Transcript of the 2100 meeting of the Educause Virtual Worlds Constituent Group: Anaheim & Second Life
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: we are about to start
Oronoque Westland: AJ is a one of a kind
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: oh btw we don't have video from Anaheim
Rachelle Munro: Yes, I can hear you
Claudia13 Rossini: hi Iggy...was just told i can hear the VW meeting in Calif from here
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: "for the lack of a camera.... etc."
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: good, Claudia, you are in the right place
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: be sure voice is on and
Decka Mah: Hi Claudia join us at the table
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: you have your mic muted
Cisop Sixpence waves from Second Life
Ignatius Onomatopoeia grins at Anaheim folks
Decka Mah: spare chair beside Ig
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: check your voice settings....you may need to relog if you cannnot hear and voice is on for you
Claudia13 Rossini: Jon...grab a chair at the table
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Hi Jonathon come on down!
Jonathon Dunn: rezzing
Jonathon Dunn: and at the in person meeting, too :)
Rachelle Munro: yeah, Iggy and Olivia!
Claudia13 Rossini: Jon is my 'boss' at Penn in SL...so be reasonably nice to him
Jonathon Dunn: lol. Cause she never is.
Claudia13 Rossini: LOL
Claudia13 Rossini: brb....relogging
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Joe, Iggy...same animal :)
Decka Mah: League of Worlds for OpenSim HyperGrid connected OpenSim worlds see http://www.leagueofworlds.com/
You decline MY CLASSROOM from A group member named AmandaLyn Donogal.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: speak for yourself, AJ :D
Rachelle Munro: LOL
Zotarah Citron: yes
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: my 3rd annual meeting
Rachelle Munro: 2nd annual
Jonathon Dunn: How many people sitting in this virtual room are also in the physical room with AJ? I am.
JeanClaude Vollmar: Me too!
Cornell Drago: not i
Decka Mah: I'm only virtual
Decka Mah waves from Seattle
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: I've not been in person..budget cuts :(
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Hi Marc
Jonathon Dunn: yup. tough stuff Igg
Marc Rexen: Hey.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: oooh paying customers first :)
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: AJ sounds like Linden Lab :P
Marc Rexen: He's sounds better live. :)
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: LOL
Marc Rexen: Looks better too. :)
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: he has hair in SL as do I
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: okay--here comes the big news about LL and price and our future :(
Decka Mah: :( it works on a prim for me
Decka Mah: just show the web page
JeanClaude Vollmar: If you know the trick Decka, send AJ a note about it.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: I even brought an ALT if viewer 2 were needed
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: but I'm chicken to use it for my main avi
Oronoque Westland: my neighbors
Decka Mah: have to use viewer 2 and web on a prim
Elora Habilis: is anyone else having trouble with the audio? really choppy?
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: excellent use of SL
Decka Mah: nice and clear for me
Rachelle Munro: love that example!
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: it's a bit of static but not choppy
Cisop Sixpence: I hear audio ok, but some hi-freq noise on it.
Zotarah Citron: Things that would be very hard, expensive, impossible or dangerous to do in RL.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: get 'em AJ!
JeanClaude Vollmar: How's the inworld voice now?
Claudia13 Rossini: lol Iggy
Elora Habilis: much better
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: and take our inventories esp. what we made with us
Decka Mah: good but with a tiny bit of static in the background
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: AJ is talking the future....walled gardens are not IT
Marc Rexen: You can hear it ok...it's picking up some room noise.
Rachelle Munro: Jokia was a great speaker
Marc Rexen: err, I can hear it ok...both places. :)
Decka Mah: can teleport between all og them except SL *sigh*
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: she was
Claudia13 Rossini: not sure..but inworldz has fixed some major building issues as of last monday
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: they are incompetent and short-sighted, not evil
Decka Mah: Jokay is a great sharer, learner and presenter
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: NB: InWorldz does not permit exports of any sort
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: it's not a REAL OpenSim grid
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: it is well run, by all reports it's also a walled garden
Cisop Sixpence: InWorldz (from my experience) is about 2 years behind SL.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: @Cisop...many grids are 3 years behind but gaining fast
Cisop Sixpence looks forward to that (I'm on OSgrid as well).
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: oh boy. I'd hate to lose the Montclair content, esp. the pyramid
Decka Mah: What does 2 years = in terms of functionality. Voice is the worst thing I have seen
Oronoque Westland: for those with a pot of gold
Decka Mah: the rest seems pretty familiar
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: yeah...ironic we lose voice in front of a national audience
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: I hope schools do not take up LL's offer for 2 years of pricing...in 2 years LL will have sold out
Claudia13 Rossini: i think it may be a server problem Iggy, i noticed it last week
Decka Mah: voice on OpenSims I meant
Oronoque Westland: I have used Skype while on OS
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: How did that work, O?
Cisop Sixpence: Teen grid was planned to be merged as far back as a year ago.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: I think it's recommended for Reaction Grid
Oronoque Westland: as long as your PC can carry the load its fine
Oronoque Westland: I did not use it integrated into the grid
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: we are all professionally dressed, I remind my RL colleagues in California
Oronoque Westland: I have not tried it in the way RG has it set up
Decka Mah: no it is not the only choice
Decka Mah: SL has different roles to OS for different faculties
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: question coming for us
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: okay...for AJ
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: next question....
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: "what do we do now?"
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: good analogy...and Linux dominates the server market, not MS
Jonathon Dunn: poor analogy. I'll say why in person if I get the chance :)
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: deal
Claudia13 Rossini: (he'll get the chance)
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: is the premise that SL = MS a bad one?
Marc Rexen: Agreed.
Jonathon Dunn: no. OpenSim isn't Linux. Its an implementation of older MS code, with some reverse engineering
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: @Jon...I'll yield that well made point. True.
JeanClaude Vollmar: Inworldz?
Cisop Sixpence: Been to InWorldz
Jonathon Dunn: what's the Duke VW? That'd be more like Linux
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Do you folks think that the OpenSim market is not our best direction if we leave SL?
Claudia13 Rossini: inworldz is a newer VW....similar to SL...growing....being recoded
Cisop Sixpence: Maybe in 2 years, but not yet.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: right...no UGC would be hard for us as educators
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: anyone tried Blue Mars?
Claudia13 Rossini: not yet
Oronoque Westland: UGC?
Claudia13 Rossini: that's Jon speaking
Claudia13 Rossini: lol
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: user generated content
Oronoque Westland: ah
Oronoque Westland: ok
Cisop Sixpence has not tried Blue Mars as it does not appear to be OpenSim style world.
Marc Rexen: Yes, have to pre-make all of the content in a program and upload it, then users have to download the sim and relog to then access it.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: the barriers for making UGC in Blue Mars are large for me
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: I need to learn Maya or Blender
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: no in-world building
Claudia13 Rossini: yikes Iggy
Cisop Sixpence: Have friends who can't even run the Blue Mars program.
Marc Rexen: Maya is free for educators with a .edu that are teaching...I have it on this portable.
Oronoque Westland: who has no UGC? sorry, I missed that
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: no Mac client either but they'll have a cloud-based client for all operating systems
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Project Wonderland from Sun--AJ did not know if it had UGC
Oronoque Westland: thanks
Prof Slingshot: i believe that it does/did
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Who's that speaking?
Decka Mah thinks that is Professor Noralunga (Scott Diener)
Decka Mah: of the Uni of Auckland
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: yes, the NZ Grid is amazing in its ability to hypergrid to other edu grids
Prof Slingshot: are you speaking on a stream?
JeanClaude Vollmar: Scott Diener is speaking.
Decka Mah: http://nzvwg.org/
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: we don't have the HR resources and I lack time to learn to run an OS server....pity. it's a great option
Decka Mah: New Zealand Virtual Worlds Grid
Decka Mah: Ignatius you can use a hosting service to run it like ReactionGrid or Jokaydia Gris
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: The VWER group did a field trip to Scott's grid....nicely made and very fast
Decka Mah: Grid even
Marc Rexen: You can rent sims on OS Grid from a provider...I rented 4 at $70/month for all 4...rub is no economy and to get voice, you have to log-in via the Plazas (but it's the same voice as SL).
Decka Mah: So you can just join the education grids like you join SL
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: @Decka...I'm in talks with three builders/coders who have a hosted grid from RG...I'm going to rent one region from them.
Jonathon Dunn: crasherooni
Cisop Sixpence is sorry she must duck out of this meeting for another previously scheduled appointment.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: take care Cisop!
Cisop Sixpence waves
Rachelle Munro: bye Cisop
Decka Mah: good way to get started in OS Ignatius
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: anyone else here closing shop or reducing holdings in SL?
Claudia13 Rossini: not me...though i keep an eye on IW and RG
Jonathon Dunn: I think we (Penn) will both hold tight AND hedge by preparing our builds for possible move to another grid
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: WOOOOT
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Mad Max Rally! [Scott and AJ commit themselves to a road-rally in OpenSim]
Decka Mah waves to Scott
Ignatius Onomatopoeia is Ayatollah of Rock n' Rollah
Elora Habilis: my company won't be coming in to SL, which had been planned
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: @Elora, will you go elsewhere?
Elora Habilis: not sure yet, just looking in to it
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: @Jonathan--good plan. I have to pack up and export over the winter holiday
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: I'm keeping a 512 to use as a sandbox until we migrate
Elora Habilis: @ignatius will just keep my personal stuff here
Claudia13 Rossini: (up side of my making my own textures...grins)
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: yes--still going to keep the account premium until just before renewal :)
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: then no more money to these rascals from me
Elora Habilis: I may keep my personal land here, too many friends
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: "Your World Your Imagination....until we say otherwise"
Elora Habilis: indeed
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: I'm going to contact makers of our favorite content to see if they can give us copies to use in OpenSim, if we promote their work and do not distribute
Decka Mah: another way for contractors to make a few bucks might be to move the objects they made for you
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: builders were *very* generous as we built Usher--and we spent a few hundred US$ with vendors in SL
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: @Decka, that's my thinking. We'll pay them well if they'll bother to help. Many of them have left SL or gone inactive...telling!
Decka Mah: Open Metaverse Currency (OMC) provided by VirWox (http://www.virwox.com/)
Decka Mah: these let you have economies in your OpenSim world
Decka Mah: there are also LOTS of marketplaces for opensim opening up
Claudia13 Rossini: not only transfer off grid...but retain copy mod transfer rights
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: LL missed the boat...their licensing with creators could have made their marketplace the default for all grids and the Linden Dollar the default currency
Jonathon Dunn: right CLaudia. transfer off grid is one dimension of the rights. What rights apply after grid transfer?
Elora Habilis: short-sighted
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: with the proviso that scripts might not convey (or with multiple vesions for creators who can script for other grids)
Claudia13 Rossini: same as apply in SL
Decka Mah: * Rexxed http://www.rexxed.com/ (mainly xml files for upload to opensim via meerkat, open for creators to sell their goods)
* My Opensim http://myopensim.com/ (mainly designed to serve content to the Myopengrid but does have some full perms stuff)
* ReactionGrid's Outpost http://outpost.reactiongrid.com/ (more highend tools that everyday shopping - but includes some great stuff)
* SLapt http://slapt.me/ (which is an independent shopping destination for SL primarily, but allows creators to specify their work as 'for opensim' as well as in SL
* Total Avatar Shop http://www.totalavatarshop.com/ which will deliver to ReactionGrid or Second Life.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: SLCC this year--Philip butters us up for the price rise
Claudia13 Rossini: so say i make a chair...that has no copy, no mod but transfer rights....if you move it to another grid...the chair is still no mod, no copy, but transfer
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Decka, I'll blog that...thanks! And share at tomorrow's VWER
Decka Mah: YW
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: don't know, Claudia..anything I make will be full perm in OS..."steal my junk"
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: what is being done to engage with LL?
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: anyone want to answer that?
Elora Habilis: it used to be that people in SL made full perm stuff
Claudia13 Rossini: that is always your choice. The makers choice Iggy..personally i don't care to give away my hard work...nor do i think Penn would like copies of what i've made for them, and been paid for, floating all over
Decka Mah: The community won't be lost...it should just move house. It uses many other tools to communicate like email lists, blogs, wikis etc
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: assumption seems to be with many in VWER is that Jack Linden is pushing this and the Lab won't listen
Oronoque Westland: still lots of full perm stuff, but the creator may not be you
Decka Mah: http://learning-in-virtual-worlds.wikispaces.com/
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: note that land barons still get the discount for big holdings...project Atlas
Decka Mah: whoops I mean add your response to this wiki http://pricehike.wikispaces.com/
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: that's Jack Linden's pet project...grrrr
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: yes...join that wiki and share your plans
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: when you tell small holders of land not in education "next your tier will rise," they listen
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: has anyone at the table tried dialogue with LL? Office hours?
Claudia13 Rossini: just like the real world Iggy...land price go up, rent goes up....it will take time to stabilise VW's
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Do we even trust them after Jokay, the firings, and this?
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: But Claudia, supply is not an issue here...you can make more land :)
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: there's a quiet crisis on the mainland too. Tons of unsold and abandoned land
Decka Mah: I want control of my property, content, access, connection to others, backup etc
Marc Rexen: So do we plead poverty and seek funds from the recent $20 Million from Melissa and Bill Gates to Educause?
Marc Rexen: Goal would be to jumpstart a .EDU grid.
Oronoque Westland: issue is not just the increases, it is also the loss of trust and the lack of understanding what the planning needs of the educational community are
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: @Marc...Microsoft is invested heavily in Reaction Grid :)
Marc Rexen: I know...meaning they already "know it works."
Decka Mah: Marc since the first wave of the Gates fund is targeting college retention, it might qualify for an education grid fund
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Yes, an edu grid would be wonderful, if a consortium of schools could pull it off
Marc Rexen: The grants limits are sorta low unless we can get someone to run it and someone to host it.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Hiya Chimera
Chimera Cosmos: Hi Iggy
Chimera Cosmos: I'm in the room with AJ
Chimera Cosmos: in RL
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: cool! I was about to ask if you could hear :)
Marc Rexen: So am I Chimera...:)
Chimera Cosmos: was working on my NZ Grid avi
Chimera Cosmos: ah where are you Marc?
Chimera Cosmos: :-)
Marc Rexen: The OS grid is a non-profit at their core.
JeanClaude Vollmar: Go to www.nextgenlearning.com for info on a grant program that supports consortium/collaboration projects.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: 14 around table, for the record
Marc Rexen: Their organizational structure is good, but they need leadership.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: LL underestimates our tenacity to organize when we find something we like :)
Marc Rexen: They do have the hackers, though...and they are smart hackers.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Scott, we need those instructions online
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: I'm getting e-mails asking me "how do I...?"
Decka Mah: @Marc who has the hackers?
Oronoque Westland: I hope there is a way to involve educators without institutional support in these new collaborations
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: O, exactly
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: I'm losing what support I had
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: will pay out of pocket next year
KarenKate Sands: O, thanks.. me too... I lost my support this year
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: times are hard...hearts are not (except at LL)
Marc Rexen: OS Grid does...I watched them work on the grid structure...they are casting out a new version of opensim this weekend.
Decka Mah: Gee that is sad to hear that people are going to be out of pocket to use this *sigh*
Marc Rexen: imprudence is also the hippo replacement...over the year, issues have been addressed.
Marc Rexen: They were able to restore my inventory when it was lost.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: @Decka, I can get a region with my friends...an entire region for less than 20 bucks US a month
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: I can handle that
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: and then with proof-of-concept, apply for funding
Marc Rexen: Go rent a $30/month sim from Simhost and try out OS Grid...it's the non-profit at the core that is the key.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Marc makes a great point
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: We wanted a private grid for our simulation and some builders approached us
Oronoque Westland: sorry, need to go...see you tomorrow at VWER
Chimera Cosmos: My avatar is on the NZ grid (my other avi) but I can't find the sim they are on. heheh
Marc Rexen: They are "not sure" what to do with the non-profit, but that is their ethos.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: tc Oronoque!
Marc Rexen: Paypay is here and there, but there is no "Police" to enforce against content theft.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Oh Scott is showing us poor SLers up again :D
Marc Rexen: Vivox "donates" the 10K/month voice that shows up in the plazas.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia sings "Brother can you spare a Linden?"
Decka Mah: 2 choices in run your own...hosted or self hosted
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: good point, AJ makes here
Decka Mah: If all the colleges made all their content opensource now, we would have a marketplace form heaven
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: so what grids would we go to now if we lost SL today?
Marc Rexen: Reaction Grid for teaching, Inworldz for social.
Decka Mah: ReactionGrid or Jokaydia Grid which is ReeactionGrid hosted anyway
Marc Rexen: OS Grid for the future.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Private Sim for Virtual House of Usher....dunno for social. Probably Blue Mars (when my Mac can run it) and InWorldz
Claudia13 Rossini: i see promise in inworldz Iggy
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: If LL sells out and this grid closes, will we lose critical mass?
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: I do too, Claudia, for socializing
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: but I want to export anything I make..so it's a non-starter until they add that ability
Claudia13 Rossini: better for building...
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: I'm looking forward to touring it
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: in two months I'm to review it for Prim Perfect
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Lalo Telling promised me a look around
Claudia13 Rossini: on that i agree Iggy. We NEED inventory transfer between all VW's
Decka Mah: yep Ig
Rachelle Munro: absolutely, Claudia
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: folks
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: join us tomorrow for VWER at 230-330 SLT
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: the topic is how are we consolidating in SL or moving on?
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: We will share links and plans and resources
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: we'll be right here at this table
Decka Mah shameless plug for League of Worlds for OpenSim HyperGrid connected OpenSim worlds see http://www.leagueofworlds.com/
JeanClaude Vollmar: Thank you all for coming!!! Very exciting time for us and the possibilities are awesome.
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: thanks! Keep those links coming
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: I'll do a transcript soon for our site
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: be sure to visit http://vwer.org
Chimera Cosmos: Jokay's name is invoked often, but I think she has it right and diverges from the discussion today
Chimera Cosmos: Remember she said last week that she is NOT leaving SL
JeanClaude Vollmar: s.diener@auckland.ac.nz
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: Nor am I
Chimera Cosmos: it's a multi grid world :-)
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: but I'm losing my home base
JeanClaude Vollmar: sorry.afj@gmail.come
Decka Mah: s.diener@auckland.ac.nz
Zotarah Citron: afk
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: I'll become a ramblin' man I reckon
Chimera Cosmos: AJ didn't lead the discussion in that direction.
Decka Mah: Thanks humans Thanks avatars
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: thanks JC I'll fix that in the transcript
Rachelle Munro: thanks!
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: thanks to all of you
Chimera Cosmos: and it's his show today ;-)
Claudia13 Rossini: <---is human...just appears as an avatar
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: LOL Claudia
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: okay off to get a beer!
Claudia13 Rossini: grins at Iggy
Ignatius Onomatopoeia: good night and I hope to see you tomrrow
KarenKate Sands: Thanks that was very helpful to those of us inworld!
