Transcript of March 31, 2009 Second Life Roundtable Discussion.
Topic: Virtual Worlds for Hybrid and Online Learning. Special guests: Brenda Boyd (SL: Stargazer Blazer), Ellen Marie Murphy (SL: Elani Matova), Jane Wilde (SL: Esme Qunhua), and Sharon Collingwood (SL: Ellie Brewster).
Photos Courtesy of Margaret Michalski & Olivia Hotshot (visit Oliva's blog and Flickr photostream). She did such a great job I just have to include a bunch from this event.
Iggy's Notes: Send corrections to iggyo -at- mac -dot- com. Many thanks to Margaret Michalski, who kept the transcript for me! And a whine...I wish I'd been at this meeting. My last group of students adapted very well to SL, so I disagree with many of the comments below about student resistance. I had encountered that in two earlier classes, but by preparing my last class well, and making their work part of my own research (and telling them) they really engaged. I'll repeat that experiment this fall.
Links Mentioned:
AJ Brooks: Hi everyone, and welcome to this weeks SL Education Roundtable.
AJ Brooks: These meetings are made possible by the College of Humanities and Social Sciences at Montclair State University. We meet here each week at 2:30pm SLT for an hour. Sometimes we have a topic, sometimes its an open forum.
Prospero Linden is multitasking, apologizes for inattention
AJ Brooks: Today's meeting topic is Virtual Worlds for Hybrid and Online Learning and our special guests are Brenda Boyd (SL: Stargazer Blazer), Ellen Marie Murphy (SL: Elani Matova), Jane Wilde (SL: Esme Qunhua), and Sharon Collingwood (SL: Ellie Brewster).
Farzaneh Eel: thanks
AJ Brooks: This is a public meeting, so we do keep a transcript of what is said in local chat. For a copy of older transcripts, please visit http://sler-transcripts.wikispaces.com and for more recent transcripts, please visit http://homepage.mac.com/jessid/slroundtable/
AJ Brooks: For information on FUTURE MEETINGS, there is a notecard giver on the West wall of the Amphitheater.
AJ Brooks: The SL Education Roundtable meeting happens each week, but we are looking to develop a community of educators from around the world with a variety of thoughts, needs, and ideas.
Prospero Linden is guessing that Stargazer Blazer is interested in astronomy :) Wonders if he's familiar with MICA...
AJ Brooks: Please join the SL EDUCATION ROUNDTABLE group. If you have problems finding it in search, just outside this amphitheater you will see several displays. By clicking the appropriate one you can join the group.
AJ Brooks: As the group grows, there will be announcements and such that will be exclusive to the group. I'm also open for ideas of what can bring value to the group.
Stargazer Blazer: Sorry, Prospero... all about the Lillies : )
AJ Brooks: Join us on FACEBOOK: http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=44078263753&ref=share
AJ Brooks: Thanks to Olivia Hotshot for putting together a Flickr group for the SLER. I encourage everyone to join the group and to take pictures from our meeting and add them to the group. Its a great way to show, and grow, our community.
Pathfinder Linden: heya Prospero!
Prospero Linden waves to Pathfinder
AJ Brooks: Later on this year we will be having a roundtable that will focus on students. Margaret Michalski is coordinating that effort and she has asked that if you have anything you would like to ask the students, to please drop her a notecard or IM with your thoughts.
CallieDel Boa: Oh great, I'll note that!
AJ Brooks: Finally, if you have Mystitool on, or other similar tool, please put it to sleep or detach it for now. :-) It tends to lag things.
AJ Brooks: Lets start today as we always do, by introducing ourselves. Please type into local chat your name, where you work, and what you do.
Prospero Linden: students??? What does teaching have to do with _students_?
AJ Brooks: I am AJ Kelton, I'm the Director of Emerging Instructional Technology for the College of Humanities and Social Sciences at Montclair State University and the Coordinator of the Second Life Project for the College of Education and Human Services, also at MSU.. We're located in northern New Jersey, just fourteen miles from midtown Manhattan.
Elani Matova: Ellen Murphy. Director of Instructional Technologies at the Sage College in Albany and Troy New York. Also an instructor.
Margaret Michalski: We are doing a student panel.
MLani Montgomery: Rinda Montgomery Conwell, Assistant Superintendent, an education service agency in Oregon.
Prospero Linden: Rob Knop, server release manager for Linden Lab, also associated with Kira (www.kira.org) and mica (www.mica-vw.org)
Stargazer Blazer: I am an instructional designer at Miami University (in Ohio) .
Grinn Pidgeon: Barbara Pittman, Cuyahoga Community College
Pathfinder Linden: John Lester in RL, leading LL's efforts in Education and Healthcare development. Details at http://pathfinderlinden.com
Margaret Michalski: Margaret, University of Illinois at Chicago, Research Information specialist
JeanClaude Vollmar: I'm JC (Jeff Le Blanc in RL) and work for the University of Northwestern Ohio at their VP for IT.
Teri Boxen: teri lind, master graduate student nursing
Ellie Brewster: Sharon Collingwood, Women's Studies, Ohio State
Profdan Netizen: Dan Holt, Lansing Community College, Lansing, MI, teach fy comp and creative writing, all online this semester. Doing a fy comp class in SL next fall.
Zelq Razorfen: Zach Hoffman, University of Arizona College of Medicine, Director Instructional Technology
Katie Fenstalker: King King, professor of women's studies, University of Maryland, College Park. I do new media research.
Shawnta Clarence: Evalyn Gossett Indiana Univ NW School of Nursing
Talus Nemeth: Jason Shipley - Freelance developer/designer based in Chicago. Focusing on immersive learning.
Weave Oldrich: Ken Weaverling, Director of Systems Administration at Delaware Tech College
Firery Broome: Firery Broome University of Delaware
lizit Cleanslate: Liz Thackray - Teaching Fellow Open University UK and DPhil student University of Sussex
Amanda Endsleigh: Amanda Johnstone, Writing/lit/psychology prof at conestoga college in Ontario designing online courses this summer
Esme Qunhua: Jane Wilde Marlboro College Graduate School VT USA
Marty Snowpaw: Marty Keltz Origins Media Canada
Profesora Farigoule: LC Weaverling- Facutly- Architectural Engineering, Delaware Tech College, Newark , DE - teaching for 1st time in SL this year
Olivia Hotshot: Ann Steckel CSU Chico Tech Consultant
AJ Brooks: who else?
Tuxedo Ninetails: Mex Butler, MITEd candidate at Melburne U, Business Administrator at Australian Vocational Training and Employment Services
AJ Brooks: have all 48 of us chimed in?
Kabbie Broadway: English and new media, north dakota state university
hobbs Constantine: Heather Dodds, Western Governors University, Program Community Facilitator
Zotarah Shepherd: I am a MA in Education (technology and psychology) student at Sonoma State University in northern California working an a curriculum project: Teaching and Learning Life-Skills in Second Life
AJ Brooks: Heather - I was just there yesterday!
Dusty Artaud: Randi Kopp, social media marketing consultant for a children's museum in NJ, USA
CallieDel Boa: Elizabeth Stenger - back in school again and affiliated with the National Association for Computer User Groups and Tulsa High tech
hobbs Constantine: coolage, Salt Lake you mean?
AJ Brooks: yup
Inah Quandry: Carolyn Bitzer Women's Studies Univer of Delaware
AJ Brooks: ok -= who hasn't introduced themselves yet
hobbs Constantine: ah, I'm remote in NY
AJ Brooks: going once
AJ Brooks: going twice
AJ Brooks: good
AJ Brooks: Thanks everyone. One last thing, its really hard for me to respond to IMs while running the meeting. If you IM me, I promise to get back to you before I sign off.
nausica Naimarc: teacher in high school
Theoretical Inkpen: Phd student in Tx
AJ Brooks: So - our topic today is Virtual Worlds and their use in Hybrid and Online learning
AJ Brooks: we have four special guests who have done this and will tell you a little about what they have done
AJ Brooks: but first
AJ Brooks: I'd like to give them a minute to introduce themselves and tell you a little about them.
AJ Brooks: So lets start with Stargazer
AJ Brooks: Brenda?
Farzaneh Eel: sorry - i crashed...
AJ Brooks: I'm thinking Star did also....
Stargazer Blazer: Thanks, AJ. I have developed online courses for the last 10 years in higher education... in SL, I have started a school called Insight Virtual College.
AJ Brooks: ah - ok
Stargazer Blazer: No, just typing in the lag.
AJ Brooks: ok - great
AJ Brooks: Esme?
Esme Qunhua: Hi, As you can see I am Esme Qunhua, in Real Life I am called Jane Wilde. :-) ...
Esme Qunhua: I am on the faculty of a small college in Vermont in the US called Marlboro College Graduate School...
Esme Qunhua: For the Europeans at the table, "college" and "university" are often used interchangeably in the US...
Esme Qunhua: My students are all university graduates seeking an advanced degree in teaching..
Esme Qunhua: I teach face to face, hybrid and fully distance courses. In second life I teach a course called Teaching and Learning in Virtual Worlds...
Esme Qunhua: A PLUG - Registration opens soon, so if you have any interest in taking the course, for credit or not, friend me... I am also a doctoral student in Curriculum and Instruction at the University at Albany in NY. - END-
AJ Brooks: great - thanks
AJ Brooks: Ellie
Stargazer Blazer: I also support faculty in the design and redesign of their courses, face to face, hybrid, and online.
Ellie Brewster: I'm Sharon Collingwood, and I teach Women's Studies at Ohio State University. I also teach French language and literature, and in 2006 I began using Second Life as a language teacher, sending students into Second Life on independent assignments.
Ellie Brewster: In 2007, I proposed a Women's Studies course, and tested it by teaching a pilot course, 1/2 in SL and 1/2 in a traditional classroom setting.
Ellie Brewster: Now I'm teaching a WS distance course, completely in SL. Tonight (shudder) I am starting the largest class I've ever tried, 40 students!
Ellie Brewster: I've been given the hint that if I'm to prove that my course should be taken seriously, I'm going to have to teach a full class in there. Up until now, I've been teaching classes of about 25.
AJ Brooks: so - this size. :-)
Ellie Brewster: So, here we go, feet first. As usual.
Pathfinder Linden: nice
Ellie Brewster: I have decided to try the latest version of Sloodle (0.4) - it's already lightened my load a lot -- but its still too early to tell how it will work with a large class.
Pathfinder Linden: :)
AJ Brooks: gret - excellent
AJ Brooks: And last but not least, Elani
Elani Matova: Ellen Murphy. Director of Instructional Technologies at the Sage College in Albany and Troy New York. Also an instructor both online and f2f, graduate and undergraduate. Last year I developed and taught an interdisciplinary research course for undergraduate students: Real Life applications of SecondLife.
Elani Matova: The course was primarily online
Elani Matova: WE are offering it again this summer.
AJ Brooks: Elani and I just recently worked together on an EDUCAUSE Regional Conference session
AJ Brooks: thanks to my special guests
AJ Brooks: and thanks to everyone who came
CallieDel Boa: Robin there's a seat beside me to my right
AJ Brooks: a great size audience
AJ Brooks: what I asked each of them to do
Robin Mochi: slow rezzing today...:)
AJ Brooks: was to talk for 2-3 minutes about what they have done on the topic
AJ Brooks: we'll go through all four of them and then open it up for conversation
AJ Brooks: questions and comments are encouraged, but please hold them until all four have chatted
AJ Brooks: so we can get to everyone
AJ Brooks: so why don't we start with Elani
Elani Matova: Ok :-)
AJ Brooks: :-)
AJ Brooks: surprise! LOL
Elani Matova: As I mentioned this was an undergraduate course, however the students ranged in age
Elani Matova: None had prior experience with virtual worlds
Elani Matova: We used SecondLife as our classroom
Elani Matova: Students posted pics of their travels and research on flickr
Elani Matova: We met synchronously twice a week for one hour
Elani Matova: in SecondLife
Elani Matova: Students were asked to research how SL was being used in their topic of interest as well as the future use
Elani Matova: I would like to share one experience
AJ Brooks: each of the speaker will get a chance to talk more, as they answer your questions
AJ Brooks: opps - sorry
Elani Matova: No problem :-)
AJ Brooks: can the example hold for a few minutes?
Elani Matova: sure
AJ Brooks: great
AJ Brooks: Ellie, how about you?
Ellie Brewster: Like Elani, my students have used SL for research - gender, identity, women's community -- it has a great deal to offer the women's studies student.
Ellie Brewster: I guess I'd just like to add that I'm very interested in making my classes accessible. I have a grant that allows me to do that with my course next year ( a fulldistance course).
Ellie Brewster: When you start thinking about it, there's a TON of things you can do to make your courses interesting for people with disabilities.
Ellie Brewster: I went to Louise Later's seminar on using a guide dog in Second Life, and it really got my imagination working - Second Life really does have a lot to offer the visually impaired - we can use sound, music, landmark cues...
Ellie Brewster: It is SOO much fun working in here!
Ellie Brewster: and that's about it, really.
AJ Brooks: great
AJ Brooks: Esme?
Esme Qunhua: I want to address 2 points related to our topic 1) how I use SL to deal with my course content. 2) I want to say a word about distance/hybrid learning...
Esme Qunhua: First, SL is a great place to explore my discipline: "Educational Theory and Practice" ...
AJ Brooks: fire away
Esme Qunhua: Most teachers these days claim that they are "social constructivists" in theory. By that I mean they subscribe to some kind of collaborative approach to learning, the building of ideas through communication with others...
Esme Qunhua: What better place to explore and practice that theory than here in Second Life, where teachers, students, students from other universities and experts in the field can meet...
Esme Qunhua: If I want my students to explore construcTIONism (a related but different educational theory) - I help my students use the building tools in sl to construct solutions to problems...
Esme Qunhua: When I want to introduce the concept of communities of practice, and the process of becoming initiated in the language of a particular practice, Second Life offers a world of communities to join and learn from...
Esme Qunhua: Role playing, project based learning and situated learning are all easy to demonstrate and facilitate in SL...
Esme Qunhua: Second, my course is fully on-line but it is not fully synchronous - we don't always work together. We also work in Moodle for discussion and reflection...
Ellie Brewster: Gosh. I wish I'd said that.
AJ Brooks: lol
Esme Qunhua: I think that the proponents of the benefit of asynchronous learning have it only half right...
Esme Qunhua: I love what an asynchronous LMS can offer in terms of thoughtful discussion and the progressive building of ideas. But I value the opportunity to meet with the group simultaneously...
Esme Qunhua: And in my experience, Skype, IM, online white boards do not come close to offering the rich feeling of togetherness and shared experience that SL offers. -END-
AJ Brooks: :-) TY
AJ Brooks: Last, but not least
AJ Brooks: our own Stargazer Blazer - and I say that
AJ Brooks: because Star has been coming to our roundtables
AJ Brooks: since nearly the beginning, if not the VERY beginning
Pathfinder Linden: speaking of teaching the concept of Communities of Practice...Thursday Xu created a 3-d visualization of Wenger's concept of Communities of Practice. might be a helpful resource for you
Esme Qunhua: TY
Stargazer Blazer: :) Thanks, AJ.
CallieDel Boa: Noted :)
Zotarah Shepherd: I would like to see that.
Ellie Brewster: I'd be interested in that too, Path
Stargazer Blazer: I have developed a curriculum for our in-world school with Residents as subject matter experts. We offer a range of courses on how to use SL; we hope to integrate a track for educators to learn to use groups and land effectively.
Pathfinder Linden: i'm not sure if it is still on display. but I found a blog about it here: http://flexiblelearning.wordpress.com/2008/06/07/second-life-3d-models-of-blooms-taxonomy-and-wengers-communities-of-practice/
Ellie Brewster: ty
Stargazer Blazer: It's a cool model, and it's interactive!
Stargazer Blazer: All of our classes use solid instructional design to ensure the students will learn what they set out to learn (which was one reason we started the school). We also offer faculty the opportunity to teach using our campus if they have no support at their schools in RL.
Stargazer Blazer: We are also working with SL Certification Developers to create a curriculum that will lead to certification. We plan to use Moodle and SLoodle to help assess these learners.
Stargazer Blazer: In my RL role at Miami U, some applications faculty are planning for SL include ecological biology and an activity recognizing disabilities in students through role play.
Stargazer Blazer: I have proposed a learning community for next year for our faculty to learn to use SL and to get their projects up and going. I find out soon if it was funded. Miami has 2 islands in SL, one for "front facing" work and a "lab" for faculty to leave a mess with projects. :) (done)
AJ Brooks: Thanks Star, and all the guests. Now, I'd like to open it up for conversation. I know it can be hard to follow sometimes, but lets see if we can allow the flow of topics so we don't' get too much cross over. This is the first time we've done a group of guests this large without it being a panel, so lets see how it works.
AJ Brooks: please also make sure you say to WHOM you are directing your question or thought
Marty Snowpaw: I all sounds like ground breaking work....kudos
Profesora Farigoule: Ellie - what comments/experiences did your students have in womens studies...
Ellie Brewster: I'd like to respond to what Esme said about communities of practice. I think that's one o the most valuable things we do in a WS class
Profesora Farigoule: about the limits in SL on what a woman should look like?
Zelq Razorfen: stargazer, can you talk more about the in-SL curriculum?
Profdan Netizen: Stargazer, is Insight Virtual College affiliated with Miami U?
Prospero Linden: I have a question for all of you -- when you run a class in Second Life, what does it "look like?" That is, how much are you lecturing/discussing, do you use inworld building tools at all, what else do you use, etc?
Profesora Farigoule: or the limits the stores put on what you can get?
AJ Brooks: wowo - great questions!!!!
Ellie Brewster: lot of us talking
AJ Brooks: yes - so lets see if I can mange this a bit
AJ Brooks: Ellien - what did you students say about women's studies?
Elani Matova: Prospero: We met at different locations each time. So, we met in Ancient Rome, and Dafur, etc. I did not lecture. It was questions and answers and exploration.
AJ Brooks: "about the limits in SL on what a woman should look like?"
Profesora Farigoule: or culturally pervasive images in SL
Profesora Farigoule: of women
Profesora Farigoule: in SL culture so far
Ellie Brewster: They do a lot on body image in my WS class, as well as try out different genders, personae -- we also have a class where they roleplay women from other cultures
Margaret Michalski: @ Star- At This weekends VWBP conf a panel mentioned that it is best not to introduce students to SL and Moodle/Slooodle all at once. Do you agree?
Stargazer Blazer: Zelq and Profdan; We have a full curriculum of how to use land, how to build, and we also have scripting classes. We are growing now, and hope to offer Role Play classes again in addition to actual world topics. Insight Virtual College is not affiliated by Miami U; only that I work there in my RL job. :)
Theoretical Inkpen: what recommendations do you have for first time university builders? (this questions is for all who may want to answer)
Oronoque Westland: Curious to know how you would compare the hybrid experience using SL, to the fully online experience. And then for the fully online how you would compare the fully in SL, to SL combined with other online environments.
Prospero Linden: When you teach in SL -- do you use Voice? Or stick with text?
Ellie Brewster: Well, I'll know about Moodle in about three hours - but so far it has worked very well - I linked it to my university's LMS, so it feels seamless. And they enter SL through Sloodle.
AJ Brooks: Theoretical - just a word to plug an upcoming meeting - I'll try and find a date, but we are gong to devote an entire meeting to that
AJ Brooks: I'll post the date of that in a second
CallieDel Boa thinks voice is overrated in teaching, cannot transcribe classes
Profdan Netizen: What LMS does your school use, Ellie?
Theoretical Inkpen: thank you
Ellie Brewster: Desire 2 learn
Esme Qunhua: In response to Prospero, I do very little lecturing. I present articles and such in Moodle and in SL we explore, meet, listen to experts, build
Elani Matova: We use Moodle as are official LMS, and that's where I posted course materials etc, but we used flickr as our discussion board
Zelq Razorfen: to all, do you find teaching to be more effective in sitdown environs like this over mobile "teleport here" now type settings
Robin Mochi: Stargazer, I'm interested in learning more about the learning community you have proposed for faculty...I'm teaching a class now for grad/doctoral education students and allowed faculty who wanted to learn SL to join as participants. We are looking at funding a separate program for faculty along next semester to introduce them to teaching and learning in SL. Is that the same sort of thing you are talking about?
Ellie Brewster: Another thing Moodle/Sloodle does is allow students who cant log on to SL to participate in chat in-world
AJ Brooks: 4/12 is slated to be "Second Life Administrative Best Practices"
Stargazer Blazer: @Margaret: I think that is probably true; information overload is a real possibility... we are thinking of using Moodle/Sloodle for our efforts related to the SL Certification that is gearing up. Those residents will have some SL experience at least.
Esme Qunhua: I can't imagine why not to introduce Moodle and SL at once. Most of our students are quite tech savvy
Elani Matova: Moodle is pretty easy to use for most students
Ellie Brewster: If you are doing blogs or wikis, you're usually using an outside site
Profdan Netizen: Why use Moodle rather than the LMS your campus is using?
Elani Matova: Many of my students were adults with very little computer experience. We used SL Moodle and Flickr
lizit Cleanslate: How experienced are your students as learners?
Stargazer Blazer: @Robin, yes, we have a program at Miami that encourages cross-disciplinary learning communities, so very much along those lines.
Profdan Netizen: We use Angel? Why have students learn a new LMS?
Ellie Brewster: Moodle/Sloodle has all kinds of great tools that connect into SL
Pathfinder Linden: ChatBridge is a neat tool for linking conversations on the web with conversations in SL. http://www.intersectionunlimited.com/ourproducts.html
Esme Qunhua: Why use Moodle? One that is what my campus uses. And two it links to sl.
Robin Mochi: thanks, Stargazer
Margaret Michalski: @Fliie- THe panelist claimed that if a students is against SL then indroducing Moodle/Sloodle would make it worse.
Ellie Brewster: It has a chatroom, student registration, quizzes, and a great presenter that links in web content
Profdan Netizen: From in world, that's cool, Ellie.
Olivia Hotshot: I've never seen a group of students promote an LMS =)
Profdan Netizen: True, but many of our students take more than one online class.
Kavon Zenovka: @Margaret I think it would depend on the students' technology skills
Stargazer Blazer: It is difficult to run a fully online course without an LMS in tandem to SL. Most schools will have one they are already familiar with, and I agree with Ellie that it can be used with SL, the Sloodle tools are great with Moodle.
Profdan Netizen: Having them deal with two LMS's?
AJ Brooks: For those who have done hybrid - meaning not fully online - how long did it take you to get your students working well (enough) in SL?
Esme Qunhua: I don't get the concern about students being against SL. Are they against classrooms? Chalk?
Kavon Zenovka: the students at my college are very different then the panelists but I'm more of a "rip the band-aid off quickly" proponent
Profdan Netizen: They are, Esme!!!
Zelq Razorfen: @star outside of SL, where can one find out more about Insight Virtual College?
AJ Brooks: and did you devote any f2f classtime to the training
Olivia Hotshot: my university can only support one LMS - everything else is free style self support - Moodle keeps it tidy with SL, but it is not the one we currently use
Ellie Brewster: The trick to two LMS's is to link them together. My students go into the University LMS, and click a link at the top of the page. Seems like another area of the site
Profesora Farigoule: my students this term in SL... a few are SL resistant...
Olivia Hotshot: interesting idea Ellie
Esme Qunhua: Profdan yes they are and does that matter. We need to make the experience good. That is our responsibility.
Profesora Farigoule: my guess at the moment, is they are ones who *like* being detached from their classmates
Oronoque Westland: students seem to find it "easier" to say that they are opposed to SL or an LMS, than to say they are opposed to the classroom...I think they assume we will be sympathetic (NOT!)
Profdan Netizen: That makes sense, Ellie, but they still need to deal with two different LMS's if they're taking more than one online class.
AJ Brooks: (BTW - there are 56 people here right now!)
Profesora Farigoule: ... they are finding SL very personal and not in their comfort zone
Margaret Michalski: @ Fllie- I will have to introduce that idea at my institution.
Esme Qunhua: Most students who are against SL 1) have unrealistic expectations of it. That is my responsibility to prepare them for why I use it.
Stargazer Blazer: @ Zelq: We have a website under development for IVC; but it is an in-world school. (http://www.insightvirtualcollege.com)
Elani Matova: My first class meeting was f2f, to get students up to speed. But many did not make the class, and those that did felt it was unnecessary. I found that the lab couldn't support that many students online at one time. They learned by going in-world. I should mention this class was an intensive 3 week course, although their final projects were due a month later. They learned to use all of the tools within a couple of days.
Kavon Zenovka: and you have to ask is it really cognitive overload or just resistance to what they perceive as more work.
Prospero Linden: In my experience, some students are against anything you ask them to do that is more than just sit there and stare while you tell them what's on the test... :)
Zelq Razorfen: the main problem I have experienced in SL (as far as a learning hurdle) is the graphical lag. chasing grey blobs can get tiring ;)
Ellie Brewster: I keep the Moodle LMS very simple - no grades recorded there, just chat rooms and wikis -- private stuff on university LMS, public stuff on Moodle.
CallieDel Boa: I wish my college was in SL I feel too detached to other students and professor, I'm old-school - past experience on campus
Oronoque Westland: as formal online increases in popularity, more and more students take courses from multiple institutions...hence multiple LMS's are being used anyway
Weave Oldrich: Amen PRospero
Zelq Razorfen: @star, right. thanks for the url.
Profesora Farigoule: @Kavon - not cognitive overload - affective overload :) I think
Kavon Zenovka: yes!
Olivia Hotshot: A question to anyone on the panel - for the fully online courses - synchronous or otherwise - how do you handle student authentication if they do not go thru the LMS
Margaret Michalski: @ all panelists- so, it basically it is dependent on an individual students computer skills.
lizit Cleanslate: Do any of you have classes which are all distance students?
Ellie Brewster: me
AJ Brooks: Would the person from WGU IM me, I can't find that in the past chat
lizit Cleanslate: how do you find it compares all distance or mix
Esme Qunhua: All of my students are distance. I never meet them IRL
Elani Matova: Olivia, do you mean authentication to SL?
Stephan Mrigesh: Make School Nice and Boring, Lot's of Discipline, and most of all restrict free thinking, sure to get a population of droids to follow you around
Esme Qunhua: I believe it takes 10 hours to become efficient in SL.
Stephan Mrigesh: Make it an adventure for them, and SL offers all of that
Olivia Hotshot: yes elani - how do you ascertain that the person is the person on the roster ?
Ellie Brewster: I prefer all distance - when I taught a hybrid, it seemed to me that the time spent learning SL was wasted.
Profdan Netizen: How so, Ellie?
Stargazer Blazer: @lizti: all of our students at IVC are distant.
Esme Qunhua: I require my students to spend 2 hours before first class, 3 hour first class two weeks of exploration on own and 10 hours are done.
Ellie Brewster: If you're going to teach in SL, you should jump in. That justifies the time spend teaching them to walk and talk
Kavon Zenovka: @ Olivia work with the online instructor to ensure the amount of anuthentification they want - proctored tests if they want. We've done Antartica, Thailand and Iraq so far.
Oronoque Westland: I'm old enough to remember when you could submit handwritten assignments in K-12, then having to learn to type...there was resistance then too AND TYPING CLASSES
Marc Rexen: We're wrestling with the same question for fully on-line, on whatever interface Olivia...it's not just an SL thing.
Margaret Michalski: As a Masters online student I loved the idea of discussions. In F2F it was just not the same. The instructor almost had to force people to talk.
lizit Cleanslate: do distance students seem to get point of SL more than other students - I am thinking of things like presence and so on
Olivia Hotshot: Marc - exactly - especially since it is now an unfunded fed mandate - i get that question as well.
Elani Matova: Olivia--I guess I don't know any more than when they log into the LMS> They post their SL names in our LMS. And when we meet f2f, in-world, they have to log in as that avatar. Does that make sense?
Ellie Brewster: I think so -- we always have someone nursing a baby in class.
Ellie Brewster: That's cool
Prospero Linden: Oronoque ... yeah. I was bemoaning with another astro professor the other day (which I used to be) that physics grad students think it's unfair when you ask them to do numerical (i.e. programming) projects in a graduate astrophysics course.
Kavon Zenovka: @ Margaret in online graduate seminars online really rocks!
Profesora Farigoule: @ellie- similar point made at an ISTE presentation earlier... using SL has to justify time spent learning it in hybrid application
Birdie Newcomb: typing is still important!
Marc Rexen: Yes...and next accreditation cycle...they may start looking harder.
Olivia Hotshot: Elani - it does - we are questioning the methodology here as well and our response is close to yours
Kavon Zenovka: @ Marc they will.
Esme Qunhua: Lizit, you get the point of sl if you use the tools of sl. There is little point (accept distance) if all we do is lecture, or even have small group discussions
Stargazer Blazer: I have heard that there is more success with fully online classes than with hybrid, is that the experience true within this group?
Ellie Brewster: I think so
Margaret Michalski: This may be a bias on my side but I am here as both an educator & student. If my currently online Blackboard courses were taught in SL it would have been much more effective. The discussions on BB were good but the concept of keeping log of chats is excellent.
Elani Matova: I think so too, because I believe if it is fully online SL becomes more immersive.
Oronoque Westland: @ Prospero --- used to have to do math in our heads too, then learn to use a calculator. There is always resistance to new technology, but you learn or get left behind. As educators we should make the learning as painless as possible.
Prospero Linden: Esme : even if you just discuss, does the "sense of presence" you get in a virtual world add anything in comparison to just doing the conversation on a message board or via Skype? I would guess that it does, because I find going to meetings in SL easier than having avatarless meetings
Esme Qunhua: I was surprised Stargazer to read recently that in a study by Jeremy Kemp that more teachers in SL might be doing hybrid.
Stargazer Blazer: @Margaret; that is a good perspective.
Kavon Zenovka: @Stargazer do you mean fully online classes v. hybrid or Fully onlin classes using SL v. Hybrid classes using SL?
Zelq Razorfen: @all what are some "Must have" tools if one is going to teach in SL?
Stargazer Blazer: @Kavon, the latter.
Profesora Farigoule: @stargazer & esme - some of us do not teach fully online even now... so going hybrid first seems... familiar
Ellie Brewster: Gavin Dudeneys "SpeakEasy" Hud, or something like it
Marc Rexen: In some respect...SL might have an upper hand with it's adult verification, but the results would have to be shared...with the school...which would violate existing LL policy (which is why we need some "special rules" for education...:).
Kimbeau Surveryor: @all. Potentially, the difference between online and hybrid classes is that students can more easily "come out of themselves" when there is no tie-in to rl personality. Has anyone noticed positive or negative results from this?
Stargazer Blazer: @ZElq: a good grasp of using land and groups, those are essential for class management.
Esme Qunhua: @ Prospera, for me it is far better. And great alternative to only meeting asynchronously. I was responding to student resistance to sl - they will only be resistant until they recognize the richness and power of the environment
Profdan Netizen: Have any of you taken an 2d online class and retooled it for teaching in SL?
Kavon Zenovka: Interesting - my co-worker is doing a lit review on the former and is finding a lot of hybrid questions unanswered so I can't imagine what's out there for the latter.
CallieDel Boa: That's what I'm just starting and find it more difficult than learning in SL
Stephan Mrigesh: Do any of the educator's here offer a student lounge/pub on their virtual lands?
Ellie Brewster: I had shy students tell me they've never talked more in a class
Profesora Farigoule: @kimbeau- interesting point - would like to hear about this too :)
Profdan Netizen: I find the same, Ellie, in 2d online classes.
Kimbeau Surveryor: @ellie: Hybrid or online shy students?
Ellie Brewster: My distance course is a retooled course
Margaret Michalski: @ Kimbeau- from my perspective hybrid courses can still make a students more resistant to talk because they know they will see each other f2f. At least that is the way I was.
Stargazer Blazer: Yes, we do, Stephan, at Insight.
Ellie Brewster: Both
Stargazer Blazer: @Kavon; look into Quality Maters.
Stephan Mrigesh: Fantastic Stargazer! (Will be by soon;)
Esme Qunhua: Stephan I had an interesting experience. I offered to build one for my students and they asked why I would do that? I tried to explain the benefit and they said NO we want to know why YOU would build it. They built it.
Profdan Netizen: Ellie, what would you say changed the most from 2d to 3d online class
Oronoque Westland: I have taught teachers to use SL and found that it was more successful when we first sat together in a computer lab. They seem to benefit from that "eye contact." Once they felt a certain comfort level in-world, the lab was no longer seen as a necessary comfort zone.
Ellie Brewster: Both hybrid and online students, in my experience, allow shy students a voice
Stargazer Blazer: We have a beach.
AJ Brooks: lol
Stargazer Blazer: Me too, Ellie.
Marc Rexen: In Ohio...:)
Prospero Linden: Ask anybody who's met me -- I'm shy, retiring, and quiet in real life, but I am able to express myself in Second Life. I can lie more here, too.
CallieDel Boa: Lm's please *giggles
Birdie Newcomb: Good for you
Kimbeau Surveryor: @Ellie: How clearly does everyone know the mapping from rl to sl identities in your classes?
Kavon Zenovka: so you're a textrovert
Stargazer Blazer: The beach is at IVC, hehe. not on Miami's island,
AJ Brooks: A TEXTROVERTT!!!!!!! I LOVE IT!
Stephan Mrigesh: Haha Kavon!
CallieDel Boa: Thanks :))
Amanda Endsleigh: but on the "shy" question -- what about the opposite, I'm very outgoing in rl but very quiet here?
Kimbeau Surveryor: lol@Kavon
Ellie Brewster: The biggest change from f2f to online was their ability to engage with other people in SL One of my students met Simon Walsh, and went around in a wheelchair. Others have talked to gay & lesbian activists.
Prospero Linden isn't really shy and retiring and quiet anywhere....
Amanda Endsleigh: how can that effect our students
Profesora Farigoule: yes - textrovert!!!! met one - married him lol
Margaret Michalski: @ Fllie- I totally agree because that was me. From my fellow students going from online to f2f was difficult but hybrid fit in just right.
nausica Naimarc: Sorry. ..I had to go. Sorry. Bye
Esme Qunhua: One of the best aspects of sl for me is that I have become a better teacher iRL
Kavon Zenovka: @ Amanda - it happens. Not shy in Rl, Not shy in SL, but when I play MMORPGS i'm not chatty.
Kimbeau Surveryor: @esme: why?
Zelq Razorfen: @esme how so?
Esme Qunhua: I lecture less. I employ as best I can some of the opportunities that sl affords.
Oronoque Westland: @Esme...I have found the same thing. I am more reflective about the learning and facilitating now.
Stargazer Blazer: @Esme, I hear that a lot from faculty who begin to teach online. They have to re-examine what they do, and why.
Esme Qunhua: Yes! Oro
Margaret Michalski: @Fsme- Again the bias view. Being a 1/2 student here in SL makes me realize they type of teacher I want to be in the future. If I am lucky enought to get the opportunity.
Oronoque Westland: though the spelling has gotten worse (lol)
AJ Brooks: I agree _ i felt I was more prepared and less of a "sage on the stage" in SL
Zelq Razorfen: so it encourages active learning and transfers out. nice.
Marc Rexen: ...Active Learner classroom...:)
Elani Matova: Ellie, I found the same thing. My students researched topics like religion in SL, activism in SL and even the seedier sides. One student interviewed a prostitute (very interesting interview). IN fact, they documented all the interviews and they were all fascinating. I doubt they would've ever doen those things in FL
Ellie Brewster: Am I the only one who gets the odd feeling of "observing herself" while teaching? SL has greatly changed my teaching style.
Kavon Zenovka: @ Esme & Onronoque - it has made me think how to get the students out of the classroom more & using some very basic augmented reality - tech overlays.
Olivia Hotshot: Have any of you taken students through building exercises to create experiences for other students? Like grad students building for undergrads?
Esme Qunhua: LOL Ellie.
Ellie Brewster: My students write papers, publish them on a wiki, then link them to objects in SL
Oronoque Westland: some may feel "safer" speaking with "others" in-world than in the physical world
Elani Matova: I agree
AJ Brooks: there is no QUIT button in the non-virtual world
Profesora Farigoule: @oronoque - I know I feel a lot safer here - in meeting strangers
Profesora Farigoule: or TP
Zotarah Shepherd: We can be more immediately reflective teaching in SL.
Profesora Farigoule: :)
Stargazer Blazer: @Olivia; we had a class from CSU come, the teacher there, Tutti Barbarosa, has each class do a project, and it builds on the last class, or not, but it is left for the future students.
Esme Qunhua: My students final project is to create a learning object or activity that can be used by the sl educational community. (at least that is the goal).
Kavon Zenovka: @ Oronoque & Elani - they get start new without any social baggage.
Margaret Michalski: @ AJ- good point
Katie Fenstalker: @ Ellie -- attaching text to objects, how that does change a text?
AJ Brooks: well - there IS a quit button, but it doesn't allow you to restart or sign back in - at least not with the same avatar. :-)
Aquiel Aero: i teach a 100% online environmental science course, and i would never go back to lecturing. The students were too passive in lecture.
lizit Cleanslate: @Olivia one of the courses I teach is all about students developing learning experience for clients (lecturers) who then use it in their classes
Elani Matova: Kavon--nice way of seeing it :-)
Olivia Hotshot: @star - how cool - i am going to look for that!
Stephan Mrigesh: As the wind blows through the gapping hole of my once luxurious trailer I can still read aloud Dante to anyone who will listen in SL ;-P
Kimbeau Surveryor: @Ellie/Katie. Yes, permanent "poster sessions" is interesting. I've read some fascinating presentations of that sort.
Robin Mochi: Olivia, I had one of my doctoral students give a 15 minute demo of building for the rest of our class in SL yesterday
Ellie Brewster: "Poster sessions" really improve their writing
Katie Fenstalker: @ Kimbeau -- say more about "poster sessions" there?
Olivia Hotshot: @Lizit - makes it seem more purposeful i bet!
Stargazer Blazer: You can all send your students to IVC to learn to build, too! :)
Ellie Brewster: that's a great idea, Star
CallieDel Boa: I agree
Esme Qunhua: Great Star.
lizit Cleanslate: @Olivia - yes but also means SL tends to be seen as a tool rather than looking beyond the task to its affordances
Olivia Hotshot: Has anyone had experience with large GE classes and SL integration?
Esme Qunhua: Ellie has 40 students tonight!!!
Kimbeau Surveryor: @Katie. Can't think of a good example right now, but come across them from time to time in educational campuses in SL.
Marc Rexen: Nice thing about posters is being able to stand around and talk about them.
Ellie Brewster: Yes, in about an hour.
Stargazer Blazer: Thanks, we are working on an orientation area as well, and one of our goals is to open an API for IVC, so people can rez directly on our Insight Virtual College island.
Olivia Hotshot: hehehe a place in heaven is yours Ellie =)
AJ Brooks: folks, we are coming up on the end of our hour. This does not mean you have to leave, but we will stop the public transcript at 3:30pm. I just want to remind everyone that I will be going one-on-one with Maggie Marat at next weeks special First of the Month meeting. Also, fly as far north as you can on these islands (MSU) and visit our newly introduced Theorist Project
Oronoque Westland: Jeremy talks about have hundreds in a class
Birdie Newcomb: What's the Theorist project?
Zotarah Shepherd: If teachers of classes in SL would require students learn SL skills before classes start, then they could spend more time on content of their course.
Olivia Hotshot: ty Oronoque -
AJ Brooks: thanks to my four guests: Elani, Ellie, Esme, and Stargazer
Prospero Linden: Zotarah : would that really work?
Elani Matova: Thanks AJ
Olivia Hotshot applauds
Kavon Zenovka: @ Zotarah - we'll get there!
Prospero Linden: I mean, teaching science, it's like pulling teeth to get students to read the textbook before class....
Ellie Brewster: Dr. Doug at OSU has large classes of medical students - he sends them on a tour of the testis & ovary
AJ Brooks: if you need to take off, please don't think twice - but everyone is welcome to stay and continue the excellent conversation
Katie Fenstalker: thanks all
hobbs Constantine: clapping
lizit Cleanslate: Thanks all - it's been good
Kimbeau Surveryor: ** Applause **
Zelq Razorfen: thank you all
Profesora Farigoule: @Zotorah - i have had that idea too - have a way students can self-orient first:)
Robin Mochi: thanks all
Marc Rexen: Bring them to class...then randomly pick one to "talk about the readings."
Margaret Michalski: Thanks!
Ellie Brewster: Really great session, AJ
Birdie Newcomb: clap clap
Pathfinder Linden: take care folks. great discussion!
Margaret Michalski: Thanks AJ!
Grinn Pidgeon: I have to go, but Here's the 3D Bloom's Taxonomy slurl: http://slurl.com/secondlife/Teaching%204/208/175/25
Esme Qunhua: I "waste" one week on teaching SL :-)
Zotarah Shepherd: I would like to provide that for students and teachers also
CallieDel Boa: Yes thank you all
Kavon Zenovka: @ Zotarah - we're seeing bus students cycling into accounting classes who used SL last yr or last semester. It's really cool 4 the instructor who doesn't have 2 start at the beginning w/ everyone.
IzzyLander Karu claps
Olivia Hotshot: photos from today will be at http://www.flickr.com/photos/oliviahotshot/sets/72157613096361294/ - if you are interested
Zotarah Shepherd: Thank you
Stargazer Blazer: Send em over to IVC, we'll orient them!
Marc Rexen: I did similar for a lab course that was failing...jolted the students...most are afraid of looking dumb to their peers.
IzzyLander Karu: fascinating discussion
Birdie Newcomb: Where is IVC?
Olivia Hotshot: Really enjoyed this meeting today!
AJ Brooks: agreed - Izzy
Stargazer Blazer: thanks, AJ
Ellie Brewster: GTG - thanks for inviting me, AJ -- Goodbye everyone
AJ Brooks: thanks to all of you
Kavon Zenovka: thanks - bye!
Oronoque Westland: bye Ellie