: like gradebooks in LMS - that is a student demand thing
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: @cathy-exactly...
Olivia Hotshot: @Margaret - excellent idea
Prospero Linden: Ignatius : if it grew organically, as in students adopting it by themselves without being prompted by class, one challenge for admin might be figuring out that it's not "just a video game"
CathyWyo1 Haystack: and conferences as well
Margaret Michalski: @ Olivia, I will ask them to be prepared for that question.
Profesora Farigoule: yes , recent Virtual Worlds conference was a biggie for my admins
Kavon Zenovka: @ Prospero - that's admins only point of reference for what they see
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: growth like this does occur..I'm using iMovie with students..Every group has at least one who has made videos already
CathyWyo1 Haystack: Garnet now has a process to get people in and oriented in1/2 an hour!
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: most of them are first/second years
CathyWyo1 Haystack: Gartner
Profesora Farigoule: it was a "real" thing happening in SL ... the first that made sense to them
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Cathy, do you have a URL for that?
CathyWyo1 Haystack: let me do a quick search
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: thanks
Prospero Linden: If you have an administrator interested at all in astronomy, get them to come to "Dr. Knop Talks Astronomy" :D
CathyWyo1 Haystack: if not there was an article
Prospero Linden is being shameless
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: folks, we are nearly at our end time
Profesora Farigoule: wow
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: I'll stick around for a while
Prospero Linden: Lu Swansong -- mike is open
Teachergirl Razor: /smiling at Propsero
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: next week...the topic is...DRUM ROLL PLEASE
Margaret Michalski: Another hour gone!
Prospero Linden: /drumruoll
CathyWyo1 Haystack: They twitter haha
CathyWyo1 Haystack: so that's how I found them
Olivia Hotshot: Dr Knop is a great forum - i went - understood zero - but enjoyed it =)
Teachergirl Razor: Iggy you have been great!!!
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Educators react to the new situation re: adult content and zoning
Prospero Linden is sad that Olivia understood zero
Kavon Zenovka: @ Cathy -Is it Gartner or Gronstadt? cause I think you sent it to me.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia tips hat
Viv Trafalgar: Thank you Iggy
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: thanks to all of YOU
George Linden: Looking forward to next week, all X)
Profesora Farigoule: btw Iggy ... just a kudos for the transcribing... I really *needed* the one from last week :)
Alixis Atlass: thanks Ig
Zotarah Shepherd: Thank you Iggy
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Hope AJ is okay!
Olivia Hotshot: me too Prospero - astronomy and black holes are not my specialty
Margaret Michalski: Thanks iggy for taking the lead.
CathyWyo1 Haystack: thanks Kavon you are right
Kavon Zenovka: bye everyone!
Margaret Michalski: Your great!
Fred Brecher: Thanks Iggy.
Jonathon Dunn: @prospero: about how many sims exist and about how many colleges/univs in SL (factoids for VIPs) ?
Profesora Farigoule: the only black holes I have are in my socks ;)
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: bye Kavon
Nemo Carrasco: Take care, Kavon!
Kavon Zenovka: Bye everyone!
Olivia Hotshot: chuckling
Prospero Linden: I'm gonna head out -- have fun everybody
George Linden: Cathy, I'd love to see that orientation <30min link too if it's possible!! :D
Teachergirl Razor: I truly appreciate all the transcripts you provide Iggy
Olivia Hotshot: bye Everyone!
Zotarah Shepherd grins
Margaret Michalski: Thanks everyone for coming
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: my pleasure
Nemo Carrasco: Take care, Olivia and Prospero!
Viv Trafalgar: me as well please Cathy
Olivia Hotshot: yes, ty Iggy - great job today
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: I love doing the transcripts b/c I get all the points I missed
Olivia Hotshot: bye nemo!
Alixis Atlass: where do i go to join this group?
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: I'll invite you now, Alixis
Margaret Michalski: See you all next week!
JeanClaude Vollmar: See you all later!
George Linden: Take care, all
Jonathon Dunn: bye
Alixis Atlass: and where will I find the transcript? thanks
Margaret Michalski: if not sooner : )
Nemo Carrasco: Could you send me an invitation as well?
Zotarah Shepherd: I reread the chat logs Iggy. Yes interesting.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: The transcript will be online soon at this URL:
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: http://homepage.mac.com/jessid/slroundtable/
Panacea Luminos: bye everyone, thanks for this forum